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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 11:15:58
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I would love to see more on Larloch.
Plus, as I mentioned way earlier in the thread, I'd love to see how and why someone comes to worship an evil deity... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 11:18:57
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To do that, I think we need to establish the benefits of them. For me, most evil cults are probably like mercenary bands or bandits. They get rich, get benefits from their priest, and do whatever they like. It's not like evil gods make evil anymore common...it just has benefits for the evil.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 11:20:23
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| That was part of the initial discussion, what makes n evil person tick...there will be EVIL yardsales of course, to quote Richard, I think ;-) |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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MaskedOne
Acolyte
42 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 00:12:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I'd also like to establish that Manshoon is one of the most powerful mages in the Realms, even Chosen like Elminster fear him, and might even enjoy a plot where Manshoon passes up a chance to be a Chosen because he wants to be beholden to no deity.
I wouldn't mind seeing Manshoon portrayed as more scary than what I've seen in most of the novels but I don't really see El fearing him. El had killed him a little over twenty times by the beginning of the Time of Troubles if my memory of his comment in Shadows of Doom is accurate. Manshoon is powerful and cunnning. El does give him credit for that on rare occasions but I don't see El fearing him and he really isn't one of the strongest roaming around. He's very close to being one of the strongest and is more than capable of handling most adversaries but he still isn't quite into El or the Simbul's weight class (or Shoon or Larloch's for that matter).
On the subject of villains that I'd like to see more about, I'd like to see more about Hesperdan. |
Edited by - MaskedOne on 08 Apr 2006 00:15:01 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 03:00:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
El's killed manshoon many times but Manshoon only has to kill him once.
Yup, El killed Manshoon dozens of times and Manshoon always returns through his stasis clones. El never really found a way to track Manshoon stasis clones despite numerous attempts. El can never be rid of this great villain.
For Manshoon, I am certain this villain had attempted many sophisticated ways and spells to get rid of El but somehow Manshoon always ended up the sore loser and El walking out of the fight with barely a scratch. Manshoon despite all his powerful spells, is a bit lacking in behind El. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 03:29:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I would love to see more on Larloch.
Plus, as I mentioned way earlier in the thread, I'd love to see how and why someone comes to worship an evil deity...
Larloch? Good villain to focus on. While his history is well established, Larloch hardly seemed the very active villain type for he hardly paid any attention to anything outside his den. To really get Larloch up would require a powerful villain whose power in on par with the Lich. It was mentioned in Shandril Book 3 that Larloch sensed an powerful opponent stirring and was quite unpleased by it.
Focusing on Larloch would be quite difficult especially since it is well known he is an isolationist. A novel focusing on Larloch's lifestyle and history would be rather boring and so does the horror tales from adventurers entering his den.
Rather, a novel on Larloch should focus on his incredible powers, his enigmatic personality and thinking. Also to make him more appealing, something is needed would be an event to kick him up into action and make him a bit more engaging. Wouldn't it be true that Larloch is indeed worthy of the title of "Lich King"? Afterall he is King of Liches and grand master of necromancy.
If a plot is needed for such a famous Lich, it would be a plot of realm-shaking epic proportions or planar-shaking epic proportions. For small scale plots are practically insulting the intelligence and honor of such a great lich.
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
If I wanted to give a plot, the best plot for me would be to see Ssass Tam destroy Velsharoon.
A good recomendation but Velsharoon is a god of necromancy so it is likely Szass Tam might be "outgunned" by Velsharoon in necromancy and wisdom, maybe even squashed like a bug by Velsharoon through his divine wrath.
Rather, a novel about Szass Tam should focus on his plans for Faerun-surely every Zulkir have visions for their own Faerun- and how he plans to subvert the neighbouring realms through the Red Wizard Enclaves or work his ingenious necromantic magics for some epic plot across the lands with the aid of other gods of undead. It is also said that Szass Tam possess interesting magic weapons and a few are given by Larloch to Szass Tam. But it is a pity that there is no official talk on how Szass Tam uses the weapons given to him. I honestly believe a plot of epic major proportions is needed for Szass Tam.
Another villain that is quite ignored is Telamont, this enigmatic archwizard had a lot of potential as a supervillain but sadly there isn't much focused on him other than the RotA-which depicted him in a wrong way.
