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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 04:07:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
And has any reason been given for why she seemingly never enters Reverie? I remember that from both Depths of Madness as well as this story, but I can't remember a reason ever being given.
Good question! And no--the answer is no. 
No reason has ever been explicitly stated . . . but it probably has something to do with being in touch/out of touch with her elven heritage. She can manage Reverie sometimes, but not all the time.
Sage? Theories? 
Hmmm... I'm not sure. I'd have to think about this, and weigh any potential response against what we do know about Twilight's heritage. Let me get back to you! 
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 04:27:39
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I think it has to do with the ability to enter the reverie as being completely elven experience and since Twilight is rarely in a mental state where she can be called complete, she rarely enters reverie.
However I would expect that may change a bit, as I see Gargan being a stabilizing force in her life. If she allows him to be that is. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 22:04:09
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| Maybe she actually prefers sleep to an extent? *shrugs* |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 23:09:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
And has any reason been given for why she seemingly never enters Reverie? I remember that from both Depths of Madness as well as this story, but I can't remember a reason ever being given.
Good question! And no--the answer is no.
No reason has ever been explicitly stated . . . but it probably has something to do with being in touch/out of touch with her elven heritage. She can manage Reverie sometimes, but not all the time.
Sage? Theories?
Hmmm... I'm not sure. I'd have to think about this, and weigh any potential response against what we do know about Twilight's heritage. Let me get back to you!
Right. Having had a bit more time to think about this...
Ultimately, I think Twilight's lack of reliance on the elven practice of Reverie could have a lot to do with the fact that she is a deeply "internalised" individual. As we've seen in the book, Twilight tends to become somewhat insular, at times, especially when confronted with situations that force her to deal with personal issues. That type of psychological insight would, I believe, impact upon her desire to enter Reverie. And we've established in our previous discussions how the character of Twilight, through Depths, seems to, intentionally at times, isolate herself. She often prevents herself from making physical connections with others. And we've said how this may extend to her mental realm as well -- in that, Twilight will usually try to avoid becoming too emotionally involved with those around her. Reverie tends to bring elves together with their thoughts... to the point of sharing them with other elves. And this is counter to how Twilight considers her psychological self. She'd rather keep her thoughts and feelings inside her where she can manage them -- without the need to process such information, with others, through Reverie.
Another possibility may revolve around the aspect of Reverie that allows elves to replay past events in their lives. This could be why Twilight refuses to regularly engage in Reverie -- she simply has no wish to reflect over the portions of her life that she either tries hard to forget, or wishes never to have happened. The desire for denial can be a powerful motivational force.
Another theory, and this is kind of stretching things, could reflect why Twilight sometimes has difficulty defining her sense of self. Her mother may also have avoided Reverie, or not engaged in it as regularly as other elves. Certainly, this would've stunted Twilight's psychological growth while she was still inside her mother. It may have reduced what she had been taught, about her place in elven society, by her mother while still in the womb.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 25 Nov 2007 23:13:55 |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 23:24:22
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Ultimately, I think Twilight's lack of reliance on the elven practice of Reverie could have a lot to do with the fact that she is a deeply "internalised" individual. As we've seen in the book, Twilight tends to become somewhat insular, at times, especially when confronted with situations that force her to deal with personal issues. That type of psychological insight would, I believe, impact upon her desire to enter Reverie. And we've established in our previous discussions how the character of Twilight, through Depths, seems to, intentionally at times, isolate herself. She often prevents herself from making physical connections with others. And we've said how this may extend to her mental realm as well -- in that, Twilight will usually try to avoid becoming too emotionally involved with those around her. Reverie tends to bring elves together with their thoughts... to the point of sharing them with other elves. And this is counter to how Twilight considers her psychological self. She'd rather keep her thoughts and feelings inside her where she can manage them -- without the need to process such information, with others, through Reverie.
