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Milith holder of HB8
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Dec 2005 : 04:22:00
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I read the first two books based on the BG games. ANd I must say I was very unhappy with what I saw. Is it just me or can someone tell me why this book just seemed to burn my eyes.>
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Hey, babe, see my shiny teeth as I smile my very best wolf smile- Ed Greenwood. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2005 : 01:38:29
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| So what is it in the story that made you unhappy? Maybe list a few and we will think about it. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Milith holder of HB8
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2005 : 03:49:02
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| Imoen didn't have any class levels, Minsc ended up as the bouncer for the Copper Cornet, the guy who you meet first in the slums now owns the Copper Cornet and works for Bodi (he's supposed to work for the Shadow Thieves), the Shadow Master (the guy in charge of the Shaow Thieves) became some pathetic assasin, Imoen became a homosexual (nothing wrong with being that, but she was not a homosexual), supposdly Imoen has enough Bhaal essence to become the Ravager, and Yoshimo's +1 Katana managed to cut through the Ravagers hide and a Moonblade could hardly scratch it, and the battle between Abdel (the main character) was pretty weak as far as battling an evil archmage. |
Hey, babe, see my shiny teeth as I smile my very best wolf smile- Ed Greenwood. |
Edited by - Milith holder of HB8 on 26 Dec 2005 04:18:05 |
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Paec_djinn
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2005 : 10:56:17
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Yeah, there have been LOTS of complains on the novel (mostly due to the differences between the game and the novel) but as for me, I think it was okay. Not as bad as what people say but still needed alot of work.
And Imoen being homosexual? I don't remember that happening. |
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Milith holder of HB8
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2005 : 16:23:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Paec_djinn
Yeah, there have been LOTS of complains on the novel (mostly due to the differences between the game and the novel) but as for me, I think it was okay. Not as bad as what people say but still needed alot of work.
And Imoen being homosexual? I don't remember that happening.
It started in the drow city, but I may be over reacting on that one now that I think about it. |
Hey, babe, see my shiny teeth as I smile my very best wolf smile- Ed Greenwood. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2005 : 03:58:14
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| Imoen homosexuality was a pretense which i think she had to do so as to keep the drow matron attention occupiedm from her comrades. But I never knew drow matrons can be so homosexual, which this struck me as peculiar about the novel. For a +1 katana cutting the Ravager sounded weird, moonblades are powerful weapons unless the Ravager got resistance to magic weapons but this does not explain how come there is no resistance to normal melee weapons. As for the battle between Abdel and the funny necromancer was...fine but not too fine. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Milith holder of HB8
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2005 : 15:14:53
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The problem is that it seems like this guy has never played the game before. Yoshimo is supposed to be dead long before Irenicis attacks the elves. That plus the elves where more orginized (with only one creature to fight) and could have just summoned the Leaf Lords Avatar. Not to mention Imoen does not have as much Bhaal essence as Abdel does and woul flick out in ten minutes (top) from the power the Ravager would be consuming.
And yet I find myself not caring untile he screws up the characters. As many of my friends agree that half the reason BG2 was a hit was because of its loveable characters. The basic plot of the story seems fine, but he messed it up with problems with the Moonblade thing and the characters. It just dosn't make any sense. Did the guy even play the game? I just felt like this was rushed and it kinda hurts to see all my favorite characters ripped apart the way they where. This isn't a personal attack on the Author, but I want to know what the hell he was thinking when he wrote this book. Was it forced upon him and TSR (and wizards) couldn't find anyone better to do it? Its a disgrace to the game and the people who made it. |
Hey, babe, see my shiny teeth as I smile my very best wolf smile- Ed Greenwood. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2005 : 15:15:30
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Maybe the Ravager is resistent to elvish magic?   |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Milith holder of HB8
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2005 : 15:57:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius
Maybe the Ravager is resistent to elvish magic?
