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Krendar
Acolyte
8 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Nov 2005 : 15:52:08
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I will preface this by stating that I only read the Forgotten Realms novels, not the source books.
Can someone explaine to me the difference between the portfolios of Maks and Shar. They seem very similiar and there seem to be areas of overlap. If someone could provide this information it would be greatly appreciated..
Mod edit: Moved to a more appropriate section of the library.
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Edited by - The Sage on 23 Nov 2005 16:29:35
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2005 : 16:22:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Krendar
I will preface this by stating that I only read the Forgotten Realms novels, not the source books.
Can someone explaine to me the difference between the portfolios of Maks and Shar. They seem very similiar and there seem to be areas of overlap. If someone could provide this information it would be greatly appreciated..
Mask is the god of thieves, mostly, while Shar is the goddess of darkness(!*). They do overlap in that they both have portfolios relating to darkness/sbadows/night, but both have different takes on it-Mask deals with the thieving side, while Shar deals with the magical/spiritual side of it all.
* Shouldn't Shar have the portfolio of shadows while Mask has dark, or night, or something? Whatever. *pencils in house rules* |
Edited by - Arivia on 23 Nov 2005 16:31:04 |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2005 : 17:11:58
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If I remember correctly, Shar agrees with you that she should have the portfolio of shadows, although I doubt she'd want Mask to have dark or night instead of her And I do believe Cyric is after Shadows too, so it's a good thing for Mask he's good at hide-and-seek. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2005 : 18:44:01
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Yeah, and remember - Mask already lost some of his portfolio to Cyric, so he's really got to be paranoid! Wouldn't you think that controlling the Shadow Weave should give you some dominion over Shadows, though?
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2005 : 19:29:30
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Shar is the goddess of darkness, night, and loss. She gains a lot of followers by emphasising the loss section of her portfolio, making people forget about their pain. Ultimately, Shar wants to control everything, but her plan in doing so is to nullify everything so that she is in charge by default, since everything has ceased to exist and all is in darkness. Secrets are also part of her domain.
Mask is the god of shadows, theivery, and at one time intruigue. I'm not really sure if he is officially the god of intruige again, but if he isn't, he doesn't tell his followers that. Mask's plans aren't as grandiose as Shar's, nor would Mask want to openly control things, but would like to pull the strings of those who do. Mask is interested in the Shadow Weave, mainly due to the fact that it is an intrigue matter (spellcasters using a secret form of magic) and it has to do with shadows. Dispite this, Mask seems more likely to find a "back door" to access the Shadow Weave than to try and wrestle it from Shar directly. The only god that Mask seems intent on directly butting heads with is Cyric, who stole the portfolio of intrigue from Mask.
The Erevis Cale books touch on a lot of this, and I am sure Paul S. Kemp's next trilogy, the Shadow War, will really get into it, since it features . . . well, the Shadovar are involved and they are certainly bound to Shar . . . I'll not go too much further for those that haven't read the Cale books. |
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jean-loup
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 11:28:43
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
The Erevis Cale books touch on a lot of this, and I am sure Paul S. Kemp's next trilogy, the Shadow War, will really get into it, since it features . . . well, the Shadovar are involved and they are certainly bound to Shar . . . I'll not go too much further for those that haven't read the Cale books.
the shadovars are very close to shar see Lords of darkness you can see one son of the high prince is a priest of Shar |
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jean-loup
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 11:31:06
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
The Erevis Cale books touch on a lot of this, and I am sure Paul S. Kemp's next trilogy, the Shadow War, will really get into it, since it features . . . well, the Shadovar are involved and they are certainly bound to Shar . . . I'll not go too much further for those that haven't read the Cale books.
one son's of the high prince is a cleric of shar |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 17:38:48
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I guess I have to find the time to read those Erevis Cale novels. Now that I know what they're about - they sound a lot more interesing. 
