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Chataro
Learned Scribe
Singapore
114 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 10:23:14
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Anyone here finds that forgotten realm and your opinions clash? E.g. i know of some who thinks that drizzt is too low level or that Elaith craulnober is not NE.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 10:24:34
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Often. But then again, why is my opinion better or more 'correct' than anyone else's? Simply, it isn't.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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silverwizard
Seeker
Greece
76 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 11:06:42
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| All the time. FR is a highly detailed setting, with much information available to anyone interested. That means that one has more opportunities to disagree with "official" stuff (because there's so much of it, and it is only expected that not everybody will be satisfied with everything). But as G.K. said, opinions are just that, nothing more. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 11:43:55
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| To have a homogenous world it would, in its entirety, be penned by one single author, and even then you might have random heroes/villains rapidly change eye color etc. Ed Greenwood's vision is ... well ... his. I might have a different one, but I doubt WotC would install a continuity director to the realms just so that it all adds up. (would be a very nice thing tho) |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 20:11:25
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Not including retcons, there's a few things in established Realmslore that I disagree with... To name a few:
Pretty much the entire RotA trilogy (good idea, horrible execution)
the return of Bane (Xvim was cooler!)
I don't like the idea of an orc kingdom, or the way Obould was so much more powerful than anyone he fought
the fact that the destruction of Zhentil Keep didn't have longer-lasting effects (it was like a flat tire, instead of totalling the car)
the fact that the Manshoon Wars weren't followed up on
the fact that the Harper Schism wasn't followed up on
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2006 : 03:20:36
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I know for a fact there are tons of folks who disagree (often vehemently) with established Realmslore and/or game stats provided for NPCs, etc...which is fine.
But I think it's kind of a dodge to just say "opinions are nothing but that..."
There is a lot more reasoning that goes on behind the scenes when it comes to design decisions --whether it be for Realmslore or Game Stats-- because many game designers have shown (or publicly stated) that they don't just do things on a whim.
Because this is true, it makes sense that if you can find the designer(s) in question and ask him or her (nicely) what he or she thought when they wrote XYZ about the Realms, you can learn why they did what they did.
If you learn why, then at the very least you can gain a better understanding of why a decision was made; at best you can come away much smarter about both the Realms and Game Mechanics, and how the two intersect/interrelate with each other.
That said, one of the beauties of the game is that you can change anything and everything to suit your tastes as a DM. Canon Realmslore must always bow down before DM caveat.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldnt believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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silverwizard
Seeker
Greece
76 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2006 : 11:22:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
But I think it's kind of a dodge to just say "opinions are nothing but that..."
It was not my intention to offend anybody, and I apologise if I did. What I wanted to say was that someone's opinion of something may be totally different, or even the opposite, to someone else's opinion about the same thing, especially when we are talking about so huge a setting as the Realms. However, that doesn't mean that either opinion is wrong. |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2006 : 11:37:47
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I'm not very fond of the Time of Troubles (mostly because of the silly Ao), but have decided to include it in the game instead of changing the established material. But I never mention Ao, and I doubt many of the players in my game know about him.
I agree with Ed take on historical cultures, so I tone down the egyptian references when dealing with Mulholrand and so on. |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2006 : 13:17:42
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Often. But then again, why is my opinion better or more 'correct' than anyone else's? Simply, it isn't.
-- George Krashos
Aye, maybe not, but I think your opinions and ideas are still highly regarded and appreciated here at Candlekeep   (I wish I could have a bottled George, or a George of the lamp a la genie, that I could use at my whim - what a perverse idea  ) |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2006 : 13:45:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
I'm not very fond of the Time of Troubles (mostly because of the silly Ao), but have decided to include it in the game instead of changing the established material. But I never mention Ao, and I doubt many of the players in my game know about him.
Actually, that's not terribly far from the established material. Since the Time of Troubles, Ao has been trying to fade from the knowledge of Realmsfolk. He was only really known about in Waterdeep, where he showed up at the end. So a bunch of Waterdhavians saw him, but that's about it for the wider Realms. And since then, he's not paid any attention to mortals, save for one thing: anywhere that his name is written down, it fades away.
Ao does not want to be known in the Realms. So excluding him from a campaign isn't changing anything, it's keeping with the established lore. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Apr 2006 13:45:31 |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2006 : 13:57:53
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| He still bugs me. |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2006 : 14:00:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
I agree with Ed take on historical cultures, so I tone down the egyptian references when dealing with Mulholrand and so on.
But then again, whilst most Realms cultures are merely similarly to Earth-based cultures, the people of Mulhorand actually are Egyptians ;). |
Edited by - nbnmare on 09 Apr 2006 14:01:19 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2006 : 15:01:08
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quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
I agree with Ed take on historical cultures, so I tone down the egyptian references when dealing with Mulholrand and so on.
But then again, whilst most Realms cultures are merely similarly to Earth-based cultures, the people of Mulhorand actually are Egyptians ;).
That would explain the way they walk...  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2006 : 15:48:37
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quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
I agree with Ed take on historical cultures, so I tone down the egyptian references when dealing with Mulholrand and so on.
