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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Dec 2005 : 06:09:32
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I have a cleric of Helm in my group that I DM, and he really wanted to take the Initiate of Helm feat, in part to show that he went back to his temple for further training, and in part to show that he was "earning ranks" in the faith with such training. While he loves Mace of Odo, for the most part, the feat is more of a plot throw away.
So I decided to try and convert the Helm spells from Faiths and Avatars to 3.5 stats. I am going to post them here. If any of you have any suggestions or the like, I would gladly hear them before I present this to my Helmite PC.
Thanks for any input.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2005 : 06:12:19
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Sentry of Helm
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Initiate of Helm 1
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Close (25ft. + 5ft./2 levels)
Area: 120 foot diameter sphere
Duration: 8 hours or until triggered
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell creates an invisible force similar to the effect of an unseen servant spell, though it will not interact with its environment except as mentioned below.
When casting this spell, the caster walks the perimeter of the area to be watched, up to the limits of the area of effect, while chanting and sprinkling sand, forming the circle that will create the outer edge of the watched area. Upon finishing the casting, the caster returns to the center of the area of effect and immediately falls asleep, and the unseen watcher comes into being, watching over the detailed area.
The sentry has the same ability to spot anything entering the warded area as the caster would normally have, and if anything larger than one foot in length, width, or height is detected entering the area, the unseen force wakes the caster. It also wakes the caster if the entire 8 hours of the spell duration expires without any detection of intrusion. While the unseen force has the normal ability to spot as the caster does, it does not gain any special form of vision (i.e. darkvision, low light vision) or any bonuses that the caster may gain from familiars, though they do gain any bonuses to spot checks gained due to items worn by the sleeping caster, so long as he wears such items while casting the spell.
A caster that has an effective caster level of 5 or higher can conjure a sentry that has darkvision, functioning to the edge of the area of effect of the spell.
To cast this spell, the caster must have a divine focus (holy symbol) and a bag of sand. The sand is the material component and is consumed in the casting. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2005 : 07:45:46
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| Having some trouble with Exaltation . . . the idea that characters not of the Helmite faith have to fail a save to receive this blessing is one issue. I have thought of making it a fortitude save, but it just doesn't feel the same in 3.5 to have someone save versus this when it could benefit them. But I don't want to assign a random roll to see if it works for non-faithful, as that tends to make the spell seem random, and thus not something Helm would grant. Ideas, as always, are welcome. |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2005 : 15:48:02
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Having some trouble with Exaltation . . . the idea that characters not of the Helmite faith have to fail a save to receive this blessing is one issue. I have thought of making it a fortitude save, but it just doesn't feel the same in 3.5 to have someone save versus this when it could benefit them. But I don't want to assign a random roll to see if it works for non-faithful, as that tends to make the spell seem random, and thus not something Helm would grant. Ideas, as always, are welcome.
I am unfamiliar with the spell because I don't have the book but I think I understand what you're saying about targeting a non-Helmite.
Maybe you can make the caster make a Spellcraft check in order to cast it on a non-Helmite. Set one DC for targeting characters that worship allies of Helm and a higher DC for targeting characters that worship enemies of Helm (Bane, Cyric, Malar, Talos from PGtF)
Since their is no listing of Allies you could set the DC at one number for the Enemies and something lower for everyone else.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2005 : 15:59:01
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| That's a great idea CoB, and more what I was looking for. Still a chance for failure, but more contingent upon the skills of the the caster, not having the recipient failing a save. I'll count worshippers of the Triad as allies, since they share the same plane, then make another DC for other worshippers, and REALLY difficult one for the actual opposed deities. Thanks CoB! |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2005 : 16:18:08
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Hey, you know us Dreadmasters, always trying to help.  |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 07:24:50
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Exaltation
Abjuration
Level: Initiate of Helm 6
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Area: Creature touched
Duration: 1 round/caster level
Saving Throw: Yes (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell allows the follower of Helm to shield, aid, and protect one other being. The follower of Helm cannot use this spell on himself. By touch the caster removes fear, sleep, feeblemind, and the negative effects of hunger, nausia, pain, intoxication, or insanity, and is protected from such effects until the end of the spell. Any effect that existed before the spell was cast comes back into being at the end of the spell, but any effect that comes into play during the spell is dispelled, and does not affect the recipient even after the spell expires. For example, a character that is under the effect of a feeblemind before the spell is cast will be under its effect again after the spell expires, but someone that is protected from a feeeblemind cast on them after they were protected by this spell never suffer the effects of that particular casting of the spell.
