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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 04:54:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
[quote]Why do we need an evil god of magic? Mystra isn't good, so we don't have a good god of magic...
*checks Faiths and Pantheons* Neutral Good.
[quote]
prior to time of troubles mystra was LN, Midnight, who assumed mystra's essence and name, is NG. this is the reasoning followers are allowed to be either ng or ln when choosing Mystra as a patron ( pg 247 FRCS). |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 07:20:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
Why do we need an evil god of magic? Mystra isn't good, so we don't have a good god of magic...
*checks Faiths and Pantheons* Neutral Good.
My bad... But it's a moot point: Mystra is bound by Ao to share her magic freely. She may be good, but she cannot give good guys anymore magic or advantages than she can to evil. She has to be neutral with magic. So there is no need for an evil deity of magic.
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
Strained? Where do you get that? He was her first Magister. She helped him ascend. He spent the ToT guarding a statue of her. Strained? I don't see that...
Wooley, there's this thing called the Time of Troubles....
I know that many (Ed Greenwood included) ignore it...but...
Mystra is dead. Midnight is the new Mystra.
Do not presume to tell me my Realmslore!! 
Furthermore, get your facts right. Ed doesn't ignore the Time of Troubles. His campaign has not reached that point in time.
Fine, there's a new Mystra. And where does it say she's had any strains with Azuth? She needs Azuth -- there are no problems between them.
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Re: Velsharoon
You raise good points but basically, I point to Tiamat as goddess of a certain region beside Unther and the previous local god of the region before she subsumed him. Regional deities are pretty rare but they aren't unheard of.
Regional deities? Who brought them up?
Tiamat isn't a regional deity -- she belongs to a couple of pantheons. That's not the same as being the god of a region.
Being the god of the Red Wizards isn't the same, either. Red Wizards are not a region -- they are a relatively small subgroup amongst a larger population. The majority of Thayans are not Red Wizards.
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Also, the Red Wizards are pretty much a race to their own view of things as well as an organization and nationality. It's a unique situation I don't think would be duplicated by anyone.
Again, small group, part of a larger population... And you again fail to carry it out to the logical conclusion. A deity of just the mulan? Fine, where's my deity of just the Chondathans, or just the Tethyrians?
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I do admit though that I'm surprised the Wyvernspur family doesn't wholesale adopt Finder as their god.
Um, again, the whole match your nature to a deity thing?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 07:24:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
Why do we need an evil god of magic? Mystra isn't good, so we don't have a good god of magic...
[quote]*checks Faiths and Pantheons* Neutral Good.
I wouldn't say that's completely definitive. By the very existence of the officer of Magister... these champions are expected to "hold themselves aloof from considerations of good and evil among mages and magic use, considering instead the primary goal of their office: to encourage the ever-wider use of magic in Faerun, and to promote its availabiity and utility".
That in itself demonstrates a certain level of "separation" between Mystra's doctrine and the strict dictates of good and evil. Mystra is about furthering magic itself and sharing the Art with ALL... rather than automatically adhereing it to the perspectives of mortals and their alignments.
Mystra isn't a "good" god of magic... she is, simply, "a" (or rather neutral [if you must rely on strict alignments]) god of magic.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - The Sage on 10 Apr 2006 07:26:17 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 08:15:46
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Wooley, I never expected you to read your Realmslore. I was giving a gentle reminder of a fact I'm sure you were fully aware of. There's no need to get steamed, I'm fairly sure it was simply one of those random brain blips we all have. Please take no offense.
Also, I thought Ed chose to have his campaign simply not have the Time of Troubles by assent. I stand corrected otherwise.
But while Mystra is God of Magic, I do think that the alignments of such alway do impact their porfolios. Tempus, after all doesn't want to become Garagos the God of Rapine and Mindless Fury. So while he benefits from garagos, he wants it seperate. Sort of the same situation with Velsharoon. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 10:51:55
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*shakes head* Charles, I am no moderator (thank goodness), but you should re-read your posts to see if they could be insulting.
As for Velsharoon, he wasn't assigned the job of God of Necromancy by Mystra. Powers & Pantheons states that much, and I doubt Faiths & Pantheons retrofits that aspect, either.
That Velsharoon 'works' for Azuth is more a convenience to him than it is for Azuth. Velsharoon basically tries to get 'away' from whatshisface because (and I am too lazy to check the name right now) he tried to use up Velsharoon's divine power very quickly...
