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Just
Acolyte
Portugal
32 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 20:49:56
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My friends my interest on a particular event of the Forgotten Realms roused in me and I think it will rise in you too and I would like to ask some questions to anyone that is willing to answer...
The Imaskar Artificers. And the Mulan people, they seem like a very interesting people.
The Imaskar were by all accounts the first spellcasters in faerun(Weren't they???).
But how did they come by their magic. They were not taught by the Elves, like the Netherians and it make's no mention of them ever having found an artifact or deity that would leed them to such a discovery. So it is my belief that they must of have been taught by some outside entity like a Demon, a Devil, some Alien creature? I would very much like to hear your theories, or oficial Theory on this if there is one?
My theory and you might find it amusing is that it was the mysterious Sharn that taught the Imaskari the ways of their planar magic. If this is so it would certainly be amusing, since the Imaskari later are known to have created the first Phaerimm, the Enemies of the Sharn(Or so it is discussed in another thread about the Phaerimm?).
I'm saying this theory because, the Artificers magic(and the fact they are called Artificers and not mage's or Wizards or one of the other more common names!!?) seems like a rather alien one or are they simply called Artificers because they created many artifacts???
Later in time the Imaskari came against a great plague that killed most of their population, this plague almost certainly carried by one of the planewalkers or by some foreign entity bound on the destruction of this people(most certainly one of this reasons, which as also already been discussed in one of the threads here!) led the Artificers to open portals to another realmsphere and bring over thousands of people to repopulate their land. This people became known as the Mulan. They erected great planar barriers to prevent further connection with the sphere where they got the Mulan slaves(???). Later they were known to create an artifact called the Imaskarcana, constituted of several pieces where they stored they“re collective knowledge. I raise another question. With the coming of the Avatars or later to be known as Godkings. The Imaskari last redute forced them to the underground below the now created Raurin Desert or Purple Sea of Sand Desert and it is said that the last survivors of the Imaskari live in the Earthroot where they only old one of all the pieces of the Imaskarcana. Is it possible that all the other pieces are already in the possession of other beings on Abeir-Toril, or were they permanently lost! Would it be possible for outside entities to recover some of those pieces. If they are in the possession of someone, with whom are they what are your theories? Also one second question would be what raised the interest of the Godkings in a plane such as Faerun. And if the Imaskari were already very ancient by faeruns terms how come they had no divinities of their own or artificers powerfull enough to battle the strength of an Avatar?
I leave these questions to your appraisal. Hope I raise some interest in this matter? I would appreciate any comments you might have on these matters?
To end one last question! These Imaskari artificers magic being of a different type, as it been portrayed in any source or novel book the workings of such magic?
Thanks for any attention? Just the Qindahearted
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Brainstorming Paladin under the shadow of a rock shaped Abyss General |
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silvermage
Seeker
77 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2006 : 02:12:40
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quote:
But how did they come by their magic. They were not taught by the Elves, like the Netherians and it make's no mention of them ever having found an artifact or deity that would leed them to such a discovery. So it is my belief that they must of have been taught by some outside entity like a Demon, a Devil, some Alien creature? I would very much like to hear your theories, or oficial Theory on this if there is one?
Who knows some of them were secretly taught by one of the gods such as Mystryl-goddess of magic back then, it is to my idea that she wishes to spread the knowledge of magic across Faerun so perhaps she may had taught a few worthies of the Imaskar so they can go on to spread the teachings of magic.
quote:
that it was the mysterious Sharn that taught the Imaskari the ways of their planar magic. If this is so it would certainly be amusing, since the Imaskari later are known to have created the first Phaerimm, the Enemies of the Sharn(Or so it is discussed in another thread about the Phaerimm?).
