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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 07:05:02
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Your gaming experiences and the novels leave a lasting impression on your interpretation of the world. This is where you get to talk about what exactly is your impressions of the Realms and what sort of planet and theme to the world it is. Go into as much detail as you want and remember there is no judgements since this is your view.
My view I admittedly colored by my first DM. I was kind enough to get an older Dungeon Master who didn't shy away from darker themed fantasy and my characters weren't essentially kidified from the beginning. His depiction of the Realms was harsh, brutal, and nasty with the Hyborean feel that I've always been pointing out in our games. Our first campaign ended with the climax being cutting off Fzoul's head before the Zhentarim in an echo of Thulsa Doom after Semmenon and Ashemi had been slain with a sword thrown through both of them (Manshoon of course was unkillable even before we knew of clones--he was just too cool to slay).
My impression of the Realms has always been that it should be a lot darker of a world than its allowed to be depicted in the storylines. The closest we ever achieved a hint of it was in the Cormyr Trilogy, the Drow stories, and scattered moments here and there. There's some extraordinarily well written books out there but I occasionally wonder if the world we see isn't sort of the He-man version of it honestly. Strangely, the feel I get from the books is that some of my least favorite books (The Baldur's Gate trilogy for example) manage to imply the world I think exists than some of my favorite books.
Such is the kinds of paradox that happen in the real world I suppose.
For me, the Forgotten Realms depicted in the books and novels IS a very dangerous place though and its also one that appears very eccentric. The sheer volume of monsters and the variety seem to be something I've always liked. I also think that life varies tremendously with the seemingly Stalinistic portrayal of life under the Zhentarim contrasted against the idyllic Dale life. The distance between locations I imagine must also contribute to local control's strength (though I do think information will travel very quickly).
Also, magic is portrayed as a lot crazier than D&D rules might attest. Wizards seem to be a whole other race (save with elves) and partially a bit crazy. Even more surprising is the fact that there's no shying away from many of the evil religions in FR are cults and deal in utterly lawless/vile behavior without a bit of legitimacy.
I like the idea the world doesn't have an enforced morality to it and thus is much more wild even in the books, its just a bit of 'read between the lines.'
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12022 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 16:14:29
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Depends on where you go. Tethyr, Damara, and Cormyr tend to be more noble, humanitarian areas with most threats cleared from the general populace (well, Damara's a little more rugged). Sembia and Amn are similar, but you've gotta worry about the knife that the other local populace might be holding. Impiltur and Waterdeep are very noble places (on the surface) until you start peeling back the layers and see the class issues bubbling beneath the surface. Silverymoon and Halruaa are magical places of wonder and general peace. Then you've got Thay, Calimshan, and Dambrath where its might makes right.... and Mulhorand where "the gods make it right". The strength of the realms is its diversity and at the same time the fact that each area has its goals, but no one country has the sheer firepower to radically change things (of course, there can be arguments that country X has said firepower... but the ability of high level individuals to radically change the plans of armies tends to keep things in check more... thus, interregional conflict tends to happen more on a one-on-one level rather than a "my army is bigger than yours" level).
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 16:31:49
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Interesting topic.
I don't know how to describe it, but my idea of the realms is somewhere between the old grey box and the Baldur's Gate computer games. To me, Faerun is a cross between the movies Elizabeth and Hidden Dragon, Crouching Tiger, not Lord of the Rings.
Its a place where everybody and everything as an interesting story, including gods, blacksmiths, soldiers, barmaids, sailors and so on. The stories range from cinematic and comic to dark and violent, from tales about barmaids to fallen gods, all preferably in the same story-arc. Its a place where magic is random and unpredictable.
A friend of mine described Faerun as Harry Potter set in hippie California. 
I've read quite a few realms books the last few years. I am not a huge fan of Big Ed and RAS, Baker and Byers are my favorite realms writers. City of Ravens was great, and the rogue dragons series and the last mythal are my favorite series so far. |
Edited by - Snotlord on 06 Apr 2006 16:35:39 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 18:15:58
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To me:
Largely a sword-and-sorcery world, in its texture and common situations and picaresque manyness, leavened by some of the hope and grace of Dunsany and Tolkien's high fantasy. A world that's dense, responsive, full, dirty, variegated, not cold or stark or crystalline; with cruelty and pain but an underlying benevolence and beauty in that it's a place that's fun to imagine inhabiting. (Both peaks and troughs are somewhat worn off in the published Realms, with its rush to 'get to the plot'.) A world created by a man who loves books, where knowledge and memory are also love, whose interlocking, deferring, holographically connected lore forms a morally energized noosphere of adventurous joy. |
Edited by - Faraer on 06 Apr 2006 18:16:38 |
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 18:17:11
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hmm. It's interesting that snotlord says the realms is more like Elizabeth and Crouching Tiger, yet you site Year of the Rogue Dragons and the Last Mythal as your current favorite series in the Realms. I see the both of those as extreme fantasy and way more LotR related than the two historically fathomable movies you sited.
