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Waldham
Seeker
83 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Apr 2006 : 15:55:12
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quote:
Selu'Kiira
A major version of these gems are the Selu#146;Kiira, the High
Lore Gems. Made exclusively from rainbow tourmalines, these
long, faceted, sparkling crystals are larger and more ornate
than standard tel#146;kiira. These gems also tell tales of their
power and knowledge by their color shifts; with each bearer,
the gems absorb the long centuries of discipline of each, and
the cumulative years of experience darken the gems. The
selu#146;kiira begin life in hues of blue, then age to green and later
to black, then brown, and orange. After a selu#146;kiira contains
more than 3,000 years of stored knowledge, it brightens to a
blistering red, its final and most powerful state.
These gems hold not only many centuries of knowledge
about magic, but they hold the secrets of High Magic. Anyone
donning a selu#146;kiira endures the acclimation process as described
above, though in order to access knowledge of High
Magic, the wearer must also meet the minimums of a High
Mage student. The unknowing or unready wearing of a
selu#146;kiira is far more dangerous than meddling with a standard
kiira. If the person attempting to wear the High Lore
Gem is unworthy, one of two effects occur: Nonelf users are
blasted to ashes, their heads exploding from too much
knowledge that must remain hidden from N#146;Tel#146;Quess; and
unworthy elven and half-elven bearers become possessed by
the presences of the gem in a powerful magic jar effect (regardless
of the character#146;s Intelligence, saving throw vs. this
effect suffers a +5 penalty), and their bodies are used by the
gem#146;s presences to cast spells and transport themselves to
their former homes or to other High Mage strongholds. After
that, their minds are wiped of all memory of contact with the
selu#146;kiira and the individuals are transported back to their
last location of memory by a trusted mage or High Mage who
claims the High Lore gem; the claimant of the gem may not
wear it but serves as its caretaker until a High Mage chooses
to accept the responsibilities of wearing one.
can a character learn the High Magic with Selu'Kiira ?
Thanks for your future help.
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2006 : 16:14:03
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| Yes, if they are found worthy and have the prereq's to do so. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2006 : 16:35:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Waldham
Can a character learn High Magic with Selu'Kiira ?
Thanks for your future help.
The description you provided re these High Loregems is from the 2E product "Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves". In 2E, High Magic was a variant spellcasting system. In 3E, High Magic is now a form of epic spellcasting. albeit with considerable lore and history attached to it. Similarly, while High Magic and being a High Mage is now a term of nomenclature, there is a High Mage prestige class in the "Races of Faerūn" accessory. So, to answer your question, a high loregem of itself will not grant you the ability to wield High Magic (i.e. epic magic). However, if as Kuje said, you have the prerequisites to take the epic spellcasting feat you can conceivably use a High Loregem to assist you in learning epic spells particular to elves and High Magic. So, you might learn something of High magic but you would not necessarily become a High Mage.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2006 : 20:48:08
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i believe that Selukiira would give an accepted elf who has at least 20 levels in an arcane spellcasting calss and can cast 9th level spells.... enough xp to put him or her halfway into the next level and s/he takes that level in the class elven high mage without meeting the approval of hte otehr high mages.... however s/he cannot advance in high mage levels until she or he meets all requirements.
this is just IMHO |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Cyandor
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2006 : 18:53:48
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Far be it for me to contradict a luminary like Mr. Krashos, but I believe that some recent realms fiction as well as comments by Richard Baker contradict the contention that a selu'kiira would not allow you to cast epic spells if you lacked the other prerequisites.
In Richard Baker's thread he talks about selu'kiira and their powers.
SPOILER LAST MYTHAL SERIES ***********
The lead character in Richard Baker's Last Mythal series, Araevin, obtain a selu'kiira (called the Nightstar) and gains access to High Magic. He also picks up three tel'kiira (with spells) along the way to obtaining the selu'kiira.
Quote to follow from page 2 of 0 of the Richard Baker thread:
"1) Yes, the spell of mythal-shaping that Araevin casts at the end of the book is an epic magic spell. If I had to guess, I'd presume that Araevin's adventures in Book 1 boosted him from 14th-15th on up to 17th or 18th, and then the Nightstar kicked his spellcasting a couple of levels past that, as selukiira are said to be able to do. Of course, he hasn't had much of an opportunity to learn a great number of new spells; he picked up a few 8th-9th level spells from the telkiira and the Nightstar, but the real prize in the Nightstar are the epic spells. Epic spells (High Magic) are incredibly expensive to research and learn, so I think it's a pretty nifty benefit of a selukiira if it can teach you some epic spells without the incredible expense in gold and XP. Or so it would go in game terms, anyway."