There are many theories and hypotheses about the Sharn and where they came from, some believe they were Netherese who transformed themselves to better fight the phaerimm or were drow who transformed themselves into Sharn then fled to material plane to seek a new home in the Planes. Sharn are very reclusive and isolated, rarely appearing to talk with non-Sharn unless they deem it necessary ot important to their agenda. If the Sharn were the first to teach the Imaskari, and if the Imaskari were the ones to truly create the Phaerimm, I think there would be a fight between the Sharn and Phaerimm over magic superiority differences and if the Sharn really truimphed over the first Phaerimms, then there might be another Sharn Wall beneath the Purple Desert Sands besides the current Sharn Wall beneath Anauroch. But so far, we only know the Sharn appeared to fight the Phaerimm during the Ending Days of Netheril-some say the Sharn were summoned to fight the Phaerimm or were Netherese Archwizards who transformed themselves to fight their foes. But if Just's Theory that the Sharn were the ones to teach the Imaskari and if the Imaskari were the ones who created the Phaerimm, why would the Sharn wait so long until the Ending of Netheril to appear to fight the phaerimm?
quote:
I'm saying this theory because, the Artificers magic(and the fact they are called Artificers and not mage's or Wizards or one of the other more common names!!?) seems like a rather alien one or are they simply called Artificers because they created many artifacts???
generally, I prefer to think that Artificers are mages who can imbue things with magical powers.
quote:
Is it possible that all the other pieces are already in the possession of other beings on Abeir-Toril, or were they permanently lost! Would it be possible for outside entities to recover some of those pieces. If they are in the possession of someone, with whom are they what are your theories?
The Imaskarcana items may most likely remain buried under the weight of old Imaskar ruins or under the desert sands, so far I don't think anybody had acquired one item even. If they are in the possession of someone? Hard to tell, if there is anyone to go find such items would be the Zulkirs of Thay and the Mulhorandi wizards afterall, they are quite close to the region where the Imaskari Empire once stood.
quote:
Also one second question would be what raised the interest of the Godkings in a plane such as Faerun. And if the Imaskari were already very ancient by faeruns terms how come they had no divinities of their own or artificers powerfull enough to battle the strength of an Avatar?
Hmm....Imaskari for all their power are not like Karse to really can slay a god and be a god overnight, I don't think they got the calibre and drive similar to Karsus. Battle an avatar? I think they did battle the avatars but maybe the Imaskari were worn down by the continuous fighting against the Avatars and surely some avatars would had fallen in the fighting. |
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Just
Acolyte
Portugal
32 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 00:46:12
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Silvermage Thanks for your input, I appreciatted it very much!
It is my believe that there is very few lore about this time passage, which for one side it's bad because I lke the lore created by the TSR and Wizards designer's. But on the other side it is good, since it give's me leverage to create by myself. I think the Alienist prestige class might befit an Imaskari Archmage perfectly, among a few other more strange prestige classes. Let's not forget the vengefull purposes of the Mulhorandi Arcanamachs who give no peace to the few remaining Imaskari living in the earthroot. These are probably the only humans which much like the Drow were forced to live in the underground, so they might have acquired some attributtes that adapted them to their dark underground dwelling! When it come's to their magic I don't really know very much what to make of it. I would like to make it a different, unique and strange type of magic. I some time ago created a feat called Fetish spellcasting for Sorcerers. Which allowed a Sorcerer to trade all ingredients necessary in the casting of a spell by a fetish that allows the Sorcerer to cast several spells of the same school, or type with one single "fetish"(much like a holy Symbol!) created by the Sorcerer, but I would like to make their magic even stranger! I still have to think how! Could you give me some pointers? I would appreciatte it.
Just the Qindahearted |
Brainstorming Paladin under the shadow of a rock shaped Abyss General |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2006 : 04:07:51
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| the novel by Richard baker, the shadow stone, has some lore on the Imaskari and their origins. It has been a while since I have read it though. |
Edited by - scererar on 04 Jan 2006 04:08:20 |
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Just
Acolyte
Portugal
32 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 22:26:54
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Thanks Scererar!
There is some info to be Found in the Book Lost Empires of Faerun! I just have to find the Time to read it!
Just the Qindahearted |
Brainstorming Paladin under the shadow of a rock shaped Abyss General |
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Zeboaster of Ordulin
Acolyte
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2006 : 16:26:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Just
The Imaskar Artificers. And the Mulan people, they seem like a very interesting people.