The follower of Helm can cast this on another follower of Helm with no special qualifiers to the ability. Upon casting it on a creature of the same alignment as the caster, but upon a creature that is not a follower of Helm, the caster must make a spellcraft check with a DC of 15 to successfully cast this spell, and if this roll is missed, the spell is wasted. If the caster uses this spell on a recipient that is neither a worshiper of Helm nor the same alignment as the caster, the DC of the spellcraft check is 20.
If the caster is a different alignment as the recipient, but the recipient worships Helm, the recipient receives a +1 morale bonus to all Will saves for the duration of the spell. If the recipient is a worshiper of Helm and is the same alignment as the caster, they gain a +2 morale bonus to Will saves for the duration of the spell.
A recipient that is the same alignment and follows Helm can be, at the caster's discretion, be sheathed in a white glow for the duration of the spell.
The components for this spell are a vial of holy water, a sapphire or diamond worth 1000 gp, and the divine focus of the caster, generally the holy symbol of Helm. |
Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 01 Jan 2006 16:07:07 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 07:31:36
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Okay, anyone looking at this will likely note that the spell in Faiths and Avatars was a 3rd level spell, and generally, 3rd level spells, even over powered ones, usually didn't jump much higher than 5th level when converted to the 9 level clerical spell spread in 3/3.5 edition. But considering that this spell removes a fifth level spell effect without a caster level check, and wards against it until the duration is up, I though the bump up was warrented, even though the spell can only be cast on the non-faithful with some degree of difficulty. Also, as worded, warding against pain effects also allows for the subject to be safe from Symbols of Pain, so I felt justified.
Anyone have any thoughts on this particular conversion?
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 08:04:12
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Summon Spectator
Conjuration (calling)
Level: Initiate of Helm 6
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Close (25 ft.+5ft./2 levels)
Effect: One summoned creature (Spectator)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: None
There is a legend in the church of Helm that the Vigilant One was seeking to create the perfect guardian, loyal and ever alert, and that the result of at least some of his experimentaion was the spectator. According to this legend, the church of Bane grew so jealous of the spectators created by Helm that they abducted a number of them and subjected them to horrid tortures and vile magics until they became the progenitors of the beholder species. Helmites hate beholders and evil beholder kin and will go out of their way to kill them, and Banites do the same to spectators. This dispite the fact that many sages have pointed out that beholder references predate the church of Bane in many histories, and that spectators are likely naturally occuring variations to the species that are prone to be less malicious and more loyal than their kin.
Upon casting this spell, a spectator, one specificaly allied to Helm, appears in the spot designated by the caster. If the caster is a member in good standing with the church of Helm, and if the caster denotes a proper item to be guarded, the Spectator will agree to guard the given object for 101 years. A valid object for the creature to guard would include a holy relic, enclosed holy space (an altar, special room), or an item of specific significance to the caster, and one that furthers the goals of Helm. Such an object cannot be sentient or living. Note that the same temple might have a spectator summoned to guard its altar, and another one summoned to guard its treasure room, but the two will not aid one another in their tasks. The spectator will stay for 101 years, until slain, or until all of its eyes have been blinded. If all of its eyes are blinded, it will plane shift to Helm's realm within the House of the Triad, and 24 hours later, all of its eyes will be intact and it will plane shift back to resume its duty.
The spectator will guard a given charge from anyone not of Helm's faith, and is often given a specific code or phrase that an authorized follower of the Vigilant One should know in order to access the guarded area. The spectator will then question the individual about the special knowlage telepathically in order to guage the validity of the professed Helmites' claim.
The material components of this spell are the divine focus of the caster and a specially prepared steel gauntlet consecrated to Helm, which is consumed in the casting (this gauntlet should be a masterwork item, though it need only be a gauntlet, not a full suit of armor).
A caster that has access to this spell can also use Monster Summoning VI to summon a spectator in leiu of the monsters on that list.
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Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 01 Jan 2006 16:12:05 |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 08:41:08
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Summon Spectator
Conjuration (summoning)
Level: Initiate of Helm 6
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Close (25 ft.+5ft./2 levels)
Effect: One summoned creature (Spectator)
Duration: See below
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: None
There is a legend in the church of Helm that the Vigilant One was seeking to create the perfect guardian, loyal and ever alert, and that the result of at least some of his experimentaion was the spectator. According to this legend, the church of Bane grew so jealous of the spectators created by Helm that they abducted a number of them and subjected them to horrid tortures and vile magics until they became the progenitors of the beholder species. Helmites hate beholders and evil beholder kin and will go out of their way to kill them, and Banites do the same to spectators. This dispite the fact that many sages have pointed out that beholder references predate the church of Bane in many histories, and that spectators are likely naturally occuring variations to the species that are prone to be less malicious and more loyal than their kin.