So, presumably in 3.0/3.5 selu'kiira retain their ability to add levels to a wizard as well as grant access to some epic spells. Also, the selu'kiira obtained by Aervin (and all selu'kiira) also grant the Epic Spellcasting feat to allow the casting of the epic spells obtained as demonstrated by Aervin's immediate casting of epic spells upon obtaining the selu'kiira.
One other note, Lost Empires of Faerun have the stats for tel'kiira and the Ruler's Blade. In 2nd Ed., the Ruler's Blade was said to hold 3 selu'kiira and thus granted the weilder the ability to cast high magic. Eltagrim was listed as a high level fighter and a high mage with the stats for high mage presumably coming from the Ruler's Blade. The 3.5 write up of the Ruler's Blade seriously nerfed the selu'kiira in the Ruler's Blade (I would argue that the benefit is less than that of tel'kiira stats from the same book).
Personally, I view the revised stats for the Ruler's Blade as a mistake.
I believe that a selu'kiira in 3.5 would provide the following minimum benefits:
1. exp sufficient for advancement to epic level
2. the Epic Spellcasting feat
3. one or more epic spells
I would argue that it should grant you exp and the necessary feats to give you one level of the High Mage prestige class detailed in Races of Faerun. However, since High Magic is now synomous with epic magic, access to the High Mage prestige class is not essential. |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2006 : 19:04:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyandor
Far be it for me to contradict a luminary like Mr. Krashos, but I believe that some recent realms fiction as well as comments by Richard Baker contradict the contention that a selu'kiira would not allow you to cast epic spells if you lacked the other prerequisites.
I believe that a selu'kiira in 3.5 would provide the following minimum benefits:
1. exp sufficient for advancement to epic level
2. the Epic Spellcasting feat
3. one or more epic spells
yes i agree that based off of the last mythal series it is reinforced that selukiira grant u high magic
however i think u have to already be an arcane caster
and it would grant u high mage cals bc it is elven high magic itsteaching u not just epic magic but idk its complicated.... maybe we could have another thread trying to update selukiira into 3.5 or w/e |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Chiliad Khilat
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2014 : 02:58:29
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| I know this is an old topic. I haven't read the Last Mythal series. I assume the Tel'Kiira provided clues to the location of the Selu'Kiira. Were they worn and accessed sequentially? Or all at the same time? Just wondering how many kiira could be worn on the forehead at once. I'm an olde 2e player, so the idea of equipment slots do not really concern me if equipment makes sense to be worn together. |
Chiliad of the House of Khilat |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2482 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2014 : 03:39:10
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What, all of them?
And how? Given that the target is more than mobile, and the thing is lore-gem - a magical direct-to-mind notebook with some additional services. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Chiliad Khilat
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2014 : 03:50:14
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| So, they were used one after the other? Then eventually replaced by the Selu'Kiira? |
Chiliad of the House of Khilat |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2482 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2014 : 04:10:26
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| What do you mean? Are books used one after the other? I suppose so - most folk don't read two at once. Then again, there are exclusions. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Chiliad Khilat
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2014 : 04:14:42
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| If Araevin found 3 Tel'Kiira on the way to getting the Selu'Kiira, did he use each of the Tel'Kiira one after the other in order to find the Selu'Kiira? |
Chiliad of the House of Khilat |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1883 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2014 : 13:27:11
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He didn't wear them all at once. That said, there are items with multiple tel'kiira in them (including crowns)...but I think you could only access info in one of them at a time (even if you can wear multiple kiira simultaneously I would still rule this).
The Rule Blade is a unique item. It doesn't actually make the wielder a spellcaster...it just allows the wielder knowledge and the ability to access spells through the gems. I don't think Eltargrim was capable of casting arcane spells unless he had the blade in hand. So, in effect, it was like a magic staff capable of casting epic spells (something that is prohibited by the rules...but hey, it IS an artifact after all).
Concerning the Araevin and the Nightstar: One of Araevin's mentors stated he had no doubt that he could enter the ranks of the High Mages immediately insofar as capability was concerned (which lead me to believe, at the time, that Araevin was at least level 20)...it was just that Araevin was too impatient. That's why he had not been allowed to train as a High Mage.
When he gained the Nightstar and mastered it, Araevin was capable of casting High Magic immediately WITHOUT the assistance of other High Mages (this makes him superior to other High Mages, btw). It is one of the reasons why the others feared him by the end of the series. He had become one of them without being under their control/guidance. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2482 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2014 : 16:16:41
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
The Rule Blade is a unique item. It doesn't actually make the wielder a spellcaster...it just allows the wielder knowledge and the ability to access spells through the gems. I don't think Eltargrim was capable of casting arcane spells unless he had the blade in hand.
The Ruler's Blade (with selu'kiira of Oacenth, Jhyrennstar and Sakrattars) automatically allows its bonded wielders to work rituals, learn High Magic, if they want to, and run Rituals of Complement alone (though apparently without any other benefits of having secondary casters).