I do agree with you that the charm of Faerun is that everone from an ancient elven mage to a lowley human bar keep can weave a tale that entertains, but Faerun as "Harry Potter set in hippy California"? I'm not sure I get that at all |
Edited by - dannyfu on 06 Apr 2006 18:17:58 |
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 18:20:47
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quote:
To me:
Largely a sword-and-sorcery world, in its texture and common situations and picaresque manyness, leavened by some of the hope and grace of Dunsany and Tolkien's high fantasy. A world that's dense, responsive, full, dirty, variegated, not cold or stark or crystalline; with cruelty and pain but an underlying benevolence and beauty in that it's a place that's fun to imagine inhabiting. (Both peaks and troughs are somewhat worn off in the published Realms, with its rush to 'get to the plot'.) A world created by a man who loves books, where knowledge and memory are also love, whose interlocking, deferring, holographically connected lore forms a morally energized noosphere of adventurous joy.
well said Faraer, well said |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 18:39:24
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quote:
Originally posted by dannyfu
hmm. It's interesting that snotlord says the realms is more like Elizabeth and Crouching Tiger, yet you site Year of the Rogue Dragons and the Last Mythal as your current favorite series in the Realms. I see the both of those as extreme fantasy and way more LotR related than the two historically fathomable movies you sited.
I agree. Elizabeth is the courtly intrigue in Cormyr or Amn. Cormyr: A Novel, good as it is, is IMO not as good as the books by Byers and Baker.
Hidden Dragon and the imagery and style I strive for: larger-than-life stories and bright colors. LotR is to dark and gritty, and it ends. Faerun stories never ends.
quote:
I do agree with you that the charm of Faerun is that everone from an ancient elven mage to a lowley human bar keep can weave a tale that entertains, but Faerun as "Harry Potter set in hippy California"? I'm not sure I get that at all
The childish fun of Potter mixed with hippie philosophy and sex? Its not a major point, just an anecdote about a friend of mine who happened to like Ed's world. |
Edited by - Snotlord on 06 Apr 2006 18:58:39 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 18:44:00
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| It would be hippie Canada. |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 19:03:28
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for me the realms is a very tense place. it sees more conflict than most campaign settings, and based on stats listed in books and details on organizations, most people that you meet are working for some cause or another and have levels in something that could hurt! haha
its a place where wizards are always on the verge of open war and where magic is handled much like an arms race. (in the realms there are much more magic affecting spells... spells that target spelldefenses etc. [this is even more prominent in the baldurs gate series where you have spells like breach vs pierce etc.]) it seems like a place that has so much going on that you always have to watch out one action could spark a dire chain of reactions that could put whole kingdoms into chaos.
It also feels like the realms is a place where the common man is utterly forgotten and farming hamlets are glazed over with adventuring snobbishness... it feels like the common life is meaningless compared to the fog of ruins and half forgotten powers that permeates the entire setting |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 19:22:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
It also feels like the realms is a place where the common man is utterly forgotten and farming hamlets are glazed over with adventuring snobbishness... it feels like the common life is meaningless compared to the fog of ruins and half forgotten powers that permeates the entire setting
If you read the Volo's Guides, or Ed's fiction, or "Realmslore", or any of the sources where the published Realms catches its breath from the 'cool stuff', 'crunchy bits', 'iconic characters', 'latest events' and such garbage, you'll see that at its heart the opposite is true. The best Realms writing is compassionate and gives equal justice to the worth and dignity of everyone, high and low, young and ancient.
That's why in my forthcoming Realms sources guide I prominently cite the 'life of a city merchant' piece in City of Splendors [1994]. If such stuff too often takes the back seat, it's through the way the Realms is published, not the underlying nature of the Realms itself. |
Edited by - Faraer on 06 Apr 2006 19:25:29 |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 20:59:01
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yeah thats true Faraer but in a way the realms becomes what people publish it to be and while many of the current cataclysms are secret or unwitnessed i would think that farmers and everything would be flipping out about stuff like that.... then again maybe not
oh and what i meant about the organizations etc. was that based on the numbers of people listed in organizations compared to hte population of some places it would recquire nearly everyone to be in these organizations!
