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Blade of Mourn
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jun 2006 : 22:46:30
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This has been bothering me for a while... how does one become a Chosen of (insert deity), like the Chosen of Bane or Chosen of Mystra, etc? And how does that effect a character stat-wise? Does anybody know?
Also, I was wondering if anybody had any information on the trial/test of faith that priestesses or other worshippers of Lolth undertake and what it entails?
(For those who might not recognize this right away, I mean the one where failure means being exiled and turned into a drider)
Danke.
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From below the dragon dark comes forth,
Nidhogg flying from Nithafjoll;
The bodies of men on his wings he bears,
The serpent bright:
Malice Striker.
Snorri Sturluson - Grímnismál (Völuspá) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2006 : 23:00:50
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Well Chosen are infused with part of a dieties power, as best I understand it (in effect reducing their own power to some degree, some dieties might do this to prevent asending to Divine rank 21 *wink*). Chosen I do not believe were ever designed to be PCs, instead they should be NPCs that further the dieties dogma and goals.
With the ever expanding list of "core classes and Prcs" it clearly is posible to become something close to a Chosen, Divine Displine comes to mind as one.
So far as far as I know, the test of the Driders (coming of age, or Lolth's chaotic test) has not been set out in any rule or even novel.
Lolth could very well roll the dice, or just have a good or bad day. *wink*
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2006 : 23:06:32
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Well, as to how one becomes a chosen... the Deity Chooses them.
The stat bonuses for Chosen of Mystra and Chosen of Bane have been published in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and Faiths and Pantheons respectively.
The stats for Chosen of Deneir is detailed here...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/deneir
Althought there are several more "Chosens", those are the only 3 that have 3E stats. |
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Vainelus
Seeker
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2006 : 23:20:28
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As mentioned above the stats for Chosen of Mystra and Chosen of Bane are in FRCS.
A character whether NPC or PC cannot simply set out to be a chosen, the deity's choose their chosen very carefully for their own reasons. Read Elminster: the Making of a Mage, if you want to get some idea of how a character is selected to become a Chosen. Obviously Mystra selects her chosen in a different way than other deities, but it gives somewhere to start.
The test that Lolth worshippers had a set level that it occurred at for wizards and clerics in 2ed, I think it was 5th. I have not heard of any updates for it. Also what the test is has never been specified to the best of my knowledge.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 01:04:36
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The various Mystra's Chosen entries and the Chosen of Mystra section in the Heroes' Lorebook provide some insights into the ways in which each of Mystra's Chosen came into their positions. In Qilue's case... her position as Eilistraee's Chosen is also mentioned.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 01:11:39
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I feel it's worthwhile pointing out to that one should never lump Mystra's Chosen together with the rest of the now more apparent Chosen of deities in the 3e FR.
Part of why Mystra's Chosen are unique is because of their role. They balance out Mystra, and store some of her power in case it's needed. They're kinda like "loyal opposition" -- they are loyal to Mystra, but they are not controlled by her, and with them having some of her power, they can act in opposition to her if she gets out of control. They are also assistants of a sort; they work to further the spread of magic, but in a pinch, they can also help to maintain the Weave.
That is why Mystra has Chosen. That is why hers are special. The other Chosen of FR deities, or rather... Divine Champions as I call them, are but pale shadows.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2006 : 15:04:20
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| As to the test for dark elves. There was a dragon magazine article a few years ago. It also gave further tests that happen later and what she does to you if you fail those. Don't remember the issue, but I saw it and thought it was kinda neat. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2006 : 07:00:00
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| Well, there are many deities that are more powerful and as powerful as Mystra. There should be chosen of the like kind and quality to them. Unless Ao puts out a decree saying so, the Gods of the Greater Power should be able to do the same. |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2006 : 11:16:21
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Well, there are many deities that are more powerful and as powerful as Mystra. There should be chosen of the like kind and quality to them. Unless Ao puts out a decree saying so, the Gods of the Greater Power should be able to do the same.
Actually, no. Mystra is the most powerful deity of the Realms, because she is magic, and magic use is so prevalent. |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2006 : 11:51:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Well, there are many deities that are more powerful and as powerful as Mystra. There should be chosen of the like kind and quality to them. Unless Ao puts out a decree saying so, the Gods of the Greater Power should be able to do the same.
Actually, no. Mystra is the most powerful deity of the Realms, because she is magic, and magic use is so prevalent.
