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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 16:31:35
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The thread on "missing" portfolios got me thinking: do any of the existing portfolios have opposites which are not represented by any deity? The answer: yes. Lots.
Greater Powers
Akadi
Elemental Air - Elemental Earth [Grumbar]
Movement - Stillness [none]
Speed - Clumsiness [none] / Distance [none]
Flying Creatures - Land Creatures [none] (1) / Sea Creatures [none] (2)
Bane
Fear - Bravery [none] (3) / Courage [none] / Valor [none]
Hatred - Compassion [none] / Love [Sune]
Strife - Cooperation / [none] / Harmony [none] / Peace [Eldath]
Tyranny - Democracy [none] / Freedom [Lliira] / Justice [Tyr] Liberty [Lliira]
Chauntea
Agriculture - Industry [none]
Farmers - Hunters [Malar]
Gardeners - Foresters [none]
Plants Cultivated By Humans - Wild Plants [none]
Summer - Winter [Auril]
Cyric
Deception - Honesty [none] (3) / Openness [none] / Sincerity [none]
Illusion - Necromancy [Velsharoon] / Reality [none]
Intrigue - Loyalty [Torm]
Lies - Truth [Savras]
Murder - Lifegiving [none]
Grumbar
Changelessness - Flexibility [none]
Elemental Earth - Elemental Air [Akadi]
Oaths - Curses [none] / Denials [none]
Solidity - Hollowness [none] / Malleability [none]
Istishia
Elemental Water - Elemental Fire [Kossuth]
Purification - Contamination [none] / Corruption [none] (4) / Decay [none] (4)
Wetness - Dryness [none]
Kelemvor
Death - Birth [Lathander] / Life [none] / Undead [Kelemvor]
The Dead - The Living [none]
Kossuth
Elemental Fire - Elemental Water [Istishia]
Purification Through Fire - Purification Through Water [none] (5)
Lathander
Athletics - Idleness [none] / Laziness [none]
Birth - Death [Kelemvor]
Creativity - Inflexibility [none] / Orthodoxy [none] / Traditionalism [none]
Dawn - Dusk [none] (4)
Renewal - Abandonment [none] / Desistance [none] / Neglect [none]
Self Perfection - Self Deficiency [none] / Shortcomings [none] / Wasted Potential [none]
Spring - Autumn [Mielliki]
Vitality - Apathy [none] / Lethargy [none]
Youth - Adulthood [none] / Maturity [none] / Old Age [none] (4)
Mystra
Magic - Mundaness [none] / Secularism [none] / Science [none]
Spells - Technology [none]
The Weave - The Shadow Weave [Shar] (6)
Oghma
Bards - The Audience [none]
Inspiration - Dejection [none] / Discouragement [none]
Invention - Inability [none]
Knowledge - Forgetfulness [Shar] / Ignorance [none] / Secrets [Shar]
Shar
Caverns - ?
Dark - Light [none]
Dungeons - ?
Forgetfulness - Awareness [none] / Knowledge [Oghma] / Rememberance [none]
Loss - Achievement [none] / Gain [none] / Rediscovery [none]
Night - Day [none]
Secrets - Knowledge [Oghma] / Openess [none] / Revelations [none]
The Underdark - The Surface [none]
Silvanus
Druids - ?
Wild Nature - Civilization [none] / Plants Cultivated By Intelligent Creatures [none] / Tamed Nature [none]
Sune
Beauty - Ugliness [none]
Love - Hatred [Bane]
Passion - Apathy [none] / Indifference [none]
Talos
Conflagrations - Floods [none] / Torrential Rain [none]
Destruction - Construction [Gond] / Creation [none] / Preservation [none] / Restoration [none]
Earthquakes - Geographic Stability [none]
Rebellion - Law [none] (2) / Obedience [Torm] / Order [none] (2) / Peace [Eldath] / Rulership [none] (2)
Storms - Tranquil Weather [none]
Vortices - ?
