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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 22:46:18
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The Elminster books occur in the 200s DR and then (much later) the 700s DR. The sword he supposedly wields now is likely a recent acquisition (and knowing Ed and the Old Mage isn't really a sword at all ...) and hence not featured in the novels.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 22:52:06
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| ... And there's also the fact that the artwork sometimes doesn't even remotely resemble what it supposedly depicts... I'd not consider the artwork definitive in any way. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 22:54:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
... And there's also the fact that the artwork sometimes doesn't even remotely resemble what it supposedly depicts... I'd not consider the artwork definitive in any way.
Has to back this up and recall my memories about what Ed said, when I met him on the book tour, about the cover of Elminster's Daughter. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 22:59:20
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| thank you for your replies. I, of course, do not consider the art to be a definitive source, I was just curious as to the consistency of that detail in the more recent art of the old mage and its contradiction to his character stats. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 23:04:58
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The our-world history of this is that as part of the reconceptualization of the Realms for the latest Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting it was decided to overhaul Elminster's appearance and make him less bearded-robed-old-sage-wizard-like: so the new face (Sean Connery look appropriated from Khelben), shorter hair, and sword.
As Ed has pointed out, this could well be an appearance Elminster sometimes adopts... but not most of the time. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 00:24:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
... And there's also the fact that the artwork sometimes doesn't even remotely resemble what it supposedly depicts... I'd not consider the artwork definitive in any way.
Has to back this up and recall my memories about what Ed said, when I met him on the book tour, about the cover of Elminster's Daughter. :)
At least, that's what I've always assumed.
And as Faraer just noted... this really has more to do with actual changing artist interpretations of the Old Mage, than any true reflection of Elminster himself.
Though, as Ed has said in the past here... Elminster is rather quite capable in this aspect if the need requires him to be .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 18:06:07
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The Elminster books occur in the 200s DR and then (much later) the 700s DR. The sword he supposedly wields now is likely a recent acquisition (and knowing Ed and the Old Mage isn't really a sword at all ...) and hence not featured in the novels.
-- George Krashos
maybe it's just a cool way to carry around his pipe  |
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 19:35:23
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bastard sword or not, I guess I can't see a mage of his caliber saying, "uh oh, red dragon swooping down at me....hmmmm.....i think i'm going to use a sword against it instead of my years of acquired spells and magic, just to change it up a bit. Y'know, have some fun, see how it goes." |
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silverwizard
Seeker
Greece
76 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 19:51:56
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The only Elminster novel I've read is the first one, and that in 1995, when I started playing AD&D. Therefore, due to the time elapsed (not to mention my -at the time- bad english), it is difficult for me to remember whether he wielded a sword near the end of the book. I do remember that the book was divided in 4 parts, one for each class he had: fighter, thief, cleric, mage. It is stated in "Heroes' Lorebook" that he has not used the abilities of classes other than mage for so long he has actually forgotten them. Since in 3E he miraculously regained the benefits of the classes he had formerly lost, I guess WotC wanted him to wield a top-notch super-duper sword.
Anyway, bear in mind that Elminster is (or should be) primarily a mage. Under normal circumstances, there will be no need for him to use the sword. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 19:58:11
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwizard
The only Elminster novel I've read is the first one, and that in 1995, when I started playing AD&D. Therefore, due to the time elapsed (not to mention my -at the time- bad english), it is difficult for me to remember whether he wielded a sword near the end of the book. I do remember that the book was divided in 4 parts, one for each class he had: fighter, thief, cleric, mage. It is stated in "Heroes' Lorebook" that he has not used the abilities of classes other than mage for so long he has actually forgotten them. Since in 3E he miraculously regained the benefits of the classes he had formerly lost, I guess WotC wanted him to wield a top-notch super-duper sword.
Anyway, bear in mind that Elminster is (or should be) primarily a mage. Under normal circumstances, there will be no need for him to use the sword.
from what I remember of making of a mage, Elminster did retreive his fathers sword, it was broken or melted, I don't remember which. During his short time as a warrior and then as a thief, I do beleive he weilded a sword of some sort. Additionally, I always assumed the sword, in the newer dipiction of the old mage, was his father's sword that he has had restored. |
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silverwizard
Seeker
Greece
76 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 21:49:11
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| Sounds plausible. Does Elminster actually use the sword in the rest of the series? |
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Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 22:18:40
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| I don't recall him using a sword but I could be mistaken. Maybe in making of a mage but I don't recall him using it later |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5696 Posts |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2006 : 00:30:48
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Elminster (some 1100 years after the events of MAKING OF A MAGE) has only used a sword twice in all of our play sessions: once to spank Torm with the flat of it, and once to scare the squidgy stuff out of a haughty visiting Red Wizard by (after a subtle, VERY swift casting the Thayan missed noticing) taking hold of a sword in his bare hands and bending it effortlessly into a clove hitch. :}
Oh, and you don’t “forget” being a priestess of Mystra. Ever. From what I’ve seen of Elminster, he hasn’t given himself the chance to forget being a thief, either. :}
As for the illustrations you cite, I asked Ed to give you an answer, in-character as Elminster, and here it is:
The Lion Sword? Makes a good walking-stick.
love,
THO
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Edited by - The Hooded One on 11 Mar 2006 00:32:09 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2006 : 02:04:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Elminster (some 1100 years after the events of MAKING OF A MAGE) has only used a sword twice in all of our play sessions: once to spank Torm with the flat of it, and once to scare the squidgy stuff out of a haughty visiting Red Wizard by (after a subtle, VERY swift casting the Thayan missed noticing) taking hold of a sword in his bare hands and bending it effortlessly into a clove hitch. :}
Oh, and you don’t “forget” being a priestess of Mystra. Ever. From what I’ve seen of Elminster, he hasn’t given himself the chance to forget being a thief, either. :}
As for the illustrations you cite, I asked Ed to give you an answer, in-character as Elminster, and here it is:
The Lion Sword? Makes a good walking-stick.
love,
THO
small spoiler below:
If this lion sword is the same that Elminster's father, Elthryn Aumar, wielded when he died fighting off the dragon-riding mage, it is old indeed. Check out pages 10 through 13 of Making of a mage. |
Edited by - scererar on 11 Mar 2006 02:13:55 |
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2006 : 02:16:45
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| thanks to all of you for this informative thread. big ups to the hooded One for asking Ed. I didn't post this on his thread because i didn't think this was worth an inquiry from Ed himself. all of you were most awesome in extinguishing my curiosity. thanks again. (I love this site!) |
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the Sword of Elminster