The Imaskar were by all accounts the first spellcasters in faerun(Weren't they???).
But how did they come by their magic. They were not taught by the Elves, like the Netherians and it make's no mention of them ever having found an artifact or deity that would leed them to such a discovery. So it is my belief that they must of have been taught by some outside entity like a Demon, a Devil, some Alien creature? I would very much like to hear your theories, or oficial Theory on this if there is one?
I'm saying this theory because, the Artificers magic(and the fact they are called Artificers and not mage's or Wizards or one of the other more common names!!?) seems like a rather alien one or are they simply called Artificers because they created many artifacts???
Later in time the Imaskari came against a great plague that killed most of their population, this plague almost certainly carried by one of the planewalkers or by some foreign entity bound on the destruction of this people(most certainly one of this reasons, which as also already been discussed in one of the threads here!) led the Artificers to open portals to another realmsphere and bring over thousands of people to repopulate their land. This people became known as the Mulan. They erected great planar barriers to prevent further connection with the sphere where they got the Mulan slaves(???). Later they were known to create an artifact called the Imaskarcana, constituted of several pieces where they stored they“re collective knowledge. I raise another question. With the coming of the Avatars or later to be known as Godkings. The Imaskari last redute forced them to the underground below the now created Raurin Desert or Purple Sea of Sand Desert and it is said that the last survivors of the Imaskari live in the Earthroot where they only old one of all the pieces of the Imaskarcana. Is it possible that all the other pieces are already in the possession of other beings on Abeir-Toril, or were they permanently lost! Would it be possible for outside entities to recover some of those pieces. If they are in the possession of someone, with whom are they what are your theories? Also one second question would be what raised the interest of the Godkings in a plane such as Faerun. And if the Imaskari were already very ancient by faeruns terms how come they had no divinities of their own or artificers powerfull enough to battle the strength of an Avatar?
I leave these questions to your appraisal. Hope I raise some interest in this matter? I would appreciate any comments you might have on these matters?
To end one last question! These Imaskari artificers magic being of a different type, as it been portrayed in any source or novel book the workings of such magic?
IMC, the Imaskari origins are those of planeswalkers who landed on an unoccupied part of Faerun and took over an area for themselves. It makes more sense to me to have a 'mature' society by atheistic rather than a young (presumably superstitious) society that doesn't worship any gods. It does push back questions of how they learned magic, or how they cast spells, but at this late date, I'm partial to some of the methods in the Tome of Magic, or Magic of Incarnum at this time. My in-game stuff regarding that era has been involved with the conflict between the Imaskari and the Mulan, rather than the origins of the Imaskari. Pretty much everything else is canon from the books, otherwise. |
Zeboaster, a distinguised character known for his sarcasm and perfumed beard, is currently in hiding after making one too many witty and/or truthful remarks.
FRA p96 |
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Hammerfist
Acolyte
10 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2006 : 02:57:17
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| Planewalkers who founded the Imaskari Empire? That's a very interesting thought but had it been confirmed that Planewalkers founded the Imaskari? |
The hammer will strike when I say so. |
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Zeboaster of Ordulin
Acolyte
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2006 : 05:33:13
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Hammerfist:
Probably, as it's not that it's an original idea, but that it makes the most sense in my game. |
Zeboaster, a distinguised character known for his sarcasm and perfumed beard, is currently in hiding after making one too many witty and/or truthful remarks.
FRA p96 |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2006 : 09:02:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Just
The Imaskar were by all accounts the first spellcasters in faerun(Weren't they???).
No - I think the Creator Races were the first spellcasters in Faerūn.
quote:
If this is so it would certainly be amusing, since the Imaskari later are known to have created the first Phaerimm, the Enemies of the Sharn(Or so it is discussed in another thread about the Phaerimm?).
