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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 03:08:29
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I was wondering if there was a symbol for the Triad collectively? For a character I am creating a backstory for he inherited a masterwork longsword from a knight that payed homage to Torm, Tyr, and Ilmater so I was wondering if there was a symbol that I should have as decoration to the hilt.
I suppose I can always use Tyr's holy symbol as he is the "leader" of the triad but it would be better if the symbol was not for a specific deity.
As always....
Thanks in advance.
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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 03:18:10
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| I'm not aware of any single symbol that represents all three members of the Triad. Could you place all three holy symbols on the sword, signifying that it is dedicated to the cause of all three gods, not just one singly? |
"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
-St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 03:22:44
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| That is a possibility, thanks. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't already a symbol for them. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 03:36:38
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Not that I recall.
The Triad isn't really an "official" deity collective, in the terms that it is commonly regarded as such by every single deity or worshipper. Most of the clergy for Tyr, Torm, and Ilmater likely know and appreciate the significance of such a grouping, but it isn't something that gets passed around alot as a proper naming or definitive divine reference. I think it's more of an "unofficial" grouping... just a reference like, "these three deities are sometimes referred to as the Triad" -- a reflection of their respective similarities between their portfolios.
And looking at Tyr's entry in F&A, we see that this is also the case.
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Edited by - The Sage on 15 Nov 2005 03:39:11 |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 06:28:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
That is a possibility, thanks. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't already a symbol for them.
Or intertwine the symbols. Tyr's holy symbol as per F&P is scales of justice with a trailing red cord and a hammer imposed over them. replace the hammer with the symbol of Torm (the upright gauntleted hand) and one has a potential representation of the Triad. (The red cord being also part of Ilmater's symbol...) |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 13:38:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
That is a possibility, thanks. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't already a symbol for them.
Or intertwine the symbols. Tyr's holy symbol as per F&P is scales of justice with a trailing red cord and a hammer imposed over them. replace the hammer with the symbol of Torm (the upright gauntleted hand) and one has a potential representation of the Triad. (The red cord being also part of Ilmater's symbol...)
Perfect answer and just what I was going to suggest. Good job, ace. 
Yes, those of the Triad either use that amalgamated symbol (and only those who've been part of this since the reunification of Tethyr--the new symbol being requested by the Crown Ecclesiastic to be used with a stained glass window in Faerntarn) or all three symbols stamped onto an item like runes.
Steven
Who would remind folks that one other mark might come onto things--the flower of whatever saint's abbey/cloister the item came from.....and then he realizes he only set up libraries and such, not forges in Ilmater's name, and thus he should fix that soon.......over in his group |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 19:27:18
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You know..I kinda just realized something. Three is a very powerful number in the realms.
You have Selune, Mystra and Mielikki all being worshiped
You have Tyr, Torm and Ilmater
You have the three Seldarine's who cametogether to protect Corellon from Araunshee
and, last but not least, you have Lathander, Selune and Chauntea. Yes, I'm speaking of The Triangle of Three :) *cough* |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 20:17:27
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You forgot the "Dark Three" - Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul , or how about the "Risen Three" - Cyric, Kelemvor and Mystra.
Three is a fairly powerful number (at least symbolically) in the Real World as well - Three wise men, or the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit to use christian examples, but it is far from just a christian occurence - for example, according to the texts on the (possibly mythical) Asa-temple in Uppsala, it had three major idols in it (Oden/Odin, Tor/Thor, and Frej/Frey).
If you take the time, you'll be able to come up with dozens and dozens of threes (and probably quite a number of sevens and twelves as well). |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 20:28:29
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That's because historically and mythically, three has always held much power. I think it's because it shows up time and time again, it's easy to use three (and multiples there of) in a lot of lore. Look at the gods of Krynn (3 main ones). Heck, look at Christianity.
Anyway, three pops up all the time - same as that pesky seven!
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 21:09:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
[quote]
Who would remind folks that one other mark might come onto things--the flower of whatever saint's abbey/cloister the item came from.....and then he realizes he only set up libraries and such, not forges in Ilmater's name, and thus he should fix that soon.......over in his group
Posted something to this topic in the above-mentioned thread.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 21:34:36
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>>You know..I kinda just realized something. Three is a very >>powerful number in the realms.
Don't forget "the threesome", a dream held by all young dalesmen that they'd like to experience <g>.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 23:05:57
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
>>You know..I kinda just realized something. Three is a very >>powerful number in the realms.
Don't forget "the threesome", a dream held by all young dalesmen that they'd like to experience <g>.
Ah, shared by many, but not by I. More of a "Give attention to one" fellow my self. |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 23:06:49
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Maiden/Mother/Crone. :)
Also Planescape loved the rule of threes and it's all over the place in the Planecape lore. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2005 : 00:52:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Yes, those of the Triad either use that amalgamated symbol (and only those who've been part of this since the reunification of Tethyr--the new symbol being requested by the Crown Ecclesiastic to be used with a stained glass window in Faerntarn) or all three symbols stamped onto an item like runes.
Alternatively, for the amalgameted symbol, we could have a representation that evokes each of the three principles of the Triad more specifically... each held in respective power to Tyr as its head. For example, the metal gauntlet of Torm could grip the warhammer of Tyr's symbol -- representing the need to pursue "dutiful justice", while the balanced set of scales could be held by the bounded wrists of Ilmater's symbol which in turn reflects the need for perserverance in the face of pursuing balanced justice for all.
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2005 : 13:37:46
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Yes, those of the Triad either use that amalgamated symbol (and only those who've been part of this since the reunification of Tethyr--the new symbol being requested by the Crown Ecclesiastic to be used with a stained glass window in Faerntarn) or all three symbols stamped onto an item like runes.
Alternatively, for the amalgameted symbol, we could have a representation that evokes each of the three principles of the Triad more specifically... each held in respective power to Tyr as its head. For example, the metal gauntlet of Torm could grip the warhammer of Tyr's symbol -- representing the need to pursue "dutiful justice", while the balanced set of scales could be held by the bounded wrists of Ilmater's symbol which in turn reflects the need for perserverance in the face of pursuing balanced justice for all.
I like that too. Maybe that's something used specifically at Triad temples and is currently a potential schism point as artisans and the faithful jockey to see which unified symbol becomes the norm.  |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2005 : 14:38:32
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So, you're saying their could be a religious feud between the clery and the faithful and the artisans? I think if they faithful were devout enough to one of the triad, they would always want their symbol on top. That seems to be human nature.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2005 : 02:24:37
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
So, you're saying their could be a religious feud between the clery and the faithful and the artisans? I think if they faithful were devout enough to one of the triad, they would always want their symbol on top. That seems to be human nature.
C-Fb
Which might be a reason to generate a circular symbol that is mounted on a wheel, so whoever is the ranking priest in charge at that moment can turn his god's marker highest? Works for me....
SES |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2005 : 02:36:48
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| I would say Tyr's symbol should always be on top since he is the "Greater" deity and is the "leader" of the three gods. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2005 : 03:13:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
I would say Tyr's symbol should always be on top since he is the "Greater" deity and is the "leader" of the three gods.
Which was what I was getting at earlier with my own suggestion. It reflects how both duty - Torm - and perserverance - Ilmater - are crucial aspects to the pursuit and application of even-handed justice - Tyr.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 17 Nov 2005 03:14:52 |
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Symbol for the Triad?
