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Myssa Rei
Acolyte
Philippines
22 Posts |
 Posted - 19 May 2006 : 05:54:45
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Browsing through my copy of Power of Faerun (a veritable source of current lore, it is), I noticed some of the recent developments regarding the standoff between the government of Amn and the ogre mage-led armies of the Sythillisian empire. One detail in particular made me raise an eyebrow in that conflict, which is the Army of the Three Stars... A crusade composed of Selunites (no surprise there, since they were forced to abandon one of their major abbeys to the ogres), Cyricists (!), and Talona-worshippers (!!).
Talk about a stretch, but how did the three churches find enough common ground to even present a unified front? It certainly seems like an alliance of convenience to me...
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Never underestimate the power of a good story. |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2006 : 12:48:25
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| A storyline I am tracking with much interest. You know the old saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend..." It is truly an alliance of expediency and nothing more. Even though PoF does not go into a great bit of detail, I assumed that these churches banded together simply to recover lost ground and stop the ogres, since Amn has been inadequate to that task. I also have trouble believing that these religions could find enough common ground to unite. I would guess it is (mostly) a humans vs. monsters, lets save our race? from this evil horde..?.. |
ShadowJack |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2006 : 12:51:36
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| Another thought, Where is the churches of the Triad; Tyr, Torm and Ilmater? I would think they would be rallying to throw back the Sythillisian army. Are not the churches of the Triad active throughout the Lands of Intrigue? |
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nb_nmare
Acolyte
United Kingdom
32 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2006 : 13:30:33
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The Triad is big in Tethyr and Ilmater has a strong influence in Ilmater, but the three deities have a pretty minimal presence in Amn. The Army of the Three stars is indeed a weird mixture though; I'd make more sense for it to involve the churches of Tempus and Helm rather than Cyric and Talona.
Incidentally, with the Selunites actively crusading against the Sythillisians, I wouldn't be surprised to see the local temple of Shar (based in the Smallteeth) offering its services to the ogres.
In my own vision of the events of this war, I picture Valkur's temple-ship (I forget the name, but its home port is Athkatla) leading the fight against the Sythillisian's pirate allies.
Umberlee also has (or had) a temple in Murann, and I'd love to find out what became of that.
EDIT: grammar |
Edited by - nb_nmare on 19 May 2006 16:19:32 |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2006 : 15:00:56
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NB,
Very good point about the church of Shar, I would be surprised if they did not get involved. I do not remember anything about Valkur's temple-ship. Where can info on this be found? It would be a great twist to have them war againist the pirates... I also agree that Helm and Tempus would be more logical allies. I believe that Cyric has temples in the region of the Ogre army, does Talona? |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2006 : 16:18:00
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Valkur's temple-ship is mentioned in Powers & Pantheons and is called the Schooner of the Seas. It usually sails between Waterdeep and Calimport, but it has visited such distant locations as Kara-tur, Zakhara, Maztica and Nimbral.
As far as I know there are no canonical temples of Talona in the region; perhaps those in the Army of the Three Stars are survivors from Castle Trinity. There is a temple of Loviatar in the Smallteeth though, which opens up yet more possibilities.
A bit more info: Though Helm seems to be popular amongst members of the Amnian army (see the Helmites in Maztica plotline), he doesn't actually seem to have any Amnian temples in canon Realmslore. He does have a chapel in the Golden Fortress, along with Torm, Tyr and Tempus.
Eshpurta must be a popular place, as Tempus and Ilmater (I forgot about that one when talking about his followers' minimal presence in Amn) both have temples there too |
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Myssa Rei
Acolyte
Philippines
22 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2006 : 06:19:02
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...Which makes the alliance all the more stranger. And not only that, for an alliance of convenience, it's incredibly long-lived, don't you think (it's still united up to the start of the Stinger War)?
I agree with both of you, it would have made more sense for the Helmites, Waukeenar (whose bailiwick is Amn anyway) and, well, other good-aligned martial faiths to form an alliance and launch a crusade (especially if we take into consideration the occupation of several cities by evil giant-kin). Add in the followers of Tempus, who really are into these kinds of thing. Yet here we are, with one goodly faith allied with two very evil ones.
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Never underestimate the power of a good story. |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2006 : 00:41:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Myssa Rei
Browsing through my copy of Power of Faerun (a veritable source of current lore, it is), I noticed some of the recent developments regarding the standoff between the government of Amn and the ogre mage-led armies of the Sythillisian empire. One detail in particular made me raise an eyebrow in that conflict, which is the Army of the Three Stars... A crusade composed of Selunites (no surprise there, since they were forced to abandon one of their major abbeys to the ogres), Cyricists (!), and Talona-worshippers (!!).