Eltargrim's stats (the Opening or later, apparently) were F25/W19, so he was very much a spellcaster on his own. Maybe he couldn't use High Magic on his own, but for any other purpose he was a High Mage, too. Not sure about "in hand" either, since after claiming those blades are bound to the wielder and summonable at will.
quote:
When he gained the Nightstar and mastered it, Araevin was capable of casting High Magic immediately WITHOUT the assistance of other High Mages (this makes him superior to other High Mages, btw).
High Magic includes "Rituals of Slitude".
The rest normally can't be cast alone... but that's exactly what the Ruler's Blade did. Thus, some selu'kiira may be modified to count as dummy "secondary casters".
Rituals of Complement need at least 3 casters - still one short. Araevin got something off a celestial from Arvandor, maybe it counts as one more dummy secondary spellcaster for the purpose of rituals?
...aside of Richard Baker's love of making characters uber-powerful, that is.  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12093 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2014 : 23:53:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyandor
Far be it for me to contradict a luminary like Mr. Krashos, but I believe that some recent realms fiction as well as comments by Richard Baker contradict the contention that a selu'kiira would not allow you to cast epic spells if you lacked the other prerequisites.
In Richard Baker's thread he talks about selu'kiira and their powers.
SPOILER LAST MYTHAL SERIES ***********
The lead character in Richard Baker's Last Mythal series, Araevin, obtain a selu'kiira (called the Nightstar) and gains access to High Magic. He also picks up three tel'kiira (with spells) along the way to obtaining the selu'kiira.
Quote to follow from page 2 of 0 of the Richard Baker thread:
"1) Yes, the spell of mythal-shaping that Araevin casts at the end of the book is an epic magic spell. If I had to guess, I'd presume that Araevin's adventures in Book 1 boosted him from 14th-15th on up to 17th or 18th, and then the Nightstar kicked his spellcasting a couple of levels past that, as selukiira are said to be able to do. Of course, he hasn't had much of an opportunity to learn a great number of new spells; he picked up a few 8th-9th level spells from the telkiira and the Nightstar, but the real prize in the Nightstar are the epic spells. Epic spells (High Magic) are incredibly expensive to research and learn, so I think it's a pretty nifty benefit of a selukiira if it can teach you some epic spells without the incredible expense in gold and XP. Or so it would go in game terms, anyway."
So, presumably in 3.0/3.5 selu'kiira retain their ability to add levels to a wizard as well as grant access to some epic spells. Also, the selu'kiira obtained by Aervin (and all selu'kiira) also grant the Epic Spellcasting feat to allow the casting of the epic spells obtained as demonstrated by Aervin's immediate casting of epic spells upon obtaining the selu'kiira.
One other note, Lost Empires of Faerun have the stats for tel'kiira and the Ruler's Blade. In 2nd Ed., the Ruler's Blade was said to hold 3 selu'kiira and thus granted the weilder the ability to cast high magic. Eltagrim was listed as a high level fighter and a high mage with the stats for high mage presumably coming from the Ruler's Blade. The 3.5 write up of the Ruler's Blade seriously nerfed the selu'kiira in the Ruler's Blade (I would argue that the benefit is less than that of tel'kiira stats from the same book).
Personally, I view the revised stats for the Ruler's Blade as a mistake.
I believe that a selu'kiira in 3.5 would provide the following minimum benefits:
1. exp sufficient for advancement to epic level
2. the Epic Spellcasting feat
3. one or more epic spells
I would argue that it should grant you exp and the necessary feats to give you one level of the High Mage prestige class detailed in Races of Faerun. However, since High Magic is now synomous with epic magic, access to the High Mage prestige class is not essential.
Why do you assume that he wasn't already of a level high enough to cast epic magic? Why do you assume that the gem gave him the feat rather than his studying of the epic magic finally causing him to have a "breakthrough" to simulate his choosing the feat to cast epic magic? After all, if a mage had only known and cast 2nd level spells and he hits 5th lvl and studies a captured spellbook that has fireball in it and can suddenly understand it, you don't assume that the spellbook gave him experience. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Chiliad Khilat
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2014 : 04:44:24
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
He didn't wear them all at once. That said, there are items with multiple tel'kiira in them (including crowns)...but I think you could only access info in one of them at a time (even if you can wear multiple kiira simultaneously I would still rule this).
Thank you for answering my question. I thought it could make for an interesting game hook with clues spread across multiple gems, but I was wondering about requiring interaction between multiple gems to solve a riddle. I knew some magic items have multiple kiira. I was thinking about the blades, but had forgotten about the crown by the time I ran across this thread. |
Chiliad of the House of Khilat |
Edited by - Chiliad Khilat on 05 Mar 2014 04:46:07 |
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[Cormanthyr : Empires of the Elves] Selu'Kiira