Upon casting this spell, the caster summons the actual, physical body of the spectator to his presense, and denotes a specific item for the spectator to guard for the next 101 years. The item must be a non-living item, and more than one spectator cannot be summoned to guard the same item. A spectator may be summoned to guard a specific treasure, shrine, holy relic, or portal. Note that the same temple might have a spectator summoned to guard its altar, and another one summoned to guard its treasure room, but the two will not aid one another in their tasks. The spectator will stay for 101 years, until slain, or until all of its eyes have been blinded. If all of its eyes are blinded, it will plane shift to Helm's realm within the House of the Triad, and 24 hours later, all of its eyes will be intact and it will plane shift back to resume its duty.
The spectator will guard a given charge from anyone not of Helm's faith, and is often given a specific code or phrase that an authorized follower of the Vigilant One should know in order to access the guarded area. The spectator will then question the individual about the special knowlage telepathically in order to guage the validity of the professed Helmites' claim.
The material components of this spell are the divine focus of the caster and a specially prepared steel gauntlet consecrated to Helm, which is consumed in the casting (this gauntlet should be a masterwork item, though it need only be a gauntlet, not a full suit of armor).
A caster that has access to this spell can also use Monster Summoning VI to summon a spectator in leiu of the monsters on that list.
You're breaking a lot of the Conjuration rules in half with this spell-see page 172 of the PHB. If you really want to keep this as written(and as needlessly complex as that is), you'll need to write it up as an incantation, likely(see Unearthed Arcana). |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 15:33:03
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I realize the main thing that I shifted around from 2nd edition was the level. I appreciate the input, so if you don't mind, could you be more specific about what I broke with this. As I said, I mainly just altered a few things to fit the format of 3.5, rather than going deeply into "conjuration" theory here. I would appreciate it. As far as that goes, any major holes in the first two spells?
I made a few minor alterations to this one after reviewing the general information in the Player's Handbook on Conjuration school spells. I would obviously still appreciate any comments forthcoming.
I would write it up as an incantation that is taught to those that learn the Initiate of Helm feat, and I don't think its a bad idea to come up with incantations that various sects and groups in the Realms might teach its members, but in this case, I was trying to keep it a spell due to its original write up.
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Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 01 Jan 2006 16:15:37 |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 20:41:54
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I realize the main thing that I shifted around from 2nd edition was the level. I appreciate the input, so if you don't mind, could you be more specific about what I broke with this. As I said, I mainly just altered a few things to fit the format of 3.5, rather than going deeply into "conjuration" theory here. I would appreciate it. As far as that goes, any major holes in the first two spells?
I made a few minor alterations to this one after reviewing the general information in the Player's Handbook on Conjuration school spells. I would obviously still appreciate any comments forthcoming.
I would write it up as an incantation that is taught to those that learn the Initiate of Helm feat, and I don't think its a bad idea to come up with incantations that various sects and groups in the Realms might teach its members, but in this case, I was trying to keep it a spell due to its original write up.
You've fixed most of them all now.  |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2006 : 00:00:48
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| Thanks for the input Arivia. |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 13:49:19
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Hi KEJr,
This is great that you'd be doing this. Especially that I now play a cleric of Helm in a campaign and was feeling a bit sorry for myself after CoV came out (not too many Helmite goodies in there). So I appreciate this work you're doing even more!
I have some remarks and suggestions regarding the first spell you converted.
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Sentry of Helm
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Initiate of Helm 1
(...)
While the unseen force has the normal ability to spot as the caster does, it does not gain any special form of vision (i.e. darkvision, low light vision) or any bonuses that the caster may gain from familiars, though they do gain any bonuses to spot checks gained due to items worn by the sleeping caster, so long as he wears such items while casting the spell.
A caster that has an effective caster level of 5 or higher can conjure a sentry that has darkvision, functioning to the edge of the area of effect of the spell.
It seems a bit (needlessly) complex to me (i.e. I understand the intend, but I like spells and rules that are "economical"), maybe it is just how it was in 2nd edition?
Why not rather say that "the sentinel has Spot and Listen checks equal to half the cleric's caster level plus his Wisdom modifier (max. +15)".
This makes it slightly more powerful at higher levels, but it means that the spell retains his interest throughout the Cleric's career (which is fair for an Initiate spell), while you avoid situations where the Cleric does a whole ritual of putting some enhancing magical items before the casting so it becomes more powerful (this feels a bit wrong to me).