Since Telamont is rumored to be made of pure Shadowstuff and even the Chosen feared to pump him with Silverfire for fear of tearing a rift in the dimensional fabric, besides that, this archwizard is also very powerful in the field of magic and perhaps mental power-as he managed to tame a dracolich-Telamont is already worthy of being a villain to stand up to the realm's goodly heroes of supermagic power. Rather than having novels focusing on the politics his sons have with each other and harhrune, it would be better to focus on this engimatic silent calm villain. Since Telamont favors subtlety, a small to moderate scale plot would fit this villain just nicely.
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We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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MaskedOne
Acolyte
42 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 04:00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Yup, El killed Manshoon dozens of times and Manshoon always returns through his stasis clones. El never really found a way to track Manshoon stasis clones despite numerous attempts. El can never be rid of this great villain.
I always took that as simply being a case of it would take too much time to hunt down the clones scattered across several worlds and as such kept being put off in favor of more immediate concerns. Either way though, Manshoon isn't likely to be killed (permanently) in the near future. I just don't consider him to be someone El truly fears. Respects the abilities of maybe but not someone El fears. |
Edited by - MaskedOne on 08 Apr 2006 04:02:38 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 04:00:36
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Well I think the point is that Ssass Tam is smart enough to maneuver even a demigod like Velsharoon to his doom.
The point of Forgotten Realms is that the gods are vulnerable after all.
Telamont I'm not sure is capable of being a good villain given his utter petty and vindictive portrayal in the story.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 04:05:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Well I think the point is that Ssass Tam is smart enough to maneuver even a demigod like Velsharoon to his doom.
The point of Forgotten Realms is that the gods are vulnerable after all.
Telamont I'm not sure is capable of being a good villain given his utter petty and vindictive portrayal in the story.
To challenge the gods over their positions would require an great epic feat by Szass Tam and doing so might persuade more revolutionary changes to the Pantheon. I would rather see Velsharoon stay than Szass Tam in power.
Telamont was never considered a "good" villain though he provided aid to Evereska, it was mere desire for vengeance against the phaerimm that he did that. Even so, he got Evereska damaged heavily through the shadowshell. That's why I said Telamont was portrayed wrongly in the RotA and amends must be made to restore his image. Neverthelesss, I hold fast to the faith that Telamont would make an ideal enigmatic potential villian. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 04:45:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Well I think the point is that Ssass Tam is smart enough to maneuver even a demigod like Velsharoon to his doom.
Not without divine help. To destroy a deity requires divine assistance. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 07:51:35
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Yes but its not like that's difficult.
Hell, just ask any god to raise their hand if they want to see Velsharoon destroyed.
You'd get like 40 answers.
I also suspect that Ssass Tam has no desire for godhood since he wants to keep his kingdom. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 09:49:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
To do that, I think we need to establish the benefits of them. For me, most evil cults are probably like mercenary bands or bandits. They get rich, get benefits from their priest, and do whatever they like. It's not like evil gods make evil anymore common...it just has benefits for the evil.
I semi-agree. A worshipper of ANY deity, be it a real world or a fictional one, doesn't necessarily ask for benefits. "The Church of Torm offers very good dental care and your children, when you attend service, are well cared for..." shya right.
Again 'tis all a matter of perspective. For worshippers of any deity, their god is good. So I want to see WHY. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 09:54:02
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Actually, that's partially a modern view I tend to think of.
In countless societies you have people who only go to the Temple of Aphrodite or what not when they want a child or someone to fall in love with them.
Of course, there's never been a clear answer I think about the difference between faiths that utterly exclude the worship of other gods, 'patron' deities, and deities who are worshipped as a pantheon.
Or if there has, I haven't seen it.
I will admit that perhaps taking down Velsharoon may be beyond Szass Tam but it strikes me the two could be natural enemies. Szass Tam is the only thing standing in the way of the Necromancer God becoming the Patron Deity of all Necromancers of Thay as well as God of All Red Wizards. Velsharoon could become a Lesser God overnight if he could destroy Tam. However, Tam has the protection of Larloch (who could be a deity any time he wanted) and also his patron god of Bane.