Tempus
Battle - Armistice [none] / Peace [Eldath]
Warriors - Ambassadors [none]
War - Ceasefires [none] / Peace [Eldath]
Tyr
Justice - Discrimination [none] / Inequality [none] / Injustice [none] / Tyranny [Bane]
Intermediate Powers
Beshaba
Accidents - Safety [none] (3)
Bad Luck - Good Luck [none] / Prosperity [none]
Misfortune - Good Fortune [Tymora] / Luck [none]
Random Mischief - Good Behaviour [none]
Gond
Artifice - Artlessness [none] / Inability [none]
Craft - Clumsiness [none] / Incompetence [none]
Construction - Demolition [none] / Destruction [Talos]
Smithwork - Unskilled Labor [none]
Helm
Guardians - Aggressors [none] / Invaders [none]
Protection - Aggression [none] / Assailment [none] / Assassination [none] / Invasion [none]
Protectors - Assailants [none] / Assassins [none]
Ilmater
Endurance - Weakness [none]
Martyrdom - Apostasy [none]
Perseverance - Abdication [none] / Desistance [none] / Surrendering [none]
(Easing) Suffering - Agony / Hurt / Pain / Suffering / Torture [all Loviatar] / Cruelty [Gargauth]
Mielliki
Autumn - Spring [Lathander]
Dryads - ?
Forest - Plains [none] / Wasteland [none]
Forest Creatures - Plains Creatures [none] / Wasteland Creatures [none]
Rangers - Hunters [Malar]
Selūne
Good & Neutral Lycanthropes - Evil Lycanthropes [Malar]
Moon - Sun [None] (2)
Navigation - Misdirection [none]
Questers - Antagonists [none] / Hoarders [none]
Stars - Vacuum [none] / The Void [none]
Wanderers - Residents [none]
Tymora
Adventurers - Homebodies [none] / Killjoys [none]
Good Fortune - Misfortune [Beshaba]
Skill - Incompetence [none] / Ineptitude [none]
Victory - Defeat [none]
Umberlee
Currents - Tranquil Waters [none]
Oceans - Deserts [none] / Land Masses [none]
Sea Winds - Desert Winds [none]
Waves - Tranquil Waters [none]
Lesser Powers
Auril
Cold - Heat [none]
Winter - Summer [Chauntea]
Azuth
Mages - Scientists [none]
Monks - ?
Spellcasters in General - Seculars [none]
Wizards - Mundanes [none]
Deneir
Cartography - Ignorance [none]
Glyphs - Speech [none]
Images - Sounds [none], Writing [none]
Literature - Illiteracy [none] / Oral Tradition [none]
Scribes - Readers [none]
Eldath
Peace - Noise [None] / War [Tempus]
Pools - Oceans [Umberlee], Sand Dunes [none]
Quiet Places - Noisy Places [None]
Springs - Rivers [None]
Waterfalls - Trickles [None]
Lliira
Dance - Clumsiness [None]
Festivals - Funerals [None]
Freedom - Cruelty [Garguth] / Dependence [None] / Oppression [None] / Tyranny [Bane]
Happiness - Gloominess [none] / Sadness [none]
Joy - Despair [none] / Misery [none]
Liberty - Constraint [none] / Slavery [none] / Tyranny [Bane]
Loviatar
Agony - Bliss [none]
Pain - Pleasure [none]
Hurt - Healing [none] (3)
Suffering - Comforting [none]
Torment - Contentment [none]
Torture - Alleviation [none]
Malar
Bloodlust - Calmness [none] / Detachment [none]
Evil Lycanthropes - Good Lycanthropes [Selūne]
Marauding Beasts and Monsters - Captive Bests and Monsters [none] / Tamed Beasts and Monsters [none]
Hunters - Farmers [Chauntea]
Stalking - Guiding [none]
Mask
Shadows - Daylight [None]
Thieves - Law Enforcers [None]
Thievery - Law Enforcement [None]
Milil
Eloquence - Inarticulateness [None]
Poetry - Prose / Science [None]
Song - Silence [none] / Speech [none]
Shaundakul
Caravans - Bandits [none]
Exploration - Inactivity [none]
Miners - Smiths [none]
Portals - ?