Good point, and I think that this would be the mark, here. IMO, Twilight is doing the opposite walk that Liriel did (learning how to dream, in the Starlight and Shadows trilogy): walking an internal path, that lead her to her self-knowledge - or the absence of it. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2007 : 15:25:40
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Mm-mmm, excellent thoughts, guys! I wonder how much of Twilight's choice is conscious and how much is automatic? (How much of it might be avoiding the past or her heritage, and how much of it might be unconscious rejection?)
I'm rather intrigued by Sage's speculation about Twilight's mother--we don't know anything about her parents or her young life, after all. Anything is possible!
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Heh, as a straight woman I have to say I still find Johnny Depp sexier.
Heh, as a straight MAN I'm undecided on the issue. (swoon!)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2007 : 15:59:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Mm-mmm, excellent thoughts, guys! I wonder how much of Twilight's choice is conscious and how much is automatic? (How much of it might be avoiding the past or her heritage, and how much of it might be unconscious rejection?)
Great question, and one that's hard to answer. You could ask that question about a lot of choices that any person might make. Whatever the answer is, I'm pretty sure it's based on emotion more than rationality.
quote:
Heh, as a straight MAN I'm undecided on the issue. (swoon!)
HA! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2007 : 00:52:14
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Time for more lengthy discussion...
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Mm-mmm, excellent thoughts, guys! I wonder how much of Twilight's choice is conscious and how much is automatic? (How much of it might be avoiding the past or her heritage, and how much of it might be unconscious rejection?)
Well, it could be a little of both.
And I believe Rino has a point with it being more about emotion than any true rational process. Granted, we've only seen snippets of Twilight's actual emotional state in the stories. But her entire emotional make-up may be just another facet of her personality that she hides behind the apparent fickle-like qualities she often employs. Which are themselves merely part of the "special" relationship she has with Erevan. While she may often despise the other elements that come with that relationship, I think that, in a way, she secretly views those fickle-like qualities as a convenient wall for her to hide behind.
Anyways... I'm getting off track. In the past, we've talked about the psychological impact Twilight's shadowdancing ability has on her mental state. Her hesitation regarding entering Reverie could be about the same thing. Avoiding Reverie is just another way she's able to erect other intentional (or unintentional) "walls" around herself as a means of isolating her being from, perhaps, not only others, but her own thoughts as well.
Her conscious choice may be about her past and her elven heritage. For all we know, something about her past and her heritage "pushed" her into the role she now has and the "unique" place she has in Erevan's "faithful." Consciously rejecting all of that provides Twilight with some measure of mental comfort -- that she has some control over her "apparently directionless" life.
With regard to her unconscious rejection, I think we may have to come back to her mother and what I said earlier about the lack of Twilight's sense of self. She just doesn't have any need or desire to think about her mother because the relationship she, perhaps, should've had with her mother, never actually developed.
quote:
I'm rather intrigued by Sage's speculation about Twilight's mother--we don't know anything about her parents or her young life, after all. Anything is possible!
To expand upon my initial ramblings...
What I meant there was, that if her own mother also intentionally avoided entering Reverie, then perhaps Twilight didn't receive the necessary emotional molding that infant elves usually receive while still in the womb. There may not have been any actual bonding between mother and child.
Thus, Twilight's own lack of a sense of self, could've derived from her intentionally distancing herself from her elven heritage -- since she felt little need to care about it. While, at the same time, subconsciouly avoiding any memory of her mother and her early childhood. This may simply have been because her early development was marked by the distant relationships she had with what should have been the two most important things in her life at the time -- her mother and her elven heritage.
This may all be something that Twilight has no wish to review or think about as part of the practice of Reverie. And so, it's easier for her to avoid it.
Additionally, this extends the question of why Twilight avoids entering Reverie, onto her mother as well. But, since we've little true details on Twilight's parents... we can only speculate. Hopefully, there'll be a time when there will be enough details for us to discuss this particular aspect of Twilight's childhood as well.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 27 Nov 2007 00:54:52 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2007 : 23:31:13
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Ooh! What brilliant stuff that man comes up with, I tell ya.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Time for more lengthy discussion...
