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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Dec 2005 : 05:34:58
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I was just thinking about this, while pondering wizards casting spells for hire. If a wizard is not an adventurer, and doesn't particularly expect to be attacked from day to day (perhaps he has a wand or two around in case something REALLY odd happens), do you suppose it would be possible for a wizard to not prepare any spells for the day, then, if someone say, wants teleport cast, he could look it up and cast it from his spellbook, at an obviously increased time of course?
I was just thinking that, as it is described, wizards spend the first hour or so of their day partially casting spells, so that, when faced with combat, they can complete spells in a timely manner so as to actually be useful. But if a wizard isn't an adventurer, what if he didn't spend the first hour of the day partially preparing spells? What if he didn't mind, say, taking a whole hour to cast a divination spell if he decided he needed it?
I just occured to me that this could be possible, and might be fairly likely for a wizard that casts spells for hire, especially if he is fairly certain that he wouldn't have to face rival wizards, monsters, or the like.
Does this make sense, or am I missing something. In general it wouldn't affect adventuring wizards, becuase you could easily rule that it might take hours to cast a spell from a spellbook if you didn't prepare a spell right off the bat. You could even rule that if you start preparing you have to prepare all of your slots or none of them for the day, not any partial combination.
What say you fellow scribes?
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2005 : 06:20:03
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Well you need to acept the magic system as crafted in 3.X where if Wizard wants to learn even one spell [i]unseen servent[i] to take care of light tasks he still has to spend one hour in contemplation. Further a stay athome wizard would likely be in business of making potions or selling scrolls which require a spell or two to be known. A stay a home wizard would also take custom orders placed te day before.
All this said a stay at home wizard might not choose to fill all slots at the beginning of the day. " After resting, a wizard must study her spellbook to prepare any spells that day. If she wants to prepare all her spells, the process takes 1 hour. Preparing some smaller portion of her daily capacity takes a proportionally smaller amount of time, but always at least 15 minutes, the minimum time required to achieve the proper mental state. " and could by implication fill over slots not filled later in the day.
There clearly is 2nd Edition lore of Preistesses keeping spell slots filled as soon as posible thoughout the day. The rest and pray time was nerfed. You can not fill a spell slot of a spell cast within the last 8 hours, also serves to indicate that spells can be learned though out the day based on requests and a minimun of 15 minutes. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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wildmage
Acolyte
20 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2005 : 23:47:25
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This is expanded upon somewhat by Skip Williams' interpretation of the 3.5 rules over at the Wizards website (see http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050426a for more information).
Skip says that spells can be prepared in increments of 1 hour (15 min. minimum to get 1/4 of your spells prepared). He also says that 15 min. is the minimum time to prepare even 1 spell. I don't see why a wizard might not choose to "waste" a little of his 15 minutes by only concentrating on 1 spell and thus only preparing 1 spell at a time. This could be the case for a wizard who stays in his magical "clinic" all day and wants maximum flexibility for what he might prepare later.
Thus a wizard could break his day into 30 minute chunks and see "patients" much like a doctor, spending 10-12 minutes to find out what the patient wants and to haggle prices, 15 minutes preparing the requisite spell, then a couple minutes casting and getting paid. Longer casting time spells could invoke an extra fee in addition to the usual level and caster level dependent costs for spellcasting services. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 00:12:04
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That was pretty much exactly what I was thinking . . . if they don't know if someone might want indentify or whatever, they can just tell them . . . give me 15 minutes and I'll be right with you.
I was just mulling this over becuase I can picture a wizard that never really EVER adventure potentially preparing all of his spells this way. While he could lock himself in early on in the day, why do so if you may not know for sure what you want? It optimized that point of a wizard, that being in the long term more flexible than a sorcerer.