(hehe)
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"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 22:39:23
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quote:
It also feels like the realms is a place where the common man is utterly forgotten and farming hamlets are glazed over with adventuring snobbishness... it feels like the common life is meaningless compared to the fog of ruins and half forgotten powers that permeates the entire setting
For me, the point is the common man is utterly helpless before the Godlike terrors around him. Yes, commoner life IS meaningless before the wrath of Larloch or whatever evil that's going to emerge through the darkness. They live absurd lives that can be snuffed out in an instant by Dragons overnight. Like living in the midst of ever present threat of nuclear war.
Adventurers are people whom give up their chance for normal lives and will probably always be 'apart' from the common folk because they let go of their normal human fear at death.
In Forgotten Realms, you have all those villagers who give up one of their maidens every year to the Dragon because...yeah...fighting IS futile. The same about forgotten John Porter ever existed when a random wizard turns him into ashes.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 06 Apr 2006 22:40:22 |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 23:18:57
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| One of the things I like about the setting is that it's big and complex enough to accommodate a variety of approaches. Or at least I think it is. You can tell a high-spirited story full of comedy, an epic adventure, or a dark tale, and if done well, none of them will feel like it doesn't belong in this particular environment. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 23:26:19
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Warning: possible meandering.
Well, the prevailing model of Hollywood and popular fiction generally is egocentric: set up conflict, resolve conflict, closely follow arcs of a few central characters which the audience 'identifies with', 'big man' theory of history, redemption, locate meaning in individual characters' heads rather than in larger patterns such as communities. Look at Last Samurai: vain Tom Cruise steals thunder from samurai, background peasants are clean and picturesque. After harrowing first Godzilla film, trivialized sequels ignore the suffering of crowds. Wizards of the Coast fiction avoids adventuring companies despite success of Lord of the Rings films (themselves trimmed closer to the model -- Aragorn's self-doubt etc.); loner characters popular; Power of Faerūn, a book about organizations, focuses (more in the promotion than in the book) on leaders rather than rank and file when, in fact, these structures are ways that groups of people can organize and have large-scale political effects. Ed has commented on the 'me me me' trend in D&D. In other words, this particular distorting lens is far, far from unique to Faerūn.
It's why I love the Snuggleguts scene in Spellfire. Overneat structures and patterns are totalitarian.
Any particular examples of the numbers in organizations thing, Beirnadri? I hadn't noticed that.
My first post above was a quick, subjective 'what struck me then'. Much harder to do a thorough breakdown of the nature of the Realms, like in the Eberron Campaign Setting, but would be of great use. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 02:18:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
That's why in my forthcoming Realms sources guide I prominently cite the 'life of a city merchant' piece in City of Splendors [1994]. If such stuff too often takes the back seat, it's through the way the Realms is published, not the underlying nature of the Realms itself.
Well said, and very much agreed with.
I've always wondered what a continuous series of "Life of ... " articles for the Compendium might be like... treated in a vein similar to that of the "Life of a city merchant" in Steven's CoS boxed set.
Hmmm...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 07 Apr 2006 02:19:46 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 02:58:37
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my forgotten realms is everything that real life is not. I have tried all sorts of settings, including my own, and I always return to the realms. Thank you Ed. I envision a world of high magic, plenty of magical items and beasties to fight. The realms has the most flavor and history of any fantasy setting that I have ever encountered, after 20 years of D&D. I was looking for an in depth, get in the middle of what is what, but still being separate from the powers that be, and forgotten realms has delivered. does that make sense at all?? anyways, long day at work, off to read some realms lore |
Edited by - scererar on 07 Apr 2006 03:01:21 |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 05:17:20
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Faeraer: WotC was enthusiastic about me featuring what amounts to an adventuring company in Year of Rogue Dragons.
I suspect the reason you don't see more of them in FR fiction is that the longer the story, the more characters you can showcase, and, conversely, if it isn't long, you're limited. If Tolkien had been restricted to the length of the average stand-alone FR novel, we can be pretty sure that there wouldn't be much, if anything, of Merry, Pippin, Legolas, or Gimli in LotR. |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 09:08:21
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Unless they make Tolkien write under the same format as most popular fantasy writers nowadays, series made up of a dozen books or so with a handful of prequels and a few side novels.
[Glaring at you Wheel of Time] |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 13:58:05
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Richard: I'm glad to hear they were excited about it. I know adventuring bands aren't banned or anything, but when you hear of a new Realms novel it tends to have one main character or a few loosely affiliated ones. While nine characters is a lot to feature, four is manageable in a Wizards-sized novel, given that short stories can easily do justice to two.
An aspect of the Realms I could have mentioned above is fellowship, the ways that people form families to deal with the world's perils -- in contrast to, say, Vance's Dying Earth stories or Moorcock's Eternal Champion tales. |
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What sort of world is Forgotten Realms?