That would only make sense if Bhaal had been a great enemy of the Seldarin. That plus +1 magical weapon could hardly touch the slayer let alone the Ravager. |
Hey, babe, see my shiny teeth as I smile my very best wolf smile- Ed Greenwood. |
Edited by - Milith holder of HB8 on 27 Dec 2005 15:58:15 |
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Paec_djinn
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2005 : 15:33:32
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| As far as I'm concerned, the game to book references aren't really that important. If he doesn't get the story correct it doesn't really matter to me, as long as he gets the plot correctly, be it in his own way or in the game way. What makes this book not that great to me is just the inconsistencies and well, the length. |
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Milith holder of HB8
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2005 : 18:04:56
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| Yeah, it was way too short. |
Hey, babe, see my shiny teeth as I smile my very best wolf smile- Ed Greenwood. |
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Sarephim
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2006 : 17:32:30
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| IMO This book and the others in the series was terrible. No offience to the Author intented, but I just felt that they were rushed and not well thought out. Plus I hated the ending in the final book although I guess it would have been a pain for TSR to add another god to the patheon. I felt that Abdel never really reached his potential in those books, in fact he was pretty pathetic to me. |
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Silrana
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2006 : 14:32:32
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Leaving aside the game-to-book comparisons, the first book is just plain awful. I did not bother to read the SoA or ToB books, because I spent the entire first book wondering why I should be cheering for Abdel over Sarevok. Abdel was generally an unpleasant character, so I could not muster any sympathy or empathy for him. The prose also left a great deal to be desired.
On the bright side, the books have provided some truly hilarious MSTy material. |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2006 : 18:37:47
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the thing wrong with imoens homosexuality isnt homosexuality... its the fact that the author used "titillating lesbian erotic" writing to get interest in a book that was horibly written and had a horrible plot (a skewed version of a fun game)
also... the game isnt really canon bc suldenessalar doesn't exist in the realms and neither does ust natha or whatever tat confangled drow outpost had.... |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2006 : 19:12:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
the thing wrong with imoens homosexuality isnt homosexuality... its the fact that the author used "titillating lesbian erotic" writing to get interest in a book that was horibly written and had a horrible plot (a skewed version of a fun game)
also... the game isnt really canon bc suldenessalar doesn't exist in the realms and neither does ust natha or whatever tat confangled drow outpost had....
Suldensasalar does exist in canon, BTW. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2006 : 23:07:19
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| Just a curiosity, where was Suldanesselar mentioned in canon lore, I've been trying to look it up without success? And was there existing lore on Ust Natha? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2006 : 23:08:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Archwizard
Just a curiosity, where was Suldanesselar mentioned in canon lore, I've been trying to look it up without success? And was there existing lore on Ust Natha?
Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate II. And in the Lands of Intrigue box set. Not sure on the 2nd reference but it's diffently in the Volo's. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2006 : 23:55:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Not sure on the 2nd reference but it's diffently in the Volo's.
Oh yes, it's in LoI.
And as I recall, Steven Schend has spoken about the elven city from time to time. Archwizard, you might want to look through his compiled replies here at Candlekeep.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2006 : 04:23:21
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| Found it, a few short paragraphs and brief mentions, but enlightening nonetheless. I ordered Volo's Guide as well and I'll take a look at Steven Schend's replies to see what I can find. Thanks everyone. |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2006 : 05:11:29
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| Any idea if Ust'Natha existed previously in canon lore or if it was an invention of the game? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2006 : 05:30:49
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Some of the lore for Baldur's Gate II was invented for much of that game, and thus did not appear in the Realmslore up to that time.
However, we know Ed wrote a lot of the lore for these CRPGs, so I think it's a fair assumption to say that Ust Natha existed in some way, shape, or form among Ed's many thousands of pages of notes for his "home" Realms campaign -- but not in the official Realmslore -- the lore we read that is published in sourcebooks. Thus, it is entirely likely that Ed either wrote it for inclusion in the game itself, or had it sitting around and thought it would make a nice addition to the background elements of the CRPG.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lucius
Seeker
98 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2006 : 13:46:17
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I'm only a mere 70 pages into Baldur's Gate, but I can understand the criticisms. It seems to move far too quickly, not really focussing on one part. The characters seem not only different from the ones I know and love, but Jaheira seems to hardly bat an eyelid when Abdel kills Kahlid! Plus, Imoan is greatly missed.