But her entire emotional make-up may be just another facet of her personality that she hides behind the apparent fickle-like qualities she often employs. Which are themselves merely part of the "special" relationship she has with Erevan. While she may often despise the other elements that come with that relationship, I think that, in a way, she secretly views those fickle-like qualities as a convenient wall for her to hide behind.
Twilight is exceedingly good at projecting walls and deceptions, like webs, to keep anyone from getting close to her. Why this is (and what it has to do with Erevan) is yet a mystery. 
quote:
What I meant there was, that if her own mother also intentionally avoided entering Reverie, then perhaps Twilight didn't receive the necessary emotional molding that infant elves usually receive while still in the womb. There may not have been any actual bonding between mother and child.
Thus, Twilight's own lack of a sense of self, could've derived from her intentionally distancing herself from her elven heritage -- since she felt little need to care about it. While, at the same time, subconsciouly avoiding any memory of her mother and her early childhood. This may simply have been because her early development was marked by the distant relationships she had with what should have been the two most important things in her life at the time -- her mother and her elven heritage.
Sage, you've totally made me open up a whole new area of speculation about Twilight's early family life in my head. I wonder!
quote:
This may all be something that Twilight has no wish to review or think about as part of the practice of Reverie. And so, it's easier for her to avoid it.
And that's the ticket--it's so much easier for Twilight to keep running and running, rather than turning around and facing her problems. She lies to everyone, but the biggest lies she reserves for herself.
quote:
Additionally, this extends the question of why Twilight avoids entering Reverie, onto her mother as well. But, since we've little true details on Twilight's parents... we can only speculate. Hopefully, there'll be a time when there will be enough details for us to discuss this particular aspect of Twilight's childhood as well.
Hey, if you guys demand it, and loudly enough, then it will happen. (And I'll be quite pleased as well!)
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 00:25:42
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I demand it, Erik! In what ear I have to scream? I need to bring my waraxe and my hoopak?
Excellent ideas, Sage. You make me look at Twilight for a brand new perspective.
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Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
Edited by - Chosen of Moradin on 28 Nov 2007 00:33:13 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 01:14:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
I demand it, Erik! In what ear I have to scream? I need to bring my waraxe and my hoopak?
Excellent ideas, Sage. You make me look at Twilight for a brand new perspective.
I can't say that I have ever seen (or heard of!) someone dual-wielding a waraxe and a hoopak!
Sounds like something Mr. de Bie could work with |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 13:43:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Ooh! What brilliant stuff that man comes up with, I tell ya.
It's only because you've given me so much to think about in the first place!
quote:
Twilight is exceedingly good at projecting walls and deceptions, like webs, to keep anyone from getting close to her. Why this is (and what it has to do with Erevan) is yet a mystery.
The "Erevan connection" is what I'm really curious about. I've got one or two budding theories on this already... but I'm not sure they're ready for public scrutiny just yet. 
quote:
Sage, you've totally made me open up a whole new area of speculation about Twilight's early family life in my head. I wonder!
Neat. I'd loved to see where you go with it all.
quote:
And that's the ticket--it's so much easier for Twilight to keep running and running, rather than turning around and facing her problems. She lies to everyone, but the biggest lies she reserves for herself.
This is one of the major parts of Twilight's character that, I think, really conveys the "realism" of her personality. It's an aspect that we can all relate to -- since we've all, at one time or another, probably felt the need to reserve the biggest lie/s for ourselves. 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 16:50:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
I demand it, Erik! In what ear I have to scream?
Well, if you really, *really* like a character in any book, the first step would be exactly what you're doing now, talking with others about the character, posting theories, generating excitement and buzz. Partly because this will get people to want to read about that character, and partly because publishers will see it and want to capitalize on it.
(Erevis Cale, for instance--who is not only a fabulous character but also has a strong internet following. People demand more Cale from Kemp, buy Cale books, and WotC obliges--Cale is on his second trilogy now!)
Your second step would be posting an internet review of one or more books with that character, and writing your review to praise that character and DEMAND more.