Travel - Inhabiting [none]
Talona
Disease - Health [none]
Poison - Antidotes [none] / Cures [none]
Torm
Duty - Convenience [none] / Political Corruption [Gargauth] / Privilege [none] / Selfishness [none]
Loyalty - Betryal [Gargauth] / Disloyalty [none] / Treachery [none]
Obedience - Disobedience [none] / Rebellion [Talos]
Paladins - Anti-Paladins [none] / Blackguards [none]
Uthgar
Physical Strength - Physical Weakness [None]
Uthgardt Barbarian Tribes - ?
Waukeen
Money - Barter [none] / Generosity [none]
Trade - Hoarding [none] / Isolation [none]
Wealth - Poverty [none]
Demipowers
Finder Wyvernspur
Cycle of life - Immortality [none]
Saurials - ?
Transformation of Art - Unchanging Art [none]
Garagos
Destruction - Construction [Gond] / Creation [none] / Preservation [none] / Restoration [none]
Plunder - Gifts [none]
Skill-at-Arms - Incompetence [none]
War - Peace [Eldath]
Gargauth
Betrayal - Loyalty [Torm]
Cruelty - Compassion [none] / Kindness [none] / (Easing) Suffering [Ilmater]
Political Corruption - Duty [Torm]
Powerbrokers - Trustworthy Leaders [none]
Gwaeron Windstrom
Rangers of the North - Rangers of the South [none]
Tracking - Evasion [none]
Hoar
Retribution - Amnesty [none] / Leniency [none]
Poetic Justice - Unfair Outcomes [none]
Revenge - Forgiveness / Mercy [none]
Jergal
Fatalism - Chance [none] / Free Will [none]
Guardians of Tombs - Tomb Raiders [none]
Proper Burial - Inproper Burial [none]
Lurue
Intelligent Nonhumanoid Creatures - Intelligent Humanoid Creatures / Unintelligent Nonhumanoid Creatures [none]
Talking Beasts - Mute Humanoids [none] / Non-talking Beasts [none]
Nobanion
Good Beasts - Evil Beasts [none]
Lions and Feline Beasts - Wolves and Canine Beasts [none]
Royalty - Beggars [none]
Red Knight
Planning - Randomness [none]
Strategy - Carelessness [none]
Tactics - Aimlessness [none]
Savras
Divination - Conjuration [none]
Fate - Freewill [none]
Truth - Lies [Cyric]
Sharess
Cats - Dogs [none]
Festhalls - Prisons [none]
Hedonism - Aversion [none] / Self Denial [none]
Sensual Fulfillment - Abstinence [none]
Shiallia
Growth - Recession [none] / Reduction [none]
Neverwinter - ?
The High Forest - ?
Woodland Fertility - Plains Fertility [none] / Woodland Inferility [none]
Woodland Glades - Deep Woodland [none]
Siamorphe
Human Royalty - Human Beggars [none]
Nobles - Peasants [none]
Rightful Rule of Noblity - Dictatorship [none] / Unjust Rule [none]
Ulutiu
Arctic Dwellers - Jungle Dwellers [none]
Glaciers - Volcanos [none]
Polar Environments - Equatorial Environments [none] / Tropical Environments [none]
Valkur
Favourable Winds - Adverse Winds [none] / Storms [Talos]
Naval Combat - Aerial Combat [none] / Land Combat [none]
Sailors - Land Lovers [none]
Ships - ?
Velsharoon
Evil Liches - Good Liches [none]
Necromancers - Illusionists [none]
Necromancy - Illusion [Cyric]
Undeath - Death [Kelemvor] / Life [none] / Positive Energy [none]
Key:
1 - Though Mielliki has Forest Creatures.
2 - Though this portfolio did exist during the time of Netheril.
3 - However, this portfolio is present in at least one non-human pantheon.
4 - Though Myrkul once held this portfolio.