It's a conflict I'd love to see explored honestly from both ends. Especially since I think its fairly clear that Velsharoon was the lesser of the two wizards in life. Szass Tam is lord of all he surveys and while Velsharoon is far more powerful now, he's also the least of the fish in the pond.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 10:24:13
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| Charles, a 'modern' viewpoint is not right for any sort of fantasy fiction, actually. Unless you stick it all on a map, after you juggle the parts of the countries in a box for a while. THEN you can have harsh northlands next to arabic sort of countries. People, real or fictional, need to have reasons for doing something. On asking most RL people would probably answer that they go to *insert random church here* because their parents are doing it. Peer pressure can be a very powerful force. Yet I would *love* to see a sort of prophet of Talos, for example. Someone who has been touched by the divine and seen the good of Talos, so to speak. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 10:43:16
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Uh Yeah...
I agree. A modern viewpoint is wrong.
Hence why people probably in the world of FR are like the Old Peoples of the World and incorporate other gods into their beliefs.
Why would I support a modern view (which I think was your implication)? That would make no sense in a Medieval and Pre-Medieval themed world.
I also always assumed the radical differences in culture was because peoples were more insular due to the mammoth amount of monsters between groups. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 08 Apr 2006 10:44:20 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 11:40:45
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There was enough insularity (if that even is a word) in the middle ages.. hell, there is enough of that even now. You don't need monsters around you to have a very narrowed view of the world.
Then again who is to say we aren't surrounded by monsters as it is? |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 18:02:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Yes but its not like that's difficult.
Hell, just ask any god to raise their hand if they want to see Velsharoon destroyed.
You'd get like 40 answers.
I also suspect that Ssass Tam has no desire for godhood since he wants to keep his kingdom.
I doubt this and besides, they can't kill him without Ao's permission either. Gods usually just don't go around killing other gods without good reasons and there is no way 40 different gods would take it upon themselves to do this. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 19:51:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I will admit that perhaps taking down Velsharoon may be beyond Szass Tam but it strikes me the two could be natural enemies. Szass Tam is the only thing standing in the way of the Necromancer God becoming the Patron Deity of all Necromancers of Thay as well as God of All Red Wizards. Velsharoon could become a Lesser God overnight if he could destroy Tam. However, Tam has the protection of Larloch (who could be a deity any time he wanted) and also his patron god of Bane.
I don't see why they would be natural enemies... After all, they do have the common points of being (or having been) Red Wizard liches. The only reason they have to be enemies is the fact that Velsharoon tried to destroy Szass Tam in the past... If it was to Tam's benefit, I can readily see him allying (at least temporarily) with Velly or his followers.
How is Tam keeping Velsharoon from being the patron of all Thayan necromancers? Just because Tam worships someone else, that doesn't mean he can force other Thayan necromancers to worship (or not worship) specific deities. Szass Tam could certainly oppose the building of a temple to Velsharoon in Thay, but I can't see him doing much more than that.
And just how is taking out a single non-divine spellslinger going to bump Velsharoon up to lesser deity? It doesn't work that way... And if it did, it surely would have happened by now. Some summoned powerful undead and an avatar of Velly, in a surprise attack, would have a good chance of taking down Szass Tam. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 20:35:35
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Wooley, I don't think gods have ever worked like that in FR.
Clerics might have rituals to summon avatars but aside from the occasional barmaid that Mad Cyric offs. I don't think gods ever appear to kill people.
And my interpretation was dire enmity and contempt between the two. I could be wrong. Suffice to say though, if Szass Tam doesn't follow Velsharoon it pretty much is the example none should and if he falls then all of Thay is likely to fall in line.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 20:48:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Wooley, I don't think gods have ever worked like that in FR.
Clerics might have rituals to summon avatars but aside from the occasional barmaid that Mad Cyric offs. I don't think gods ever appear to kill people.
Yup. But that still fails to explain why you think Velly offing Szass Tam would immediately bump him up a notch. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 21:08:01
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If Velsharoon brings down Ssass Tam whomever becomes Zulkir of Necromancy afterwards is likely going to be someone willing to do whatever the Thayan God of Necromancy says or at the very least worship him. Szass Tam's portrayals basically indicate he seems to be unafraid of most of the gods.
