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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Jan 2006 : 21:12:56
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I just thought of this upon reading some things such as Khelbun's agreement with Fzoul and the Church of Xvim and the like.
What if Bane didn't really come back?
I mean that this way, what if Xvim purposefully made it look like he was destroyed by his father so as to assume Bane's name and prestige. In fact, he was so willing to try this that he destroyed any faithful followers that would not "convert" to cover this deception.
Why would he do this? Well, deities power level are determed by how they are perceived by mortals. In part, this has to do with those that hold you as patron. In this regard, Xvim had greatly increased his power, especially in making Fzoul his Chosen and making the faith of Xvim the prime religion of the Zhentarim.
But as far as those who just paid lip service to him, or those that might say a prayer to him in supplication, to ward off calamity or his direct interest in their affairs? Most people in the Realms, if they knew of Xvim at all, knew him as Bane's son, and most likely as a demigod that Bane might use for missions here or there. On the other hand, Bane is much more universally known and feared.
In other words, Xvim may have boosted his power by convincing folk not inclinded to hold him as patron to say prayers to him, or at least to boost his power by even thinking of him at all, since they are likely far more concerned about Bane and his mechinations than Xvim. Before Bane came back, most folk likely attributed the Zhentarim's revitalization to Fzoul and to the organization as a whole, rather than to their patron deity.
I know, its a bit radical, but possible?
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2006 : 21:21:47
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You have too much time on your hands I think. If source book says Bane came back, officially Bane came back. *Grin* of course you can do what you want in your own campaign.
As for power of deities, yes perception aparently does effect divine rank as well as other factors. All things are posible, some deities have taken up identities of other deities to increase their number of followers. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2006 : 21:27:38
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| Well, later sourcebooks have amended the heck out of subjects too . . . just look at the arduous explanation of Tiamat and Gilgeam, who won, who died, and what have you. I'm not saying this IS what happened mind you, just that this is something that occured to me that could be possible (and ironically, would make at least one plot thread in my campaign a moot point). |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12020 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 22:51:11
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| Actually, that's a very plausible thing. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 23:07:06
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I Still think KnightErrantJR has too much time on hands as it would wreck own current campaign.
Clearly all things are posible, and deities have a habit of not staying dead. *wink* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 31 Jan 2006 00:49:00 |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2006 : 00:42:47
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Yeah, I think it is plausible. Maybe unlikely, but I still kind of like the idea. Sounds like a fun plot hook.  |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 02:40:20
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| I like the idea, but then I always like Iyachtu Xvim much better than dear old Popsie anyways... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 02:47:16
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| Thank you Steven . . . always flattered to be on a similar wavelength to someone I respect . . . of course, I'm not sure how this would ever have any meaning to the mortals of the Realms, but from a "deific" standpoint, it struck me as an interesting and probable occurance. Especially after Xvim's church did so much work leading up to Bane's resurrection, which just came out of nowhere. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 03:39:05
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If you like conspiracy theories you should hear the one Steven came up with a while ago re the shadow weave, Leira and Mask ... it's a doozy.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 06:02:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
I like the idea, but then I always like Iyachtu Xvim much better than dear old Popsie anyways...
Same here. I thought Xvim had more style. He certainly had a cooler name!  |
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 08:43:43
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*snicker*.. Oh yeah! The half-demon demigod whose name sounds like a sneeze is soooo much cooler!
Xvim: Tremble in fear puny mortals for I am Iyachtu Xvim!
Adventurer: Bless you. Didn't quite catch the last part, who are you again?
X: Who am I?! I am evil incarnate! I am the new Dread Lord of Tyranny, Iyachtu Xvim!
A: Gazoontite.. I'm sorry, still didn't catch your name..
X: Irreverent creature of weak flesh! I will rip you limb from limb! I am Iyachtu Xvim!!
A: Do you need a tissue or something? I know allergies are bad this time of year, but you need to get that sneeze under control. I can't understand a word you're saying.
X: ... That's it! I quit! Dad can have his crummy job back!
And thus did Bane the Tyrant return to plague Faerun once more... |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 11:08:36
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Some more fuel for the fire:
Bane adopted Xvim's color upon returning, and his new most common appearance isn't a darkly handsome man, but rather a muscular, feral looking being . . . almost an amalgam of the two. If you had just come back, and you were the Lord of Tyranny, would you compromise and start looking a little like the god you just deposed, or would you come back in all of your glory? Especially given you were only gone for less than 20 years. The new unholy symbol falls into this category as well.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 17:23:55
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Some more fuel for the fire:
Bane adopted Xvim's color upon returning, and his new most common appearance isn't a darkly handsome man, but rather a muscular, feral looking being . . . almost an amalgam of the two. If you had just come back, and you were the Lord of Tyranny, would you compromise and start looking a little like the god you just deposed, or would you come back in all of your glory? Especially given you were only gone for less than 20 years. The new unholy symbol falls into this category as well.