5 - Istishia's portfolio could be said to include this, rather than the more general Purification.
6 - Although this isn't officially a portfolio.
As for why any of the above portfolios don't exist from a roleplaying perspective, there are several possible explanations:
- The portfolo is an aspect of a larger one, and the god responsible for that portfolio either doesn't need or doesn't want a lesser deity to oversee the aspect.
- No deity currently has an interest in the portfolio. Numerous portfolios from the time of Netheril currently lie unclaimed, as do several of the portfolios which once belonged to Moander and Myrkul. Upon his ascension, Bane claimed the previously unknown portfolio of Fear, and . In the centuries to come, the portfolios of Science and Technology will likely become extremely important.
- The deity who holds the portfolio is currently sleeping. Ulutiu is the most obvious example of this, but who says there can't be others?
- The portfolio could represent a concept that simply isn't (yet) a concern to the people of the Realms and/or the gods, either because its too minor (what god would bother claiming the portfolio of Mute Humanoids or Trickles?) or because its irrelevant to the modern age in the Realms.
- The philosophy the portfolio represents is incompatible with religion. For example, a god of Apostasy (abandonment of one's faith, beliefs or cause) or Faithlessness wouldn't exactly last very long.
Quite a few interesting plot hooks could come of these portfolios. For example, a new god of Democracy, Industry, Science or Technology could come into being, his fanatical followers intent on causing radical change in the Realms. Perhaps chaos could errupt on a nearby waterway, after Umberlee decides to adopt the vacant portfolio of Rivers. Maybe a cult dedicated to Shar's forgotten (pun intended) portfolios of Discouragement and Ignorance could start causing subtle problems on Lantan.
These portfolios could also be used to promote existing deities, or somewhat alter their ambitions in the Realms. For example, if Waukeen obtained the portfolio of Prosperity, she could rise to an Immediate Power. If Hoar were granted the portfolio of Valor, he could become a Lesser or an Intermediate Power, and may even change alignment to Lawful Good. Eldath might gain the portfolio of Tranquility, rising to Intermediate Deity and coming to be a more active opponent of Talos and Umberlee. Kossuth could claim the portfolio of Desert, and start taking an active interest in areas such as the Anauroch, the Calim desert, and the Raurin desert.
Alternatively, the portfolios could simply be concepts that followers of a god who holds an opposing portfolio actively work against.
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Edited by - nbnmare on 21 Jan 2007 23:03:23
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2006 : 01:42:07
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hmmm
real quick, Silvanus has Wild Nature, and Chauntea has Plants cultivated by humans, they could be opposites.. (in fact, it was mentioned, I think in F&P that Silvanus does not care for the fact that Chauntea has been moving more and more into cultivation.)
Mkhaiwati |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2006 : 04:31:02
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I would have quoted nbnmare, but I'd rather not make a huge quote for a relatively small post. I believe that there are some deities that have (or at least have had in the past) portfolios that match some of the opposites you ask for.
- Movement - Stillness [none] - There are some deities with the portfolio of somnolence. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Ramenos the bullywug god (a particular favorite of mine for no good reason). I suppose speed could also be considered the opposite of somnolence.
- Flying Creatures - Any deities of reptiles (who have scalykind) might be considered to be opposite this. Genesis mentions "creatures the crawl on the earth" as being reptiles and other low landbound creatures.
- Agriculture could be considered to be opposed to artifice, construction, and craft (especially in terms of Gond).
- Deception - Truth is the opposite of this just as it is of lies.
- Purification - seems opposed to disease and poison (Talona)
- Athletics - opposed to Somnolence
- Vitality - also opposed to Somnolence
- Inspiration - seems opposed to Loss (shar)
- Wild Nature - seems opposed to basically everything of Siamorphe
- Storms - Eldath basically represents tranquil weather
I could continue, but guess ultimately you just need to look at what each deity represents and find the qualities opposed to those things in other gods. It won't always be an exact match, but there usually something.