Hell, the new Zulkir could compell Velsharoon worship amongst the Necromancers and possibly all of Thay itself if the next Zulkir is willing to make a deal with the deity. Kossuth may be a popularly worshipped God but Velsharoon strikes me as one whom is perfectly willing to change state religions irregardless of former pacts. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 08 Apr 2006 21:08:17 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 22:03:31
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I disagree. Just because your predecessor was bumped off by a particular deity, that doesn't mean you're going to worship that deity.
And just because a Zulkir says "Hey, worship this deity!" it doesn't mean it will happen... Red Wizards are a fractious lot. If commanding them was so simple, then a simple "Hey, follow the spirit of my commands and don't oppose me!" order would unite the Reds into a powerful force that would sweep the Simbul and anyone else aside in a second. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 02:13:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
If Velsharoon brings down Ssass Tam whomever becomes Zulkir of Necromancy afterwards is likely going to be someone willing to do whatever the Thayan God of Necromancy says or at the very least worship him. Szass Tam's portrayals basically indicate he seems to be unafraid of most of the gods.
I doubt Velsharoon eagers for Szass Tam downfall, if so, for what purpose when there are more powerful liches like Aumvor and Larloch lazying around and doing nothing. Even so, Zulkirs are appointed by the wizards of the school and I am certain that Velsharoon would have to remove this and that person to ensure his puppet will ascend the seat but such action would be below a god to do so. Also, the puppet Zulkir will face serious challenge from the other Zulkirs as politics among Red Wizards are rife and "first thing one do every morning". I believe Szass Tam knows his own limits and doesn't flaunt his limitations openly nor show it, he unlikely had the guts and insanity to do what Karsus did.
quote:
Hell, the new Zulkir could compell Velsharoon worship amongst the Necromancers and possibly all of Thay itself if the next Zulkir is willing to make a deal with the deity. Kossuth may be a popularly worshipped God but Velsharoon strikes me as one whom is perfectly willing to change state religions irregardless of former pacts.
Among all the necromancers? Unless there are some mind-washing or will-controlling ritual involved to change the necromancers into Velsharoon's Fanatics, otherwise they will remain defiant. All of Thay praying to Velsharoon? I seriously doubt so, the Thayans are too materialistic to worship and enjoy dusty and decaying life with the undead. They are more likely to go up in arms against someone trying to enforce "worship the undead" lifestyle on them.
Kossuth is a God of Fire, and Fire burns even the most hardy undead, Velsharoon skirts a very thin line if her were to go up against Kossuth without igniting Kossuth's wrath. Velsharoon would need the help of the Gods of Fury-especially Talos, to ensure a fail-safe operation.
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We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 02:20:12
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Mystra would probably support Velsharoon if Velsharoon were to adopt himself the patronage of "Red Wizards" as part of his porfolio. National deities are rare for good reason but Velsharoon has nowhere to go but up.
The only reason he's only a god of Necromancy is that none of the other porfolios are open and Mystra considers him a 'dump' for her evil aspects. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 02:44:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Mystra would probably support Velsharoon if Velsharoon were to adopt himself the patronage of "Red Wizards" as part of his porfolio. National deities are rare for good reason but Velsharoon has nowhere to go but up.
The Red Wizards each focus on different aspects of magic-Evocation, Divination, Conjuration and etc. Worshipping a god of necromancy simply would conflict with their ideals, their work and plans for their magic and politics. Also, a necro god doesn't fit for a red wizard who likes fire and enjoys playing with fire compared to a red wizard who loves corpses and enjoys sleeping with corpses.
Velsharoon as a national deity for Thay would be highly unlikely as there are other gods who may contest Velsharoon for dominance over the mortals worship. Mystra can't force the Thayans to worship Velsharoon as that is below her and even so, she is wary of Velsharoon and isn't overly fond of him to really back him totally.
quote:
The only reason he's only a god of Necromancy is that none of the other porfolios are open and Mystra considers him a 'dump' for her evil aspects.
Huh? Then I wonder how come Azuth is not considered as a "dump" for Mystra besides Velsharoon. The new Mystra isn't really overfond of Azuth compared to the old Mystra. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 03:43:44
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Azuth is Lawful Neutral and Doesn't care about Good or Evil with regards to Magic. However, I think you need on some level an evil god of Magic. Mystra certainly doesn't want mass defections to Shar.