I'm going to agree with both of you here. I think that Mystra is the most powerful deity. But I also think that it is fine for other deities to have chosen. Sure the Chosen of Mystra were the first and the ones Ed wanted in the setting, but if you think about the deities, why wouldn't they want to infuse their godly might into a mortal to be their divine representative on Toril?
I know nostalgia takes over an people like origninal the best, but it is not illogical for other deities to have chosen. I actually think the various chosen are a great addition to the realms.
Besides, what would unoriginal scribes like me use as screen names without them? |
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Torkael
Acolyte
39 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2006 : 11:59:03
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Come to think of it does Shar have any Chosen? Especially with her Shadow weave around, she should have someone to keep things alive and counter the Weave-using Chosen.
On an unrelated note, what would Sune's Chosen be like? |
"No, I will not create a song dedicated to dancing dwarves. Especially dwarves worshipping Eilistraee." - Tenasa the bard |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2006 : 12:03:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Torkael
Come to think of it does Shar have any Chosen? Especially with her Shadow weave around, she should have someone to keep things alive and counter the Weave-using Chosen.
On an unrelated note, what would Sune's Chosen be like?
Shar does have a chosen but I believe the person is unnamed and mentioned in the Underdark sourcebook.
Kuje put together a list of canon Chosen, I'm sure you can find it if you do a search.... although it may have been on the WOTC boards where I saw him post it.
And as for a Chosen of Sune, I would read her Dogma in Faiths and Pantheons and just think of a person that embodies that philosophy. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2006 : 13:34:16
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Well, there are many deities that are more powerful and as powerful as Mystra. There should be chosen of the like kind and quality to them. Unless Ao puts out a decree saying so, the Gods of the Greater Power should be able to do the same.
No, there aren't
Ed has said that both Chauntea and Mystra rank as the most powerful deities on Toril.
See both his '04 and '05 replies for discussions about the particular strengths of these two deities, and their portfolios, in relation to the entire pantheon itself.
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Edited by - The Sage on 07 Jun 2006 13:36:38 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2006 : 13:38:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
quote:
Originally posted by Torkael
Come to think of it does Shar have any Chosen? Especially with her Shadow weave around, she should have someone to keep things alive and counter the Weave-using Chosen.
On an unrelated note, what would Sune's Chosen be like?
Shar does have a chosen but I believe the person is unnamed and mentioned in the Underdark sourcebook.
Shar's Chosen has been referenced in Underdark but we know neither his/her name or race.
quote:
Kuje put together a list of canon Chosen, I'm sure you can find it if you do a search.... although it may have been on the WOTC boards where I saw him post it.
Here's Mystra's Chosen -- from my upcoming Candlekeep's Guide to Forgotten Realms FAQ:-
Canon Chosen of Mystra
* Elminster Aumar
* Khelben Arunson
* Storm Silverhand
* Laeral Silverhand
* Alustrial Silverhand
* The Simbul
* Sylune Silverhand
* Qilue Veladorn
* Dove Falconhand
* Noumea Drathchuld -- was the previous Magister (before Talatha Vaerovree on Innarlith, who now occupys the position)
* Alvaerele Tasundrym -- held the position of Magister from 576 DR to 592 DR. She is referred to as "the Silent Chosen". Most do not even know that this Magister exists, but her position now is very important as she acts as guardian for those things that Mystra I wishes to remain unknown (this includes knowledge like where the Srinshee is sleeping, as wel as making certain that human, half-elven, and elven family trees are kept recorded and up-to-date)
* Symrustar Auglamyr -- Steven Schend has told us Symrustar is now deceased
* Sammaster -- no longer a Chosen of Mystra (stripped of his Chosen powers in 875 DR [CotD])
* The Srinshee
* Embrae Aloevan of Ardeep
* Nadrathen -- referred to as "the Rebel Chosen" (and is now also deceased)
And from Kuje's FAQ -
quote:
Bane
Fzoul Chembryl
Cyric
Malik el Sami yn Nasser
Deneir
Cadderly Bonaduce
Pertelope (deceased)
Eilistraee
Qilue Veladorn
Eldath
Ashenford Torinbow
Lady Shadowmoon Crystalembers
Shinthala Deepcrest
Gilgleam
Shuruppak (ExChosen since Gilgleam's death)
Mask
Kesson Rel
Avner of Hartsvale
Erevis Cale
Drasek Riven
Mielikki
Jeryth Phaulkon
Ashenford Torinbow
Lady Shadowmoon Crystalembers
Shinthala Deepcrest
Oghma
Sephris Dwendon
Shar
Underdark said she has one, but name and race wasn't given.