Thanks guys . . . for some reason I couldn't remember that 15 minute chunk thing before. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 04:27:32
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I agree with you guys, but a have a little different take on it. My vision of a city dwelling, non-adventuring, spell slinger for hire is as an business man of sorts. I would think that an wizard of this sort( provided he is of suffient level) would have various multi-tasking type spells always on hand( such as teleport, indentify, etc), with maybe some "space if you will" left over for your interpretation of I will be with you shortly, as he goes off to his study prepare your requested spell. I would also think that a wizard for hire like this would have on hand many potions and scrolls just for this type of thing, with maybe a higher price involved for the materials, but immediatly available and ready for use.
Anyways, my 2 cents |
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sabre
Acolyte
Turkey
47 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 15:19:37
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| İt is simple as it gets i guess.İf you live in a city and dont go adventuring all the time you can fill some of your slots, one or two from every level for example,with useful spells be it offensive,defensive or utility,and leave the rest for urgent stiuations.Rules say that you have limited number of slots and you have to study for an hour to memorize them...So study whenever you need any spell. |
sabre |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 16:04:17
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I frequently do this with my current wizard even when adventuring. I will not do it to the extent described but I'll leave a slot open at a few levels until we see what we're up against.
Spells like knock, resist/protection from energy, and various spells vs. Undead are things that I usually don't prepare but will leave slots open for them in case the current flow of the campaign changes and these things might be needed. |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 17:39:19
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Ok, so question then, could you in theory spontaneously cast a non-filled slot? IE: If I had a signature spell that I wanted to cast and only an "open" spell slot in mind.
Personally I don't see why not, but I'm curious about others' thoughts. |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 17:48:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Forge
Ok, so question then, could you in theory spontaneously cast a non-filled slot? IE: If I had a signature spell that I wanted to cast and only an "open" spell slot in mind.
Personally I don't see why not, but I'm curious about others' thoughts.
Although I don't think this was the intended nature of the rule... I don't see why you couldn't spontaneously cast a signature spell.
I don't think it would be horribly abusive either. What makes spontaneously casting very powerful for Clerics and Druids is the fact that it's essentially preparing 2 spells. The one you actually prepare plus cure or summon natures ally.
In the case of signature spell. You prepare nothing, but can cast your signature spell instead. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 18:03:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Forge
Ok, so question then, could you in theory spontaneously cast a non-filled slot? IE: If I had a signature spell that I wanted to cast and only an "open" spell slot in mind.
Personally I don't see why not, but I'm curious about others' thoughts.
The magic system is based on load, then fire. If you do not load a slot you can not fire from it.
A gun can hold 9 bullets (more or less depending on type of gun) if you only put in three bullents you can only shoot three times. To bring it to a better comparision you own 9 guns (one for each spell level) but only load them with half of what they can hold you can not shoot more times then you have bullents.
There are swaping the bullect for a different bullet (Cleric deciding to cast a healing spell) but the bullet is still used. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 18:27:06
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Kentinal, you propose an interesting point. From what you say, the potential to cast a spell is gained in the memorizing of said spell. Once you memorize it, you can release it at the time of your choosing.
My personal thought is that each mage/caster contains the energy to cast the spell, and the spell merely give that substance. (Ala Raistlin) If a spell slot isnt used, the energy is still there, but not given form.
I guess the crux is the reference in the rules where it states how the exchange takes place.
Further, if a cleric/druid doesn't prepare a spell in a slot can they spontaneously cast a cure from that? |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 18:39:48
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| idk i dont think magic is really something thats a business its more mystical and stay-at-home wizards wouldnt just be potion makers they might study all the time for fun etc. but i dont like the business spect of the impressions peopel have (that was oen giant run-on sentence) |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 18:42:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Forge
Further, if a cleric/druid doesn't prepare a spell in a slot can they spontaneously cast a cure from that?
This one I'm absolutely sure of, and the answer is YES. I don't remember where I read it, but a cleric can swap out unprepared slots for cures.
I believe it was one of those "helpful hints" or "rules of the game" articles on the WOTC website. |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 18:48:39
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Well, I was half right. I said I thought I read it on the WOTC site, that was true.
The part I was kind of wrong on was the whole swapping out an empty slot. On that note here is what the article said....
quote:
It's reasonable to allow a cleric to use a spell slot that has been left empty after daily spell preparation and ready to be filled with a spell for a spontaneous spell; however, the rules don't say you can do that.