But then again, whilst most Realms cultures are merely similarly to Earth-based cultures, the people of Mulhorand actually are Egyptians ;).
But egyptians that has spent oh, I don't know, 5741 years (in 1375 DR) in a very different place than ancient Egypt. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Kajehase on 09 Apr 2006 15:50:46 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2006 : 16:18:40
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quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
I agree with Ed take on historical cultures, so I tone down the egyptian references when dealing with Mulholrand and so on.
But then again, whilst most Realms cultures are merely similarly to Earth-based cultures, the people of Mulhorand actually are Egyptians ;).
Except most of the Faerun cities/nations/etc are not Earth-based, except for the places that TSR tacked on. Cormyr isn't based on England or France for example. It's just Cormyr with it's own laws, history, etc. Again, except for the places TSR tacked on that are to close to our history and cultures. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2006 : 19:24:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Cormyr isn't based on England or France for example. It's just Cormyr with it's own laws, history, etc.
It's kind of a double edged sword, in a way. Cormyr is its own place, yet it borrows from the real-world wholesale in some respects* --which is unavoidable, given the nature of a Fantasy Setting already loosely based on our world.
J. Grenemyer
* "...Cormyr and most other realms of Faerūn follow the "classic" rules of real-world British heraldry as administered by the College of Arms." Power of Faerūn, page 102. |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldnt believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2006 : 20:02:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Cormyr isn't based on England or France for example. It's just Cormyr with it's own laws, history, etc.
It's kind of a double edged sword, in a way. Cormyr is its own place, yet it borrows from the real-world wholesale in some respects* --which is unavoidable, given the nature of a Fantasy Setting already loosely based on our world.
J. Grenemyer
* "...Cormyr and most other realms of Faerūn follow the "classic" rules of real-world British heraldry as administered by the College of Arms." Power of Faerūn, page 102.
Okay? And? Burrowed from and being based on is two different things. As I said, Faerun is mostly not based on real-world places, except for the places that TSR tacked on. So, I don't know why you are trying to dispute this. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 09 Apr 2006 20:21:32 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2006 : 21:26:28
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| Kuje, let it go. You're never-ending defense of Faerūn not resembling anything European is tiring and pointless. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2006 : 22:51:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And since then, he's not paid any attention to mortals, save for one thing: anywhere that his name is written down, it fades away.]
Hello-
I'm curious where this little snippet is revealed - as I dont specifically remember reading it anywhere.
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2006 : 23:42:05
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quote:
Originally posted by KujeExcept most of the Faerun cities/nations/etc are not Earth-based, except for the places that TSR tacked on. Cormyr isn't based on England or France for example. It's just Cormyr with it's own laws, history, etc. Again, except for the places TSR tacked on that are to close to our history and cultures.
Which is precisely why I chose the phrase "similar to" rather than "based on". Two very different things . |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 00:17:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Kuje, let it go. You're never-ending defense of Faerūn not resembling anything European is tiring and pointless.
Sorry Alaundo,
I had to comment here.
My defense? Okay. Funny that that defense has been repeatedly stated by Richard Baker, Steven Schend, Eric Boyd, Ed Greenwood, Elaine Cunningham, and others. Yes, it's just "my" defense. Whatever dude. And your never-ending defense that it is, is just as tiring. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 10 Apr 2006 00:18:50 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 00:18:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And since then, he's not paid any attention to mortals, save for one thing: anywhere that his name is written down, it fades away.]
Hello-
I'm curious where this little snippet is revealed - as I dont specifically remember reading it anywhere.
Dhomal
I believe it's in the City of Splendors box set in the discussion of the hall that the city bought that used to be a temple of Ao. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 00:23:46
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quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
quote:
Originally posted by KujeExcept most of the Faerun cities/nations/etc are not Earth-based, except for the places that TSR tacked on. Cormyr isn't based on England or France for example. It's just Cormyr with it's own laws, history, etc. Again, except for the places TSR tacked on that are to close to our history and cultures.
Which is precisely why I chose the phrase "similar to" rather than "based on". Two very different things .
And I don't agree that most cultures in Faerun are even similiar to our cultures because they aren't, except, as I said, for the parts that TSR tacked on. Especially since most of the game designers and authors disagree with that as well. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 10 Apr 2006 00:25:44 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 00:35:25
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And to get this on topic, since Alaundo did ask.
My opinion on a lot of things from 1e to 3.5e for FR have clashed and so I change it for my version. My list, which I probably forgot some of, is really to long to detail. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 03:25:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
And to get this on topic, since Alaundo did ask.
My opinion on a lot of things from 1e to 3.5e for FR have clashed and so I change it for my version. My list, which I probably forgot some of, is really to long to detail. :)
That's pretty much the same for me as well. I've made quite a few changes that elaborate on, and work around material from 1e to 3e that has countered my own interpretation of the Realms.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 03:59:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And since then, he's not paid any attention to mortals, save for one thing: anywhere that his name is written down, it fades away.]
Hello-
I'm curious where this little snippet is revealed - as I dont specifically remember reading it anywhere.
Dhomal
If I remember correctly, it's also in the beginning of Faiths & Avatars. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Forgotten realm sources and opinions