Many sages and loremasters here at Candlekeep have speculated that there are, in fact, several "batches" of Phaerimm. The Imaskari could not have created "the first ones" since the Phaerimm have been mentioned in previous Realmslore to have existed in -30000 DR (or something like that). |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2006 : 22:22:53
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The Imaskari don't predate elven magic, and their empire bordered on that of the star elves (at least later, I wouldn't presume that the star elves taught them magic). Imaskari ruins inevitably contain masterpieces of architecture of one sort or another, and they are often filled with deadly traps. Very few Imaskari magic items have survived to modern day, but the few that do are highly powerful. These magic items are invariably booby trapped in sadistic ways as well. You can find some decent info about them in the horde boxed set, and I think there was some in the module blood charge.
Speaking entirely theoretically though, I'd put the Imaskari as a race of humans who delved into some very weird magics. Alienists, pact magic users, various types of necromancers, mages who worked on binding magics, elementalists, and even construct makers... these all would seem to fit them. They may have been magical immigrants, but I just wonder if they weren't one of the first races to discover the myriad planes from Toril.
Some might say that their magic items produce X wizardly spell, so they were wizards. To this, I would say "no, we are simply re-interpreting the effect into a game mechanic that will work for said effect". For instance, many psionic effects could be directly reproduced as a wizard's spell. I wonder if their style of magic died off with the practictioners who fought the avatars, and those that followed had to rediscover magic to a degree.
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2006 : 22:53:15
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quote:
The Imaskari could not have created "the first ones" since the Phaerimm have been mentioned in previous Realmslore to have existed in -30000 DR (or something like that).
Just out of curiousity, do you remember where this reference comes from?.. Never saw that one before (but then again I'd never be one to say that I've read every piece of Realmslore out there).. |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2006 : 16:04:16
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| El Magnifico Uno, read the chapter on Isstosseffifil in Serpent Kingdoms p.95-98. The sarrukh had a war with the phaerimm circa -33,800 DR. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Gladi
Acolyte
Czech Republic
24 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 21:58:23
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Bright day
Wasn't there some rumour of one Imaskarcana in Solon? |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 11:57:18
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| Isn't it currently suspected (or confirmed by Ed), that Halaster is a survivor (or just a few generations down) from the original Imaskari? I mean he does practice some strange magic. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, he will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who celebrate after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, Id be wondering: Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE youre adventurers? -Ed Greenwood
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Edited by - Mazrim_Taim on 04 Jul 2006 11:57:53 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 15:32:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Mazrim_Taim
Isn't it currently suspected (or confirmed by Ed), that Halaster is a survivor (or just a few generations down) from the original Imaskari? I mean he does practice some strange magic.
Yes, it's been hinted that this is the case. Stardock and Steven, on the mailing list and other places, have hinted at this as well but they won't come right out and say it. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 16:42:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Just
So it is my belief that they must of have been taught by some outside entity like a Demon, a Devil, some Alien creature? I would very much like to hear your theories, or oficial Theory on this if there is one?
If we extrapolate from what we know about them, and some of the material in Rich Baker's 'The Shadow Stone', I have some notions.(Admittedly 'The Shadow Stone' was originally intended to be a Birthright novel, but was reworked into the Realms).
Let's see. Mortals heavily interested in the planes, mortals who display what can best be described as total disdain for deities, mortals who use pretty potent magic including magic that bars entire pantheons from directly taking action against them, and in 'The Shadow Stone' a rather interesting preponderance of summoned yugoloths.
There's one potential answer there. An early sorcerer of Imaskar might have been heavily influenced by one of the sages of the Tower Arcane in Gehenna, or even one of the lords of Khin-Oin. The 'loth influence might have even come from a renegade member of their heirarchy, or heck even a wandering Baernaloth who saw it fit in a moment of whimsy to manipulate a mortal culture to give a slap to the face of several pantheons of so-called gods.
If you're familiar with any of my work (especially some of the Baernaloth cycle stories on Planewalker), I'd peg it as something out of the portfolio of the Proselytizer, the Book Binder, the Chronicler, or maybe even Lazarius Ibn Shartalan 'The Architect'. Indirect action to cultivate evil and spread directed misery against the divine.