A few points I do think it's noticeable for though are the fact that Abdel seems to constantly suffer from Bloodlust, and is generally not a pleasant person. Understanderble, being a son of the God of Murder.
Also, I especially liked the fighter thief and mage (Montarion and Xrar SP? ) actually being members of the Zhents, hired by the Throne. A very nice touch. |
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Milith holder of HB8
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2006 : 14:42:20
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So which is canon? The games or the books? I was thinking of using them in a DnD game and mabey a few fanfic's, but I don't know which one to use. And does Mr. Greenwood have an opinion on this? |
Hey, babe, see my shiny teeth as I smile my very best wolf smile- Ed Greenwood. |
Edited by - Milith holder of HB8 on 31 Jan 2006 14:44:31 |
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Milith holder of HB8
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2006 : 14:57:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Lucius
I'm only a mere 70 pages into Baldur's Gate, but I can understand the criticisms. It seems to move far too quickly, not really focussing on one part. The characters seem not only different from the ones I know and love, but Jaheira seems to hardly bat an eyelid when Abdel kills Kahlid! Plus, Imoan is greatly missed.
A few points I do think it's noticeable for though are the fact that Abdel seems to constantly suffer from Bloodlust, and is generally not a pleasant person. Understanderble, being a son of the God of Murder.
Also, I especially liked the fighter thief and mage (Montarion and Xrar SP? ) actually being members of the Zhents, hired by the Throne. A very nice touch.
Thats becuase he was cheating on her or something the like, which she tried to do as well! That nearly made me sick. I mean I never got to play the first one, but I know she's enough of a prick not to try anything like that or act like the complete wimp that she is showed in the books. I never liked the harper all that much, but to mess with her as a character is just wrong. I may not like her as a person, but I respect her as a NPC.
I at first liked the idea of his blood lust getting the better of him, but then Jaheira pops in and he tries to become a goody-two shoes just to get her to like him. I just feel that their whole romance was lame and unrealistic. And I would like to know what was with this guy and people taking his clothes? |
Hey, babe, see my shiny teeth as I smile my very best wolf smile- Ed Greenwood. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2006 : 16:22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Milith holder of HB8
So which is canon? The games or the books? I was thinking of using them in a DnD game and mabey a few fanfic's, but I don't know which one to use. And does Mr. Greenwood have an opinion on this?
From Rich Baker -
""But as far as I am concerned, officially they are canon, since there are three novels based on the games, three Dragon articles on the games, and a sourcebook that ties in with the games. Also according to the WOTC timeline for FR on the WOTC web page, the BG novel is listed as canon also."
AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!! So Wizards does embrace the BG series as Cannon... on an intresting note though:
"Which is no different then the Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor game. There is a novel for that game, a module for that game, and Dragon article(s) for that game."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2006 : 16:23:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Milith holder of HB8
So which is canon? The games or the books? I was thinking of using them in a DnD game and mabey a few fanfic's, but I don't know which one to use. And does Mr. Greenwood have an opinion on this?
The novels are, and yes he answered me about this in 2004. Dig through the 2004 link that is in my sig and it's the second May 12, 2004 reply. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Milith holder of HB8
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2006 : 05:01:27
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| *Sigh* Well thats a bit of a downer, but thats life I guess. Oh well. Hey, wait did he ever play it? |
Hey, babe, see my shiny teeth as I smile my very best wolf smile- Ed Greenwood. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2006 : 05:40:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Milith holder of HB8
*Sigh* Well thats a bit of a downer, but thats life I guess. Oh well. Hey, wait did he ever play it?
I'm not sure but I'm going to say probably not..... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Baldur's Gate & Shadows of Amn books ::SPOILERS::