Talk about a stretch, but how did the three churches find enough common ground to even present a unified front? It certainly seems like an alliance of convenience to me...
During the Peasant's War in Germany, Martin Luther called upon his followers to join forces with Church armies to defeat the peasants. Apparently the thought of poor peasants looting the castles of the rich was apalling enough for the Lutherans and the Catholics to find common ground. The Sythillisians pose a threat to the property and stability (and property) and power and worship (and property) of all three of the churches, alignments and dogmas notwithstanding.
So saith Jamallo Kreen, Friend of Religion!
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2006 : 20:27:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Myssa Rei
Browsing through my copy of Power of Faerun (a veritable source of current lore, it is), I noticed some of the recent developments regarding the standoff between the government of Amn and the ogre mage-led armies of the Sythillisian empire. One detail in particular made me raise an eyebrow in that conflict, which is the Army of the Three Stars... A crusade composed of Selunites (no surprise there, since they were forced to abandon one of their major abbeys to the ogres), Cyricists (!), and Talona-worshippers (!!).
Talk about a stretch, but how did the three churches find enough common ground to even present a unified front? It certainly seems like an alliance of convenience to me...
That is a bit stretching there, certainly :)
In our high-level campaign, our Paladin of Helm gathered a holy crusade of the followers of Helm, Tempus, Lathander, Selūne, and Tymora. We named this small army of crusaders (150 faithful followers and mercenaries) "The Fist and Fury" (emphasis on the faiths of Tempus and Helm, naturally :) |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2006 : 09:39:07
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| This alliance of convenience seems to unrealistic to me. I can`t imagine a selunite working with a worshipper of Talona or a cyricist without going for their throats at the first opportunity, or vice versa. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2006 : 12:50:58
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| A very good point Jamallo. That is what I have thought about it all along, simply a matter of us vs. them and we have to save our pieces of the Amnian pie... Still, I think the authors could have picked a more believeable alliance... As stated earlier, an alliance with the church of Waukeen, Helm or Tempus makes more sense. |
ShadowJack |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2006 : 12:53:59
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Another point,
I really think the majority of Selune's priests would view the clergy of the two aforementioned churches as no better than the ogres of the Sythillisian horde... |
ShadowJack |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2006 : 21:39:32
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Another point,
I really think the majority of Selune's priests would view the clergy of the two aforementioned churches as no better than the ogres of the Sythillisian horde...
I thought that the Cyricists were allied with the Sythisillian horde? At least the faithful of the Twin Towers? |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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nb_nmare
Acolyte
United Kingdom
32 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2006 : 22:30:31
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Yes, but the two Amnian sects of Cyric hate each other, hence the Twin Tower Cyricists are allied with the Sythillisians, and the Mountain of Skulls Cyricists with the Amnian government. This occured way back in the Lands of Intrigue set  . |
Edited by - nb_nmare on 23 May 2006 22:31:55 |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2006 : 00:42:24
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Another point,
I really think the majority of Selune's priests would view the clergy of the two aforementioned churches as no better than the ogres of the Sythillisian horde...
Those who have a vision of "the Church, militant and triumphant" may be willing to dissemble and smile in the presence of the Heathen, even as they make plans with their commanders to attack their erstwhile allies the moment the Sythillisians go down. I have no doubt at all that the Cyricists are planning to betray their allies as a matter of dogmatic purity. The Selunites might be just as willing to betray them in the name of (*cough*) "Good" -- with a capital "G," of course!
There is one matter to bear in mind, though: the soldiers of the allies are going to be primarily humans (or at least humanoids), and many of their enemies won't be. It would be easy to convince oneself that allying with religious rivals of the same species is infinitely better than allowing "monsters" to take what one regards as one's own divinely granted birthright. At least one knows how a member of one's own species will think, and their treachery will be a predictable thing, whereas there's no telling what a "monster" may do.
"Better the enemy you know than the one you don't...."
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2006 : 21:53:46
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quote:
Originally posted by nb_nmare
Yes, but the two Amnian sects of Cyric hate each other, hence the Twin Tower Cyricists are allied with the Sythillisians, and the Mountain of Skulls Cyricists with the Amnian government. This occured way back in the Lands of Intrigue set .
Ah, I see it now Our longest running campaign is (currently) taking place in Amn, so that is why I have tried to keep myself (as a player) "in the dark" about all the Realmslore that concerns the Lands of Intrigue.
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"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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The Army of the Three Stars