The third would be convincing all your friends and everyone you can to buy copies of books with that character.
The fourth would be writing letters to Wizards of the Coast begging for more of that character. (Note: I can't say as that would really work, but it would make you feel better!)
And the fifth is to be patient. Good characters--particularly those who sell books--recur.
And who knows? Perhaps one day we'll see Twilight on the cover of a novel, in all her sexy strength and vulnerability. :)
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I can't say that I have ever seen (or heard of!) someone dual-wielding a waraxe and a hoopak!
Sounds like something Mr. de Bie could work with
Well, I *did* plan Ghostwalker in part to challenge myself to depict someone fighting with a gyrspike. So anything is possible.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
This is one of the major parts of Twilight's character that, I think, really conveys the "realism" of her personality. It's an aspect that we can all relate to -- since we've all, at one time or another, probably felt the need to reserve the biggest lie/s for ourselves.
And . . . it's very rare that someone comes into Twilight's life who is able to cut through her defenses and show her the truth about herself.
Note my use of the word "rare," rather than "unheard of."
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 28 Nov 2007 16:52:29 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 16:57:52
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| I'd love to see Twilight on a book cover. I'm surprised she wasn't on the cover of this particular novel, even though I did like the picture of the gold elf. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 18:46:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I'd love to see Twilight on a book cover. I'm surprised she wasn't on the cover of this particular novel, even though I did like the picture of the gold elf.
In a sense I'm a little nervous about an artistic version of her. Will she be how I visualize her? And who would it be who drew her?
I think, for instance, that Todd Lockwood nailed Drizzt like nobody's business, but some people prefer Elmore's Drizzt.
It's interesting to ponder, and much like how I reacted to the GW cover (which I love) and the DoM cover (which I find wickedly deceitful).
Interesting story, the DoM cover could have been Twilight in the same situation, which could have been a little confusing continuity-wise, but I think it kinda works out better this way.
And . . . back on tGT!
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 20:51:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
And . . . it's very rare that someone comes into Twilight's life who is able to cut through her defenses and show her the truth about herself.
Note my use of the word "rare," rather than "unheard of."
Cheers
About as rare as a Goliath traversing the realms with an enigmatic, confused elf rare eh? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2007 : 06:19:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
And . . . it's very rare that someone comes into Twilight's life who is able to cut through her defenses and show her the truth about herself.
Note my use of the word "rare," rather than "unheard of."
One of the theories I mentioned above suggests the possibility that Erevan himself may have been among the first to "cut through Twilight's defenses" and teach her about herself. And that may be why she's partly resentful of the relationship she has with him. She didn't like what she saw, and is frustrated by the fact that there's little she can do to escape from the truth. So she hides from it instead. But Erevan's always there to remind her, however.
I almost felt like Liet may have succeeded somewhat, as well. Especially given [spoiler--highlight to read] Twilight's reaction to his death at the end of Depths. As it is, he obviously reached through to *something* in her. And, perhaps, Gargan will eventually succeed in reaching further, or finishing what Liet started:- helping Twilight to trust enough when building relationship with others.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2007 : 17:25:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
And . . . it's very rare that someone comes into Twilight's life who is able to cut through her defenses and show her the truth about herself.
Note my use of the word "rare," rather than "unheard of."
One of the theories I mentioned above suggests the possibility that Erevan himself may have been among the first to "cut through Twilight's defenses" and teach her about herself. And that may be why she's partly resentful of the relationship she has with him. She didn't like what she saw, and is frustrated by the fact that there's little she can do to escape from the truth. So she hides from it instead. But Erevan's always there to remind her, however.
Very insightful!
But I should warn you that mortal/divine interactions are generally quite a bit more complicated . . . I think you'll be very interested (or, that is, *would be* very interested) when you see how it all works out.
quote:
I almost felt like Liet may have succeeded somewhat, as well. Especially given [spoiler--highlight to read] Twilight's reaction to his death at the end of Depths. As it is, he obviously reached through to *something* in her.