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http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2006 : 08:21:53
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For all we know there my have been a deity (or several) directly opposing the Red Knight. However, given his/her/its portfolios they undoubtedly lost them due to some fluke and just couldn't be bothered to look for them again. I guess that's what you get with the portfolios of carelessness, randomness, and aimlessness.
Even better, these portfolios are tied to an artifcact (ala the Crown of Horns). 
With regard to Strife, one could say that it is opposed by commerce (trade) and throw Waukeen's hat into the mix.
I'm not so sure that trade should be opposed by entertainment and fun, rather than by isolation, strife, and non-communication. Ironically, Waukeen's portfolios actually come into some conflict (hording wealth vs. trade) as can be clearly seen if one just looks at Waukeen's various festivals. |
Edited by - Sarta on 14 Mar 2006 08:22:48 |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2006 : 08:36:54
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Thanks for your input :).
Movement covers any sort of speed, and even someone who's somnolent still moves.
I wouldn't say reptiles are the opposite of flying creatures, for the simple fact there are flying reptiles... :D
Artifice, construction and craft are simply aspects of industry. However, perhaps it would be an idea to come up with elements of agriculture that are the specific opposite of these parts of indsutry. Thanks for the idea :).
Lies and truth are both types of statements, wheres deceit and honesty are both acts or conditions. As well as this, deception is defined as "the use of deceit", and one of the definitions of honesty is "not being deceitful". They sound rather opposite to me :).
Disease and poison are both simply types of corruption, as noted.
Athletics are something you go out and consciously do, whereas somnolence is a state your body can be in. Somnolence could certainy be a consequence of idleness or laziness, but then again it could also be a consequence of too much athletics! :P
Somnolence is more a consequence of a lack of vitality, rather than its opposite.
Inspiration is opposed to a specific type of a loss (one I can't think of a word for right now - guess I'm lacking inspiration ;)), rather than inspiration as a whole.
Again I'd have to say Siamorphe's portfolios are elements of an opposite to wild nature, rather than direct opposites themselves.
Eldath isn't a god of weather, but him gaining the portfolios of Tranquil Weather or Tranquility could make for an interesting storyline. |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2006 : 09:04:16
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Mkhaiwati:
Sorry, forgot to reply to your post before.
In the real world, tamed nature and plants cultivated by humans would definitely be the same thing. However, in the Realms it would have to be plants cultivated by intelligent creatures, which Chauntea obviously doesn't have (yet?).
Sarta:
Yep, a god of randomness, carelessness and aimlessness sounds like something that would work better in the Discworld than the Forgotten Realms  .
IMHO commerce/trade are aspects of cooperation, so while it certainly conflicts with strife, it's not the direct opposite. If it were, then Bane would have to disallow trade in his portion of the Zhentarim, as well as his fledgling empire in the Tethyr/Lake of Steam region... the first Realmsian communist states? 
I'd have to agree with you on trade, that's one of the ones I struggled with a bit. These words are antonyms of trade according thesaurus.com, and though I tried, I couldn't think of anything better. Hoarding and isolation sounds like a much better fit though, thanks.
EytanBernstein:
Eldath is one of those deities whose gender depends on which sourcebook you read (the other one who comes to mind is the Red Knight)  .
BTW thinking on it some more, deceit doesn't neccessarily involve lies (though it could do), so openness or sincerity could both be said to be its opposite. You've definitely given me something to think about  . |
Edited by - nbnmare on 14 Mar 2006 09:37:04 |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2006 : 12:51:52
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Here's an example of a new deity which makes use of some of the "missing" portfolios mentioned above. This probably pushes this thread beyond the remit of the Sages of Realmslore forum, so if a mod wants to move this elsewhere, please go ahead
Ahiamar
Lord of Dusk, Master of Apathy, Old Man Twilight
Lesser Power
Symbol: Broken black hour glass with grey sand pouring out
Home Plane: The Plane of Shadow
Alignment: NE
Portfolio: Abandonment, Apathy, Dusk, Neglect, Old Age, Wasted Potential
Worshippers: Former worshippers of Myrkul, assassins, cold-hearted humans, monks (Twilight Spirit), spies
Cleric alignments: LE, NE, CE, N
Domains: Darkness, Evil, Illusion, Suffering
Favored Weapon: "Gloom Scourge" (flail)
Ahiamar (ae-ah-mer) is a new god, a recently ascended high priest of Shar, Lady of Loss. He follows his mistress' will in all things and obeys her without question - hidden desires and aspirations are against his very nature.