You know, that kinda supports my "unintentional resurrection" theory for how Bane came back...
See, I have two theories. Both hinge on the fact that Iyachtu Xvim was Bane's son, and thus had part of his essence.
Theory 1, the deliberate resurrection: Bane planned to come back if anything ever happened to him. Xvim was like a walking incubator for Bane. When Fzoul was busily going around and collecting the bits of essence left behind, once a certain amount had been gathered, it allowed Bane to stage his own resurrection -- it recharged his batteries, so to speak, until he could spring forth from Xvim.
Theory 2, the unintentional resurrection: It's pretty much the same as #1, except that Bane didn't have any special plans for Xvim. When Xvim had absorbed a good portion of his father's essence, that portion, combined with the blood of Bane flowing in his veins, reached critical mass. Bane's essence overwhelmed Xvim. Bane was reborn in a new body, not quite the same as he once was, because he was now a merger of Bane and Xvim. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 19:37:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
I like the idea, but then I always like Iyachtu Xvim much better than dear old Popsie anyways...
Same here. I thought Xvim had more style. He certainly had a cooler name!
Hey, I thought exactly the same thing about the name!! |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2006 : 00:52:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
I like the idea, but then I always like Iyachtu Xvim much better than dear old Popsie anyways...
Same here. I thought Xvim had more style. He certainly had a cooler name!
The name "Xvim" has more zazz than simple ol' "Bane", I agree... but I could never quite get over "Iyachtu". It balances well with Xvim, but I hear too many players and DMs alike putting too much hard emphasis on it and pronouncing it "I yuk too".
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2006 : 04:36:06
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Hmmm... you know, I said above it was plausible but unlikely. But I find myself more and more persuaded.
What if the very act of Bane seeming to burst forth out of Xvim was actually a chrysalis event--with Xvim metamorphosing himself from a "larval stage" into a more powerful, "mature" godly form? It could have been a mythic transformation. A divine "epic" ritual.
Assuming it was intentional, it succeeded for Xvim marvelously. He jumped from a Lesser god to a Greater god in status, hopscotching over a whole godly rung. He went from somewhere between 6-10 divine ranks up to 17 divine rank. That's anywhere from a 7 to 12 DVR gain!
It's not so high a price to give up your name and identity (one which commands little respect and is encumbered with so much failure and other baggage) in exchange for claiming your birthright: the respect and fear your father's name commanded and a power increase greater than what you could ever hope to achieve through centuries of effort under your own name.
In fact, Xvim's transformation was orders of magnitude better than the boost Lolth achieved when she recently jumped from an intermediate deity (she was DVR 15) to a greater deity (now DVR 16--or higher?)
Come to think of it... the two events might be linked...
Consider: On Midwinter Night 1372 Xvim transforms into Bane. Then exactly 6 months later on Midsummer Night (or perhaps Shieldmeet) 1372, Lolth rips her layers free from the Abyss (forming her own plane) and cocoons herself in her Demonweb Pits in preparation from her own metamorphosis into a Greater God...
Were they in league together? Had they both discovered a similar ritual? Or was Lolth simply taking a cue from Xvim? Or did it just take her that long to sleuth out what Xvim had done and follow suit?
And is it by mere chance that they both initiated their transformations on seasonal cross-quarter holy days? Or do the dates of the rituals hold some greater significance?
I find Knight Errant's suggestion strongly persuasive that a reborn Bane would not dilute and confound his own image by coopting his son's looks and "bastardizing" his holy symbol. That show's way too much respect for a being he had just anihilated.
I would, however, expect Xvim to do the converse--appropriating the "brand loyalty" of his father's image and holy symbol in an amalgam with his own.
Yes, I am warming to this idea. I am totally intrigued with it now.
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2006 : 19:14:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
I like the idea, but then I always like Iyachtu Xvim much better than dear old Popsie anyways...
Same here. I thought Xvim had more style. He certainly had a cooler name!
.....oh malefic Lord....He who Makes Us Cleanse our unworthy throats in the utterances of His Unholy Name......  |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Realms Conpirtacy Theories: Bane and Xvim