As for Velsharoon wanting to become prime god of Thay, unlikely, why should he bother? He is more ambitious. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 11:14:58
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Well he's got a long way to climb up.
And sometimes I'm surprised merely how the assumption is things aren't interpreted to be humorous on these boards.
There's a remarkable amount of ill feelings floating around.
I hope I can lighten that |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5696 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 11:37:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Well he's got a long way to climb up.
And sometimes I'm surprised merely how the assumption is things aren't interpreted to be humorous on these boards.
There's a remarkable amount of ill feelings floating around.
I hope I can lighten that
Well met
Aye, there has been too many conflicts of late, and i'd like to see it all put aside. Afterall, we're here to discuss Realmslore, remember  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 12:16:17
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Humor works either with a tone of voice or the choice of words... check Pratchett out if you're just looking for words ;-)
Oh and I just remembered the name of Velsharoon's sponsor: Talos...must have slipped me mind, too much stuff in my head as it is, I need some external storage unit for all them thoughts |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2006 : 18:12:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Wooley, I never expected you to read your Realmslore. I was giving a gentle reminder of a fact I'm sure you were fully aware of. There's no need to get steamed, I'm fairly sure it was simply one of those random brain blips we all have. Please take no offense.
Also, I thought Ed chose to have his campaign simply not have the Time of Troubles by assent. I stand corrected otherwise.
But while Mystra is God of Magic, I do think that the alignments of such alway do impact their porfolios. Tempus, after all doesn't want to become Garagos the God of Rapine and Mindless Fury. So while he benefits from garagos, he wants it seperate. Sort of the same situation with Velsharoon.
Garagos isn't the God of Rapine, as far as I know. Where is that info related? If that was meant as a "light-hearted" remark, please note that in your comments. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2006 : 18:31:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
*shakes head* Charles, I am no moderator (thank goodness), but you should re-read your posts to see if they could be insulting.
As for Velsharoon, he wasn't assigned the job of God of Necromancy by Mystra. Powers & Pantheons states that much, and I doubt Faiths & Pantheons retrofits that aspect, either.
That Velsharoon 'works' for Azuth is more a convenience to him than it is for Azuth. Velsharoon basically tries to get 'away' from whatshisface because (and I am too lazy to check the name right now) he tried to use up Velsharoon's divine power very quickly...
As for Velsharoon wanting to become prime god of Thay, unlikely, why should he bother? He is more ambitious.
I agree. Velsharoon plays Talos and Azuth against each other wonderfully, flitting between the two almost like Mask, spinning his webs of deceit and intrigue.
I also agree with what Wooly said about "regional gods" - the whole idea is quite absurd. Let's remember that EVERYONE knows the gods exist, and EVERYONE also knows that it doesn't hurt to pay homage to as many of them as one can. A farmer in Featherdale wouldn't probably convert to a "God of the Dalelands" - even if this god would promise to keep his fields safe from the storms of Talos, protect him from the beasts of Malar, grant him as bountiful harvests as Chauntea, etc. Not even, if this same god would be his ascended adventurer brother/cousin/uncle/ancestor  (referring here to your comments about the Wyvernspurs)
Following this same line of thought - why would Velsharoon even bother trying to convert the various specialist wizards among the Red Wizards to his cause? They are a small (although powerful, I do not deny that) group of people, who follow a diverse set of deities (Mystra, Savras, Azuth, Cyric, and Kossuth). Any "forceful" attemps would result in the wrath of those same deities, and he couldn't risk that.
I rather see Velsharoon trying to slowly manipulate his way to the same position that Myrkul held (drawing on some of Kelemvor's worhship in the long run). Maybe it takes centuries, but certainly he looks the part, so maybe he could convert some of ex-Myrkulites. Maybe some that now venetrate Kelemvor, feel somewhat betrayed by the Lord of the Dead's attitude towards Undeath. Maybe some of Cyricists feel that since their Lord is no longer a Death God, they should reconsider if the Mad God is the right patron for them. Velsharoon could certainly "worm his way" into many such black hearts. Not to mention that establishing shrines/temples on the ruins of Myrkul's abandoned sites of worship might enable him (and his clergy) to draw on some "extra oomph". I also see him ordering his clergy and worshippers to gather as many Myrkulite artifacts/magic items as only possible. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
Edited by - Asgetrion on 16 Apr 2006 18:32:05 |
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Villains in Novels