The church of Ahiamar is larger than one might expect of a new institution, as many priests who once worshipped the now dead deity Myrkul have taken to serving the Lord of Dusk. Many of those mortals who have reason to hate Lathander and his clergy have also begun praying to the Master of Apathy. The church has no temples as yet, merely small shrines which are usually underground, and almost always within a few miles of a temple of Lathander.
Clerics of Shar pray for their spells at dusk. They share the holy day of the faithful of Shar, the Rising of the Dark, which occurs on the Feast of the Moon. Once a month, a cleric must either meet with a high priest or send his most trusted servant to do so, in order discuss the activities of the church of Lathander and how to disrupt them.
Ahiamar has a small but growing brotherhood of monks called the Twilight Spirit, in mockery of Lathander's own monastic order, the Sun Soul.
History / Relationships: The Dark Goddess Shar has many enemies among the gods, one of them being Lathander the Morninglord. The Lady of Loss recently became aware that the god of Creativity was setting in motion some kind of grand plan, perhaps a revised attempt at the scheme which led to the Dawn Cataclysm. In that instance Shar successfully thwarted Lathander's ambitions, yet in recent times most of her attention and power are expended on combatting Mystra and Selune.
Shar could not discern the precise nature of the Morninglord's machination, let alone find a way to defeat them, and this simple fact utterly terrified her, and nor could she afford to divert enough of her attention away from her other foes to do so. This simple fact terrified the Nightsinger. She quickly decided that the only way to solve the problem would be to recruit an ally - yet the Mistress of the Night considered only two of the existing deities to be even remotely trustworthy, and their were particularly suitable for the task Shar had in mind.
Shar therefore contacted one of her mosted trusted high priests, Ahiamar Eventide, in a divine vision, and guided him to perform and complete a ritual to ascend to godhood. Once he had become a demipower, Shar helped him acquire two of her former ally Myrkul's unclaimed portfolios, Dusk and Old Age, and granted him several minor aspects of her own portfolios: from Loss came Apathy and Wasted Potential, and from Forgetfulness came Abandonment and Neglect.
Being that Ahiamar's main concern is to foil the plans of Lathander, naturally the two gods were immediate immortal enemies. As a servant of the Mistress of the Night, most of Shar's own enemies consider Ahiamar to be a foe, including Mystra, Selūne, and Shaundakul. Ahiamar's dogma conflicts with those of Ilmater, Lliira and Sune, and so the Crying God, the Joybringer and Lady Firehair also count Old Man Twilight among their enemies. Shar has instructed Talona and Vhaeraun to ally themselves with Ahiamar, and both grudgingly lend their aid and advise to the new deity.
Dogma: Observe and subtly combat the clergy of Lathander. Never come into conflict with the faithful of the Nightsinger. Convince people of good to abandon their dreams, steer them away from discovering hidden talents, and cause them to neglect their loved ones. Never show any emotion, especially interest or concern, and forget your personal ambitions and goals - tend only to those of the Lady of Loss and the Lord of Dusk. Success in this will be rewarded, failure will be punished. |
Edited by - nbnmare on 14 Mar 2006 23:37:06 |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2006 : 22:30:56
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quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
Mkhaiwati:
EytanBernstein:
Eldath is one of those deities whose gender depends on which sourcebook you read (the other one who comes to mind is the Red Knight) .
BTW thinking on it some more, deceit doesn't neccessarily involve lies (though it could do), so openness or sincerity could both be said to be its opposite. You've definitely given me something to think about .