Yay! And that only makes it sadder, doesn't it?
quote:
And, perhaps, Gargan will eventually succeed in reaching further, or finishing what Liet started:- helping Twilight to trust enough when building relationship with others.
I guess we'll just have to see.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2007 : 06:38:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
But I should warn you that mortal/divine interactions are generally quite a bit more complicated . . . I think you'll be very interested (or, that is, *would be* very interested) when you see how it all works out.
Aye. 'Tis more than likely that Twilight herself doesn't even truly realise the depth of her relationship with Erevan. And given his divine proclivity for trickery... it wouldn't at all surprise me to learn that he's often manipulated Twilight to produce a desired response from her -- probably without her even realising it.
In fact, going back to my earlier speculations about Twilight's mother, I suspect it may even be that Erevan had been watching over her family for a time long before her actual birth. Could her birth and unusual childhood [that we've speculated about previously] have also been the result of Erevan's divine interaction? 'Tis a curious situation to think about.
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Yay! And that only makes it sadder, doesn't it?
Indeed. Which is why her relationship with Gargan will likely be something she'll want to nurture -- in her own way of course. Liet managed to form a breach in her "armor of isolation." And it'll be Gargan's heart and spirit, rather than his physical strength, that she'll be reaching for to help fortify it and keep it open. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 30 Nov 2007 06:46:46 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 21:41:04
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I like Gargan, but the more I think about it I would love to see Twilight ditch him.
I just don't get the feeling that Twilight is a character who should be healed. Her best actions and thoughts occur because she is so emotionaly disjointed.
I just cannot see myself enjoying reading her journey of healing.
I want to be shocked and a bit ticked at her for what she does next!
I could see what Liet "kindled" in her actually make her withdrawl even more and widen the "crack" in her psyche. Not everony can be saved, and I don't think 'Light should be. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2007 : 14:44:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I like Gargan, but the more I think about it I would love to see Twilight ditch him.
The funny thing about this is, I don't think Twilight would actually just "ditch" Gargan. Granted, Twilight has spent a lifetime building walls around herself. But then Liet came along and touched something in her. And I don't believe she'd just willingly deny what happened. Twilight would want Gargan around to help her nurture these feelings. Even if it amounts to nothing more than just making it easier for her to dismiss them later. Even if it makes it easier for her to retreat back behind her walls.
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I just don't get the feeling that Twilight is a character who should be healed. Her best actions and thoughts occur because she is so emotionaly disjointed.
Coming to accept certain feelings about the people now in her life, doesn't necessarily equate with emotional healing. As I said above, Twilight's spent most of her life building her psychological walls. They aren't likely to crumble overnight. It's going to take trust, love, and focus for Twilight to even approach any pathway of healing. And that's assuming she'll want to head down that path when she gets there. How the relationship develops between Twilight and Gargan, may only end up making things worse for her. Twilight may not be ready to confront the type of life that comes with breaking down those emotional walls. She could just as easily end up walking away. What it could come down to is, whether she really wants to confront these feelings and what Liet helped her to discover. Or bury it deeper down. So deep, that not even Gargan can help her to find it.
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I just cannot see myself enjoying reading her journey of healing.
Myself, I'd like to see just the journey itself. Even if she comes so far, only to turn away from it at the end. What a wonderful way to truly underline the tragedy that's inherent in Twilight's character.
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I want to be shocked and a bit ticked at her for what she does next!
Regardless of what path Twilight takes, I get the feeling she'll still find new ways to shock just about everyone!
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I could see what Liet "kindled" in her actually make her withdrawl even more and widen the "crack" in her psyche. Not everony can be saved, and I don't think 'Light should be.