I'm not suggesting that we necessarily should assume fiendish influence as being the driving force behind Imaskar, but it's an interesting notion. I'm also partial to the idea that they're descended from a group of exiled members of the Incanterium following their expulsion from Sigil and the collapse of their faction. Honestly I'd probably go with a mix of like-minded influences both from Toril and extra-Torillian as well. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 00:49:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Mazrim_Taim
Isn't it currently suspected (or confirmed by Ed), that Halaster is a survivor (or just a few generations down) from the original Imaskari? I mean he does practice some strange magic.
Yes, it's been hinted that this is the case. Stardock and Steven, on the mailing list and other places, have hinted at this as well but they won't come right out and say it. :)
Pretty much confirmed now, as of 'Dragons of Faerūn'. Hilather (Halaster) in the write-up of Kuraltaar the Demonshield is noted as being Raurinese.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 10:57:11
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Mazrim_Taim
Isn't it currently suspected (or confirmed by Ed), that Halaster is a survivor (or just a few generations down) from the original Imaskari? I mean he does practice some strange magic.
Yes, it's been hinted that this is the case. Stardock and Steven, on the mailing list and other places, have hinted at this as well but they won't come right out and say it. :)
Pretty much confirmed now, as of 'Dragons of Faerūn'. Hilather (Halaster) in the write-up of Kuraltaar the Demonshield is noted as being Raurinese.
-- George Krashos
Ah. Groovy. I haven't gotten to that book yet. I know, I need to. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2006 : 20:46:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
quote:
Originally posted by Just
So it is my belief that they must of have been taught by some outside entity like a Demon, a Devil, some Alien creature? I would very much like to hear your theories, or oficial Theory on this if there is one?
(snip)
If you're familiar with any of my work (especially some of the Baernaloth cycle stories on Planewalker), I'd peg it as something out of the portfolio of the Proselytizer, the Book Binder, the Chronicler, or maybe even Lazarius Ibn Shartalan 'The Architect'. Indirect action to cultivate evil and spread directed misery against the divine.
(snip)
Shemmy! Well met! Since I no longer have the luxury of spending 18 hours a day online, would you please post a link for us to your stories on Planewalker.com?
I have my own ideas on the origins of the Imaskari, but I cannot publish them yet because my players haven't yet triggered the conditions which will reveal the background to them. |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2006 : 07:46:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Shemmy! Well met! Since I no longer have the luxury of spending 18 hours a day online, would you please post a link for us to your stories on Planewalker.com?
Here are the stories (so far complete) in the Baernaloth cycle, and two pieces I wrote about some other fiends, but this isn't a comprehensive list. Planewalker has most of my stuff if you do a search in the Chronicles section under my typical pen-name.
Tellura Ibn Shartalan, the Dire Shepherd (1 of 13)
Severeth Na'Halastrian, The Wanderer (2 of 13)
Tarsikus Ibn Meth'kultesh, The Book Binder (3 of 13)
Jezifreth Na'Harsindrian, The Inquisitor (4 of 13)
Daru Ib Shamiq, The Lie Weaver (5 of 13)
Methikus sar Telmuril, The Flesh Sculptor (6 of 13)
Koristal Il Palinthiin, The Proselytizer (7 of 13)
Harishek Ap Thul'kesh (8 of 13)
Sarkithel fek Parthis, The Chronicler (9 of 13)
The Heart of Perdition
And there's its prequel story of sorts, 'The Dreamer and the Fiend', which is in issue #5 of Knowledge Arcana over on WotC's page.
*hands out larvae to everyone and flashes a smiling mouthful of fangs for going offtopic a bit*
Edit: man I wish the forum code here was the same was WotC, Enworld, or Planewalker. I take it there's no way to hide full links behind a phrase or something shorter and less cumbersome than the whole address?
Mod Edit: The links have been fixed.
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Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Edited by - The Sage on 16 Dec 2006 09:12:00 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2006 : 09:04:35
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I really didn't think you guys over at planewalker.com did things any differently to us here at Candlekeep, Shem. 
We use:- [*URL="addresshere"]linkwordhere[/URL*] -- just remove the two asterisk. Which is pretty much the same at WotC.
Anyways... I'll clean up the links for you.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 16 Dec 2006 09:09:47 |
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About the Imaskari