At least according to Faiths and Pantheons, the most recent deity-centered FR book, Eldath is female. (I'm also pretty sure Eldath is referred to as female in the Threat from the Sea series, one of the few novels (or sets) in which she is featured). It's quite possible that the god is referred to as male or genderless in some publications, though the majority of sources I see refer to her as female. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2006 : 23:26:52
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I could have sworn I saw her refered to as a him in at least one book, but I can't seem to find it right now. It's definitely not Faiths & Avatars, though.
But anyway, yes, I was wrong |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 05:27:39
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| This is FR after all, so stranger things have happened than gender changes. Anyone who has been to a "spin a yarn with Ed" event can attest to that. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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yargarth
Seeker
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2007 : 04:40:14
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If Chauntea is a godess of plants cultivated by humans then her opposite would be Silvanus. For he is the god of untamed nature.
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"You take a step, then another. That's the journey. But to take a step with your eyes open is not a journey at all, it's a remaking of your own mind."
-Orson Scott Card
Ender in Exile |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1076 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2007 : 09:06:24
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quote:
Originally posted by yargarth
If Chauntea is a godess of plants cultivated by humans then her opposite would be Silvanus. For he is the god of untamed nature.
Yes i agre with you yargarth
Tyr vs. Mask
I dont know if I am wrong here, but in my campaign the believers of the two goods on toril, always have their fights in one way ore another. Paladins vs. master criminals and so one
Tyr is the deity of Law and Justice. His dogma is primarily concerned with the punishment of wrong-doers, and the general furthering of Law and Good in the world.
Tyr holds great prominence in the Faerūnian pantheon due to his position as leader of the Triad,
Dogma
Reveal the truth, punish the guilty, right the wrong, and always be true and just in your actions.
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Mask The Master of All Thieves
Mask is a loner god,
Dogma
Strive to end each day with more wealth than you began it, but steal what is most vital, not everything at hand. Honesty is for fools, but apparent honesty is valuable.
Make every truth seem plausible, and never lie when you can tell the truth but leave a mistaken impression. Subtlety is everything. Manipulation is better than force, especially when you can make people think they have done something on their own initiative. |
Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571
Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047
Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2007 : 15:46:14
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Eldath is female.
Red Knight is female but has on occasion used male avatars.
When Ed "invented" divine portfolios (which really means: formalized the concept for the D&D game by assigning specific interests to deities and using the word "portfolio" for them), he speculated on the existence (or not) of a Divine Balance.
His take on it (see many GenCon seminars) is that mortals can only imperfectly understand the nature of divinity.
There may be no balance in a pantheon.
There certainly aren't an orderly array of equally-offsetting portfolios (or as this thread expresses it, "portfolios and their opposities") in the Realms pantheon. Given the chaos factor, there probably can never be.
Yes, having deities opposed on a particular matter (Silvanus vs. Chauntea over plants, as posted) makes for great roleplaying opportunities, but trying to extend this "direct opposition exists" to all topics, and all deities, becomes futile.
This is not my opinion, BTW, this is Ed's take on the world and pantheon he created, as expressed at GenCon seminars and agreed with at those seminars by the successive Realms traffic cops of Jeff Grubb and Steven Schend, and by other TSR and later WotC designers such as Steve Winter, David Wise, Frank Mentzer, etc.
love to all,
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 22 Jan 2007 15:48:56 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2007 : 21:33:41
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Interesting topic nbnmare, and its gives one a lot of interesting thigns to thing about and speculate on. I have always seen the Realms much as THO relates Ed's take on things, which is that the pantheon has gods as they "naturally" occur, and sometimes this doesn't lead to absolute balance.
In fact, the whole "for every X there is a Y, for this god there is that god" idea reminds me much more of DragonLance and its more structured pantheon.
In fact, I always pictured the FR pantheon as more of a "corporate structure" versus DragonLance having a more "governmental" structure. In other words, when the employees and customers demand a certain product (the spiritual need for a new portfolio, in this case), a new division might be set up with a new "manager." There isn't automatically an equal and opposite division with a new "manager" set up unless there is a demand for such opposite treatment.