Silvanus
Ashenford Torinbow
Lady Shadowmoon Crystalembers
Shinthala Deepcrest
Talona
The Rotting man (Unapproachable East)
Ubtao
Alisandra Rayburton
Dhlamass Rayburton
Ras Ni
Fipya
Kwalu
Mainu
Ossaw I
Umberlee
Slarkrathel
Malar
Anth-Malar
Lolth
Liriel Baenre (possibly but might be a ExChosen)
Halisstra Melarn, the Lady Penitent
Merrshaulk/Sseth
Pil'it'ith (ExChosen)
Sehanine Moonbow
Embrae Aloevan of Ardeep
Labelas Enoreth
Vartan Hai Sylver
The Seldarine (elven pantheon)
Queen Amlaruil of Evermeet
Ilyrana
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2006 : 17:31:55
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The reason I object to other deities having Chosen is because of the original intent of Mystra's Chosen. They hold some of her power both as a check against her and as an aid to her and the Weave. That's their intent.
I have no problem with other deities have particular champions in whom they've invested some of their power. The thing is, none of them need Chosen the way Mystra does. And the ones that do have so-called "Chosen", their "Chosen" are nothing at all like Mystra's Chosen, save for holding a bit of divine essence -- if they even have that. That's why I'd rather see them called something else -- because they are something else. Call them Champions or Divine Poo-Bahs or something like that. Just don't call them Chosen, because that confuses the issue and makes them seem to be more than they really are.
That is my take on things.  |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2006 : 18:58:35
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I've never felt there really was much use for the introduction of chosen as a general part of each gods manifestation so to speak. That a god elects a champion or a special servant if the need arises I can see as logical, but this is not the same as the servants of Mystra.
As to how one becomes a servant of a god or a chosen I don't think one can set up a standard as the gods are too diverse to work in a single way. If you look at gods like Malar and Siamorphe, how differently wouldn't these powers treat and command a servant?
In many ways the focus on the likeness with the chosen of Mystra blocks for more unique godly servants who may be in the gods service.It could be a holy flower or an oracle bird and one could get as many adventures and as much lore out of them as one gets from one more chosen.
The only one I can to a degree understand and see as fitting in the realmsian picture is Fzoul of Bane/xvims chosen and then only for the reason that it has been mentioned before that Bane attempted to coup parts of the other gods followers and portfolios. I can see him experimenting with the idea of a "chosen", even if this has no similarities with Mystras servant.
Except for this one case I don't see how and why it benefits the realms to introduce a number of extremely powerful and divinely influenced characters just because one god has them and therefore everyone should.
Then again, there seems to be a strong interest in chosen of each god and I can therefore see why they end up being introduced to the setting, but I still feel it becomes sort of an arms race between the religions. Thats just my opinion.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2006 : 00:39:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's why I'd rather see them called something else -- because they are something else. Call them Champions or Divine Poo-Bahs or something like that.
Indeed.
As I said above -- "Divine Champion" would work well enough for any. Or any other title of specialty that doesn't reflect a connection to the special nature of Mystra's own Chosen. There's no basis for the connection between the roles of the other "Chosen" of the various deities and Mystra's Chosen -- so the titles should be different.
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Edited by - The Sage on 08 Jun 2006 00:40:47 |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 23:39:22
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My understanding is that the Magister is Mystra's "champion," not any of the Chosen.
I would like to know how many Chosen (of Mystra's and other deities) have "gone rogue," as Sammaster did. |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2006 : 02:07:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
My understanding is that the Magister is Mystra's "champion," not any of the Chosen.
Indeed.
The Magister is, basically, the personal champion of Mystra. They are magic users (only one Magister can exist at a time) selected by Mystra to promote the Art -- through both the tasks they are each directed to perform and their individual mastery of magic -- in the Realms.
And for those with an interest in the position of Magister... more on the individual Magisters and their history can be gleaned from the 2e Secrets of the Magister tome and Magic of Faerun.
And Ed discusses a little of the differences between the office of Magister and Mystra's Chosen in his '05 replies.
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Chosen of ________