This is an interesting perspective. And it's what I was alluding to above. Even if Twilight does start to nurture what she felt for Liet, and it does make her come out of her shell just a bit... it doesn't necessarily mean she'll want to stay this way. From what we've read about Twilight, she definitely appears warm and comfortable in her shell. It's a psychological embrace that Twilight will probably never be able to properly tear herself away from. It'll always be there... waiting, in the dark, and in those moments when she doubts her new emotionally healthy life. When she feels like she's lying to herself and those around her. Whereupon we, as the readers, will be forced to ask the question... was she ever really saved? Maybe Twilight just found a stronger mortar to use for those emotional walls she thought had been shattered.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 21:19:32
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I think you guys would be/will be very pleased to see where Twilight goes next (that is, assuming, etc, etc). I appreciate all the discourse, and your ideas are very helpful.
I do hope to tell the Gargan/Twilight story one day. Who knows! Maybe some of your predictions/theories will come true.
And speaking of tGT tie-ins, there's also quite a bit of potential for continuation of the Yldar/Cythara story. They might meet one another again, somewhere down the road. Who knows! Sky's the limit.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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riot the outsider
Learned Scribe
USA
121 Posts |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2007 : 00:12:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I think you guys would be/will be very pleased to see where Twilight goes next (that is, assuming, etc, etc). I appreciate all the discourse, and your ideas are very helpful.
I do hope to tell the Gargan/Twilight story one day. Who knows! Maybe some of your predictions/theories will come true.
And speaking of tGT tie-ins, there's also quite a bit of potential for continuation of the Yldar/Cythara story. They might meet one another again, somewhere down the road. Who knows! Sky's the limit.
Cheers
Perhaps Cythara, seeing as how she is digging the dark side, could come across Davoren? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2007 : 03:47:36
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Perhaps Cythara, seeing as how she is digging the dark side, could come across Davoren?
Well, that is entirely possible. Davoren is still kicking around somewhere. And we know it would be at least 12 years separating tGT and a crossover. Who knows what Cythara might have learned of the fiendish in that time?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Akeri Rualuavain
Seeker
Canada
99 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2007 : 07:06:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Perhaps Cythara, seeing as how she is digging the dark side, could come across Davoren?
Well, that is entirely possible. Davoren is still kicking around somewhere. And we know it would be at least 12 years separating tGT and a crossover. Who knows what Cythara might have learned of the fiendish in that time?
Cheers
I'm gonna look like an incult, but who is Davoren. |
Sorry for my bad English, I'm french born
The courage to follow our dreams is the first step to achieve our destiny
The tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo
http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/98/Jul/gazebo.html |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2007 : 07:25:47
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Davoren is a character from Erik's Depths of Madness novel. He serves as an intriguing conception of the "Warlock" character-class in the Realmslore.
Additionally, there is a writeup of Davoren on the Wizards' site -- it could be considered a spoiler of sorts, so you might not want to read it until after you're done with the novel:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070314
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 12 Dec 2007 07:29:27 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2007 : 14:00:09
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| I actually wouldn't mind seeing Ylder again, to see what he's learned in all this time, and if he's changed for the better (that is, become wiser). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2007 : 00:58:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I actually wouldn't mind seeing Ylder again, to see what he's learned in all this time, and if he's changed for the better (that is, become wiser).
Well, he *does* get a +1 ability boost every four levels that could conceivably go to Wisdom.*
I just . . . I just don't know if I can justify it based on his character build. I mean, fighter/wizard/rogue. Not a lot of wisdom-based skills/abilities there. WIS would basically be his dump-stat, followed closely by CHA.
And thus, we have your in-game reason as to why he's such a chump.
Cheers
*That is, at least until 4e FR, which might be a totally different system which will leave him in the lurch. So let's just hope he levels up a bunch before the changeover. |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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riot the outsider
Learned Scribe
USA
121 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2007 : 04:56:04
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| I always liked the idea of Ylder roming the dark halls of towers and dungeons trying to find his sister and trying as he will to get his sister back from the demon that she joined. she blows him off shattering his innocence of her. Than being lost figures out that he doesn't need her and than becomes (because of his fighter and rogueness)becomes a hero of sorts and kills his sister.Well I think you know were I'm going with this. |
Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do. http://s13.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=67846
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Realms of the Elves: "The Greater Treasure"