Heck, look at Selune and Shar . . . they are opposites, and yet Selune is technically not as powerful as her "opposite number."
On the other hand, Krynn, with its "government" structure, seems more like a government with a constitution and offices set up before the universe even really gets going, and those are the positions that you have, no matter what the population is up to.
If that makes any sense. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2007 : 18:38:15
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| Some posters take the idea of divine portfolios too literally. They're a mortal abstraction of vast transcendent forces, not exact assignations to be audited and 'balanced' with spreadsheets and set squares. |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 00:51:17
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My goal was to provide a set of possibilities for creators of home campaigns to work with, not provide a set of concepts that are somehow "missing" from the official campaign setting. There certainly wasn't any intent on my part to imply that any of these concepts *should* have an associated deity, or that there needs to be any sort of natural balance amongst the pantheon; rather I wanted to come up with an extensive list of potential "unassigned" portfolios that would come in handy for DMs who wanted to either add their own custom deities to their personal campaigns, or perhaps add to existing deities' portfolios for campaigns set in the future or distant past. Defining those concepts that, to us mere mortals, appear to oppose the already assigned portfolios simply seemed like both an interesting and an easy way to go about it.
It should be noted that not once in Faith & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, Demi-human Deities, Faiths & Pantheons, Player's Guide to Faerun or any other source book does it specifically state that the deities that have been officially detailed to date are the only ones in existence. I always imagined that the "complete" pantheon of deities has been left entirely up to the DM, just as with so many other aspects of the Realms. After all, I believe it was Ed himself who once said something along the lines that even Ao himself is completely subservient to the DM's wishes.
Anyway, of course many of the 'unassigned' portfolios could easily be considered a part of existing portfolios, but then again many of them couldn't. Even in the official Realms setting there are several examples of portfolios that once had an associated deity but now lie unclaimed (Myrkul's rotting death, decay, and corruption, and 2E Shaundakul's long-range traders and windghosts, for example), and also a couple of examples of brand new portfolios appearing (such as the reborn Bane's fear, or 3E's Shaundakul's portals). It's therefore hardly a stretch to imagine that there are numerous other unclaimed/"dormant" portfolios available, waiting to be adopted by existing deities (as and when they see the need), newly ascended former mortals, or newly arrived interloper deities.
As KnightErrantJR says, a concept only really has potential as portfolio if mortals see a need to worship a god of that concept. However, there are numerous concepts on that list I'm highly surprised there is no deity of, or that none of the existing deities have claimed as their own - courage, creation, industry, life, and mercy, for example. Precisely why there is no deity of a particular concept that would appear to hold a natural and important appeal to mortals could make for an interesting story in of itself; perhaps several of the good aligned deities were so intent on claiming the portfolio of life that they were on the brink of open conflict, and to preserve the balance Ao chose to make it unavailable to all of them. Perhaps there is a deity of creation and industry but he, as both Xvim and Waukeen once were, is currently being held captive somewhere. In fact, perhaps the human pantheon of Faerun was once far more "balanced" than it currently is, or perhaps Ao's long terms plans involve making it so. Of course, none of this ever happened in the canon realms but, to put it bluntly, so what? |
Edited by - nbnmare on 04 Feb 2007 01:38:07 |
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Ulicus
Acolyte
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 02:24:22
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This is a very late response, but I saw little point in creating a new thread.
Whilst I don't think every portfolio needs an opposite, I have to admit that there are some porfolios that really should be represented in the Realms and yet... aren't.
I mean, why isn't Torm "the Brave" god of courage already?
It just makes absolutely no sense to me.
Of course, I think it makes absolutely no sense that the PTB haven't offed Helm (and Tyr for that matter) and transferred all his (their) powers over to Torm, but that's just because I'm a bit of a Torm-boy. |
"Bane" = "Xvim" = Cyric, Prince of Lies |
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Divine portfolios and their opposites