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2005 : 21:34:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
* Shouldn't Shar have the portfolio of shadows while Mask has dark, or night, or something? Whatever. *pencils in house rules*
No. Why? Because remember, shadows cannot exist without at least some light. If Shar wants the void of nothingness to envelope everything, how can there be shadows?
Just my personal theory. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 25 Nov 2005 21:36:15 |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2005 : 23:33:35
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| And three stars to the best explanation of it I've read so far |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 02:05:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
And three stars to the best explanation of it I've read so far
My explanation? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 02:20:25
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| Yup. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 05:41:17
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| Thank you! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Vendrin
Acolyte
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 08:29:15
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Shar is an excuse for a goddess. I'd rather prefer her to be some minor goddess then a greater simply because her plan is so idiotic I do not see how any wish to follow her. So when she takes over the world all there will be is nothingness. Oh yea, I really want to help that come so I can be nothingness to!
I can semi understand those who just want an end to pain, but there are so many better evil gods that can teach you to focus the pain and control it. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 16:52:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Vendrin
Shar is an excuse for a goddess. I'd rather prefer her to be some minor goddess then a greater simply because her plan is so idiotic I do not see how any wish to follow her. So when she takes over the world all there will be is nothingness. Oh yea, I really want to help that come so I can be nothingness to!
I can semi understand those who just want an end to pain, but there are so many better evil gods that can teach you to focus the pain and control it.
But for a lot of people who are in pain, oblivion is preferable to living with pain. I'm not going to argue morals or anything, but I can understand wanting an end to it all, rather than learning to live with what a person considers unbearable pain. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Vendrin
Acolyte
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 22:11:34
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| Then worship Ilmater or just open your viens. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 22:26:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Vendrin
Then worship Ilmater or just open your viens.
The former choice is not suitable for all people, nor does it get rid of the pain. And the latter choice isn't always ideal, especially if you've other things you want to do. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2005 : 01:06:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Vendrin
Then worship Ilmater or just open your viens.
The former choice is not suitable for all people, nor does it get rid of the pain. And the latter choice isn't always ideal, especially if you've other things you want to do.
Ilmater is about the "endurance" of suffering, not an end to it. Learning to control pain, while giving you some specific freedom from it, doesn't remove it. A momentary lapse could result in a loss of concentration and the pain, while previously under control, will come back and make a strike with deadly effect. It isn't an answer to pain, merely a way to handle what exists. Pain isn't just a mental effect, it is a physical one as well. Endurance and control can't always make you a master of both.
Shar promotes loss and escape, plain and simple. To believe and accept that the pain itself no longer exists -- by losing yourself in a fit of mental oblivion -- not only do you finally release yourself from the pain but you also escape its domination over your being. More than just a mere mental state, Shar can, ultimately, als be about the end of physical suffering by being an end in and of itself.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 28 Nov 2005 01:09:55 |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2005 : 14:42:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Vendrin
Shar is an excuse for a goddess. I'd rather prefer her to be some minor goddess then a greater simply because her plan is so idiotic I do not see how any wish to follow her. So when she takes over the world all there will be is nothingness. Oh yea, I really want to help that come so I can be nothingness to!
I can semi understand those who just want an end to pain, but there are so many better evil gods that can teach you to focus the pain and control it.
To be honest, Shar is the most believable, truly evil deity of the realms there is.
When looking at her dogma from the POV of a worshipper, don't look at the ENTIRE picture. Just at limited aspects of her portfolio. Say, as a spellcaster, the shadow weave. As someone in psychical pain, loss. As a vampire, darkness or night.
Because thats really how she gains her strength. Individualized aspects. She also uses a lot of disguises and lies to get her followers. Remember how she stole the Underdark portfolio. The ol' lass is a sneaky one, indeed.
Usually, the only one to TRULY embrace Shars dogma in its entirety are exceptionally devout worshippers - such as say, Clerics. |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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Shar vs. Mask