For a full reading of the article "Rules of the Game: All about Clerics part 3" go here....
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050412a |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 18:56:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Forge
Kentinal, you propose an interesting point. From what you say, the potential to cast a spell is gained in the memorizing of said spell. Once you memorize it, you can release it at the time of your choosing.
My personal thought is that each mage/caster contains the energy to cast the spell, and the spell merely give that substance. (Ala Raistlin) If a spell slot isnt used, the energy is still there, but not given form.
I guess the crux is the reference in the rules where it states how the exchange takes place.
Further, if a cleric/druid doesn't prepare a spell in a slot can they spontaneously cast a cure from that?
Cleric is subject to same rule, they can not fire a bullet they do not have loaded.
" A good cleric (or a cleric of a good deity) can spontaneously cast a cure spell in place of a prepared spell of the same level or higher, but not in place of a domain spell."
Sor and Bards also have to reload, just a little quicker and differently.
" Each day, sorcerers and bards must focus their minds on the task of casting their spells. A sorcerer or bard needs 8 hours of rest (just like a wizard), after which he spends 15 minutes concentrating. (A bard must sing, recite, or play an instrument of some kind while concentrating.) During this period, the sorcerer or bard readies his mind to cast his daily allotment of spells. Without such a period to refresh himself, the character does not regain the spell slots he used up the day before. "
These two classes just loads all the slots with power if they get the rest and 15 minutes. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 19:03:53
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I disagree, my perception is that each slot is the POTENTIAL to cast a spell. It's like having batteries for a certain amount of devices. Not memorizing something or preparing something still leaves the capacity for use down the line. Essentially, jsut becasue you don't initially use the energy memorizing spell doesnt mean you cant use that energy later. (Hence you can memorize a spell into that spot later with just memorization time not 8 hour downtime.)
Think of it as using a revolver instead of an semi auto. You can load 3 rounds and still have 3 slots for variable-use rounds. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 19:16:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Forge
I disagree, my perception is that each slot is the POTENTIAL to cast a spell. It's like having batteries for a certain amount of devices. Not memorizing something or preparing something still leaves the capacity for use down the line. Essentially, jsut becasue you don't initially use the energy memorizing spell doesnt mean you cant use that energy later. (Hence you can memorize a spell into that spot later with just memorization time not 8 hour downtime.)
Think of it as using a revolver instead of an semi auto. You can load 3 rounds and still have 3 slots for variable-use rounds.
We are not that much in disagreement as you might think.
If you are a good person (get the required rest) you are given enough bullents to load your guns. Now one day instead of wanting to spend an hour loading your guns you only spend 30 minutes, your guns are half loaded. You do not expect to use all of the bullets.
The day goes worst then you expected you run out of bullets, you can not shoot a bullet you do not have loaded (an empty spell slot) unless you take time out from the battle to load more bullets (which takes 15 minutes more minimun even if only putting in one bullet, though most would put in 25 percent of bullets they started the day with) before you can fire agai. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2005 : 19:44:49
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I never really got back to the first idea that led me to think of this in the first place. Often times D&D is cited as not working for "low-magic" campaigns, because of the quick and easy combat magic and the like. What I was thinking is this, especially as it relates to portals to other worlds, etc.
What if most "standard" D&D wizards have a feat or class feature at first level, unlisted, that allows them to partially cast spells, thus allowing for preparation and the quick use of magic later on. Other wizards in worlds, lets use Newhon for example, may never have learned this class feature. So in this case, its not the "level" of magic in the world so much as the skills that wizards have developed to cast the spell. And if you can't use magic in in such a quick manner, combat spells like fireball and magic missle would be less likely to even be developed (keep fighting for another fifteen minutes guys . . . then they bad guys will REALLY be hurting, trust me!).
This would also mean that a wizard from one of these settings, if they spent time with a wizard from Greyhawk or Toril, could likely learn how to prepare their spells in this manner and thus become a normal "adventuring" type wizard.
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Theoretical Spellcasting for Wizards