Also, while you have a point about Mass Conversion, I can't imagine that the idea of a Red Wizard God won't appeal to the almost Master Race like delusions the Red Wizards have about themselves and their position in the world.
And certainly getting the Porfolio of Red Wizardry would make Velsharoon more likely to be worshipped by the Thayans. Frankly, I don't think his necromantic aspects would be his draw to most Red Wizards that worshipped him, it'd be the fact he's a THAYAN God.
Not a foreign god but one from their own ranks.
I also think that while Mystra's relationship with Azuth is a bit strained, it's hardly antagonistic. Azuth is certainly no more cruel or dark than Kelemvor. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 10 Apr 2006 03:44:22 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 03:45:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
The only reason he's only a god of Necromancy is that none of the other porfolios are open and Mystra considers him a 'dump' for her evil aspects.
Huh?
Mystra had nothing to do with his ascension -- so it's unlikely that she considers him a dump for anything. As for other portfolios, who's the god of abjuration? Who's the god of evocation? Who's the god of enchantment? And broadening from the magic portfolios, who's the god of mischief?
He's a god of necromancy because it's his interest -- not because it was handy or because someone wanted to use him as their evil twin. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 03:55:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Azuth is Lawful Neutral and Doesn't care about Good or Evil with regards to Magic. However, I think you need on some level an evil god of Magic. Mystra certainly doesn't want mass defections to Shar.
Why do we need an evil god of magic? Mystra isn't good, so we don't have a good god of magic...
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Also, while you have a point about Mass Conversion, I can't imagine that the idea of a Red Wizard God won't appeal to the almost Master Race like delusions the Red Wizards have about themselves and their position in the world.
Yeah, except for the fact that they don't pay too much attention to deities... And if they did, would they all worship the same one? Nope, because where's the advantage in that? I can't get a leg up on that guy from my deity if we're both worshipping the same one...
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
And certainly getting the Porfolio of Red Wizardry would make Velsharoon more likely to be worshipped by the Thayans. Frankly, I don't think his necromantic aspects would be his draw to most Red Wizards that worshipped him, it'd be the fact he's a THAYAN God.
Not a foreign god but one from their own ranks.
Since we do we have a portfolio of an individual organization? Do we next get a god of the Zhentarim, a god of the Rundeen, a god of the Harpers, a god of the Twisted Rune, and a god of the Cooper's Guild of Suzail? Getting portfolios of groups is not a workable idea, unless you want about 8,000,001 minor little deities running around.
And a god that was local getting worship because of that? Then all folk in Immersea need to worship Finder, since he's a local. All Zhents need to convert back to Cyric...
You don't follow a deity because of where they are from. You follow a god because their outlook on life and the world matches yours. If you want everyone around you to be undead, then yeah, worship Velsharoon. If that's not what you want, you don't worship him. It doesn't matter if he dated your sister or was your roommate in wizard school -- if his nature does not match your own, you don't worship him.
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I also think that while Mystra's relationship with Azuth is a bit strained, it's hardly antagonistic. Azuth is certainly no more cruel or dark than Kelemvor.
Strained? Where do you get that? He was her first Magister. She helped him ascend. He spent the ToT guarding a statue of her. Strained? I don't see that... |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2006 : 04:16:58
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quote:
Why do we need an evil god of magic? Mystra isn't good, so we don't have a good god of magic...
*checks Faiths and Pantheons* Neutral Good.
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Strained? Where do you get that? He was her first Magister. She helped him ascend. He spent the ToT guarding a statue of her. Strained? I don't see that...
Wooley, there's this thing called the Time of Troubles....
I know that many (Ed Greenwood included) ignore it...but...
Mystra is dead. Midnight is the new Mystra.
Re: Velsharoon
You raise good points but basically, I point to Tiamat as goddess of a certain region beside Unther and the previous local god of the region before she subsumed him. Regional deities are pretty rare but they aren't unheard of. Also, the Red Wizards are pretty much a race to their own view of things as well as an organization and nationality. It's a unique situation I don't think would be duplicated by anyone.
I do admit though that I'm surprised the Wyvernspur family doesn't wholesale adopt Finder as their god. |
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 10 Apr 2006 04:21:23 |
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Villains in Novels
