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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jan 2006 : 16:58:43
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I find it very hard to play some of the large scare dungeon adventures such as the various undermountain adventures and others. the reason is that it is hard for me to describe the progress through the dungeon to the players without either showing the map to them (which destroys all the element of surprise) or drawing the map for them as they do progress in the dungeon.
Do any of you have a better way of how to handle it. It has kept me from using any of the big dungeons and it bothers me...
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"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2006 : 17:15:24
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| An idea I once had was to use the map, but put some sort of cover over it. I had taken a piece of cardboard and cut out a circle in the center... I never used it (never got to DM), but it's one solution. |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2006 : 17:24:10
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| For me, the maps don't have to be exactly the same. As long as I tell them they can go right, left or both a certain distance and the size of the room I consider that area mapped even if its not exactly the same. I'll make some corrections if there is some confusion and major errors but other than that just let it play as stands too much time is wasted to try to be perfect. And if they know the layout already I'll just give them a copy of the map. |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2006 : 17:44:02
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I generally draw the map for them. Exausting, but works, in the end. |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2006 : 17:50:35
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I give detail based on the exacting nature of the players. For my current group, they have 2 cartogrophers and an Illustrator in the party, they get detail.
For a previous group, I would say things like "The floor slopes gently down for about a stones throw, then levels out into a roughly oval shape room the size of the Dancing Dolphin's main room."
For that party, that description was good enough for them. My current group keeps track of the materials on every surface, whether it is rough, smooth, inlayed, quality of workmanship and the like. Writing all of that into each building and room you design is exhausting. They are possibly the slowest dungeon delvers I have ever GM'd for. They examine every peice of furnature and tapestry for its historic value, take time to make a drawing of every unique piece before moving on. Ugh...
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Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 03:38:07
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back to basics of D&D, describe an area and let a designated person be the mapper. With dungeons like Undermountain, you can't accomplish it in one big grand adventure. divide it up into smaller excursions, this will make it more managable. for instance, the party could stumble across a portal that transports them to the first level, then they find their way out using the yawning portal. this would allow for a taste of what is to come, without trying to run the whole thing. additionally, the characters could try to "purchase" a map that illustrates a portion of a dungeon, whether it is correct or not is a part of the adventure  in the end, make it smaller and more managable, it will help you, as the DM, greatly |
Edited by - scererar on 05 Jan 2006 03:39:02 |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 06:06:26
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Hello-
Another possibility - especially in the case of the players needing exactness - but helpfull in not slowing the game down - Draw each room or corridor ahead of time - and lightly tape them to index cards. As they adventure - you can remove the 'map fragments' and give them to the players - who can tape them onto a full-size piece of paper. You could even put brief notes on the index cards about the room in question - or include player-type info - like the materials of the walls etc - and give the players the index cards too.
Hope that helps some! And Good Luck with Undermountain!
Dhomal |
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Vvornth
Acolyte
Sweden
48 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 07:54:15
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| I remember this issue being my main concern with the Dragon Mountain dungeon. It was difficult portraying the sense of scope all the time, trying to sell it to my PCs that this was a truly massive place. |
It's good to be king |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 13:11:40
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That's an excellent idea Dhomal. Could even be done by printing a second copy of the original map and just cutting it up.
I think I'll persuade our DM to do that, I usually end up drawing the maps, and let me tell you Eschers optical illusions have *nothing* on what my maps look like :D |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 14:06:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
That's an excellent idea Dhomal. Could even be done by printing a second copy of the original map and just cutting it up.
I think I'll persuade our DM to do that, I usually end up drawing the maps, and let me tell you Eschers optical illusions have *nothing* on what my maps look like :D
I was actually going to say that sounded like a good idea myself. You'll get a chance to refine your mapping skills at some point though - when I send you into the Underdark. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 14:52:19
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Hahahah... never mention to the DM that do anything wrong! 
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 15:05:55
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No really I insist, I want a full jigsaw puzzle of the underdark since 'you' had such a great idea of sending us there :P
Shouldn't take more than a few years for you to do it :) |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 15:43:08
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| I realy liked the idea of cutting a copy of the dungeon up and then recreate the map as the players progres. Like a giant piece of a puzzle. THINK IT WILL WORK. Thanks Dhomal. Good thinking. |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 15:57:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
Hello-
Another possibility - especially in the case of the players needing exactness - but helpfull in not slowing the game down - Draw each room or corridor ahead of time - and lightly tape them to index cards. As they adventure - you can remove the 'map fragments' and give them to the players - who can tape them onto a full-size piece of paper. You could even put brief notes on the index cards about the room in question - or include player-type info - like the materials of the walls etc - and give the players the index cards too.
Hope that helps some! And Good Luck with Undermountain!
Dhomal
Did that once and went crazy with the amount of preparation time it ate up. Was worth it though... (it was to correctly organise the assault on the Orc stronghold in a FR version of "Forge of Fury")
Bocklin |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 15:08:08
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| I will give it a go... Need to play some large scale dungeon. Undermountain is haunting my bookshelve and i havent been able to play it. Now i will test the idea on some dungeon of lesser importance and then it is Undermountain. |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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Belthor
Seeker
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2006 : 19:30:13
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| Another suggestion that I've been meaning to give to the dm of our current large scale dungeon is to use postits to cover the map. there are many different sizes to suit the different sizes of rooms, corridors, etc... that way you can reveal only what you want to reveal with no cutting and gluing involved. |
If the rest of humanity were only as smart as my familiar...... |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2006 : 19:57:03
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| Also a good idea... Ill probably try them all. Worth giving it a shot. |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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Vvornth
Acolyte
Sweden
48 Posts |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2006 : 12:42:21
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| That is an ok idea... But my problem was that i didnt want to draw the vast and extensive dungeons containing about 40-50 rooms and special locations. This dont solve that problem. Makes it easier, but doesnt solve it. |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2006 : 15:56:55
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Describe the dungeioin and have the players draw the map. You only have to draw the original so that you don't have any overlapping rooms.
If you use miniatures all you have to draw is the individual rooms that there is combat. |
Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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Large scale dungeons