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
To cast this spell, the caster must have a divine focus (holy symbol) and a bag of sand. The sand is the material component and is consumed in the casting.
To respect the 3.5 format, I suggest to delete this sentence and replace it with
"Material component: a bag of sand."
The divine focus is already indicated in the "Components" line
Bocklin |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 14:09:33
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| Thanks for the input, and my player's cleric felt a bit put out by the lack of Helmite goodness in CoV as well. Yeah, I got carried away with the material components line. The most I have done with my own spells and converting others in 3.5 is with primarily arcane spells, so it was needlessly wordy. Also, it may seem more complicated than needs be since I was trying to preserve as much of the original text as I could, but I was thinking of finding a low level spell that emulates a skill and using that as a model to streamline it. Thanks. |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 15:18:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Bocklin
Why not rather say that "the sentinel has Spot and Listen checks equal to half the cleric's caster level plus his Wisdom modifier (max. +15)".
Re-reading my own sentence, I am thinking that it might be better to make it:
The sentinel has Spot and Listen checks equal to 1 + half the cleric's caster level (max. 10) plus his Wisdom modifier.
That way it means that he has a caster level-dependent "virtual skill ranks" progression that is roughly equal to what he would get from a cross-class skill. And since the Wis modifier comes on top (i.e. is not capped), wiser clerics have an edge over their less wise peers.
What do you think?
Bocklin |
Edited by - Bocklin on 03 Jan 2006 15:19:55 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 15:25:05
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| Yeah, I think it fits Helm's way of thinking that a wiser cleric (i.e. more likely to be vigilant), would have a better chance at detecting something. Something interesting to note is that the sentry is never noted as being able to hear anything. I am thinking this is intentional, and means that invisible foes could pose a problem to a Helmite overly dependant on this spell, but I'll have to reread the original to see if I am overthinking this or if it was just that the 2nd edition mechanic didn't really need to mention a listen check. |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 15:51:06
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Yeah, I think it fits Helm's way of thinking that a wiser cleric (i.e. more likely to be vigilant), would have a better chance at detecting something. Something interesting to note is that the sentry is never noted as being able to hear anything. I am thinking this is intentional, and means that invisible foes could pose a problem to a Helmite overly dependant on this spell, but I'll have to reread the original to see if I am overthinking this or if it was just that the 2nd edition mechanic didn't really need to mention a listen check.
Was also thinking that it is kind of weak compared to "Alarm" (Sor/Wiz 1) which *automatically* detects intrusions... It is much less flavoury, but we could also simply giver a Cleric access to the Alarm spell...
Bocklin |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 16:05:35
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| Bah . . . such will not do for servants of Helm, lol. Of course, we could just simplify it and say that it automatically sees anything that enters the region without a check at all, so the invisibility is still an issue, but anything else automatically gets spotted. In fact, in light of this limitation, we could assume that it would see anything, and ignore the darkvision thing, and at the level that it would normally get darkvision, it would instead start to detect invisible. This retain the flavor of the spell (that you conjure up an invisible watchmen). What do you think of that one? |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 16:52:49
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Bah . . . such will not do for servants of Helm, lol. Of course, we could just simplify it and say that it automatically sees anything that enters the region without a check at all, so the invisibility is still an issue, but anything else automatically gets spotted. In fact, in light of this limitation, we could assume that it would see anything, and ignore the darkvision thing, and at the level that it would normally get darkvision, it would instead start to detect invisible. This retain the flavor of the spell (that you conjure up an invisible watchmen). What do you think of that one?
 Sounds good to me.
The duration, range and use of the spell is also different from Alarm, so it retains a "raison d'etre", while being similar in power.
Bocklin |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 16:53:52
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On another note: who is Odo?
I just know his name from the mace spell. Is there any Realms lore where he figures?
Bocklin |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 16:54:50
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| I'll post some changes later, once I finish up the adventure I have to run tonight (trust me, I check in once in a while to relevie writers block . . . and because I can concentrate on one thing at a time to save my life). |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 17:12:48
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| Now that is a good question . . . Odo . . . hm . . . |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 17:41:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Bocklin
On another note: who is Odo?
I just know his name from the mace spell. Is there any Realms lore where he figures?
Bocklin
I don't know of any such lore... The name isn't in Kuje's file of NPCs, and I don't recognize it from any Realms material... It's likely that the spell is Odo's only noteworthy accomplishment. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 17:45:26
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| Poor Odo . . . I hope he wasn't secretly a Maulaugrym or something like that, especially if he was an amneisiac . . . wait . . . focus . . . |
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Helm Spells in Faiths & Avatars (Initiate Feat)
