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Tathral
Acolyte
7 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 01:23:31
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I'm wondering about where I can find references (in sourcebooks or novels) to the ancient Shadow Weave users (specifically the Shadowking) that supposedly existed in Talfir and Tethyr that is mentined in the Feats section of RoF(page168). I'm trying to get a better grasp of the timeline of Shadow Weave use in the Realms, and a ruler who used shadowmagic in Faerun's past would seem pretty important for that (even though I can't find much else about it).
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 01:39:39
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| Check out Mark Anthony's novels Crypt of the Shadowking and Curse of the Shadowmage. Also, there is some references to the Shadowking in Serpent Kingdoms, in the Najara segment if I recall correctly. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 02:03:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Murray Leeder
Check out Mark Anthony's novels Crypt of the Shadowking and Curse of the Shadowmage. Also, there is some references to the Shadowking in Serpent Kingdoms, in the Najara segment if I recall correctly.
However, shadow magic is not the same as Shadow Weave magic. :) Shadow magic can be used through both weaves. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 18:02:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Tathral
I'm wondering about where I can find references (in sourcebooks or novels) to the ancient Shadow Weave users (specifically the Shadowking) that supposedly existed in Talfir and Tethyr that is mentined in the Feats section of RoF(page168). I'm trying to get a better grasp of the timeline of Shadow Weave use in the Realms, and a ruler who used shadowmagic in Faerun's past would seem pretty important for that (even though I can't find much else about it).
IIRC it is not so much the country of Tethyr, but more the human subrace Tethyrian (as described in Races of Faerun). Likely they inherited it from the Talfir whcih seem to have been absorbed into the Tethyrian group a long time ago... |
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Magus Rages
Acolyte
15 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 01:19:40
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If the Shadowking is the first true user of the Shadow Weave magic, it is quite possible that Shar personally had a hand in guiding him to use it, and a highly possible answer that the ShadowKing's mind was corrupted by the Shadow Weave, but I find it highly odd that the children of the Shadowking all had "Genetically Inherited talent" or natural affinity for Shadow Magic, how is it that he can pass on the talent and affinity for Shadow or Shadow Weave magic?
Did Shar permit it? Also how many years was it when Shar finally created the Shadow Weave after the Weave creation?
I have not heard of Mystra's Chosen passing on any talents or affinities for Weave Magic to their Children or there maybe "pseudo-Chosen" popping up in the Realms.
Also, it seems that I had a misguided perception that only the Shadow Weave permits Shadow Magic, but how is it that the Weave can allow use of Shadow Magic? If so, wouldn't the Shadovar be split into two groups of Shadow Magic users using two different Weaves. Also, which Weave grants better and superior Shadow Magic? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 01:35:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Magus Rages
If the Shadowking is the first true user of the Shadow Weave magic, it is quite possible that Shar personally had a hand in guiding him to use it, and a highly possible answer that the ShadowKing's mind was corrupted by the Shadow Weave, but I find it highly odd that the children of the Shadowking all had "Genetically Inherited talent" or natural affinity for Shadow Magic, how is it that he can pass on the talent and affinity for Shadow or Shadow Weave magic?
Did Shar permit it? Also how many years was it when Shar finally created the Shadow Weave after the Weave creation?
I have not heard of Mystra's Chosen passing on any talents or affinities for Weave Magic to their Children or there maybe "pseudo-Chosen" popping up in the Realms.
Also, it seems that I had a misguided perception that only the Shadow Weave permits Shadow Magic, but how is it that the Weave can allow use of Shadow Magic? If so, wouldn't the Shadovar be split into two groups of Shadow Magic users using two different Weaves. Also, which Weave grants better and superior Shadow Magic?
You're confusing Shadow Weave magic with Shadow magic. They are not the same thing. Shadow Weave magic is a filter, like the Weave, which magic can be drawn through. Shadow Magic is a "school" of magic that can be used through both the Weave and the Shadow Weave. Even the 3/3.5e PHB has spells that have a Shadow magic tag, and in 2e there was a whole "school" called Shadow magic, which means that Shadow magic can be cast through both Weaves. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 02:05:10
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I have a theory. The Shadowking could have been an attempt at developing a powerful user of Shadow Weave without sacrificing Shar's Divine power like Mystra. As a Shadow Weave user his power over the illusion subschool of Shadows would have been boosted. Perhaps part of the experiment linked shadow magic to the blood of the family of the Shadowking. Plus the potential of turning into the next Shadowking and the possiblity of developing a Shadow Weave User feat during the mystical transformation. With the Shadow Magic power boost.
Just some ideas. I have not read the books, but I do have the Heroes Lorebook. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Tathral
Acolyte
7 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 05:07:43
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| Thanks for those references Murray. But let me get this straight: The Shadowking was not using Shadow Weave magic, but instead using Shadow Magic, a wholly separate entity like the variants of elemental magic and such? In regards to the PHB 3.5 describing "shadow magic" spells that can be used by regular magic users, I'm not sure if that is relevant. It seems to me that PHB magic in general has only the basics in common with Faerun, and the FR setting changes several things. If Shadow Magic is described as different than the Shadow Weave (not just spells with the shadow descriptor)is mentioned anywhere in the FR cannon, please point me to it. Also, are there any good references on the Talfir? Please and thanks! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 05:16:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Tathral
Also, are there any good references on the Talfir? Please and thanks!
Aside from Races of Faerun... try Serpent Kingdoms. The little lore there is sketchy at best... mainly because Eric has only had limited chances to integrate what there is already written about the talfir into actual official FR content.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 08:10:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Tathral
Thanks for those references Murray. But let me get this straight: The Shadowking was not using Shadow Weave magic, but instead using Shadow Magic, a wholly separate entity like the variants of elemental magic and such? In regards to the PHB 3.5 describing "shadow magic" spells that can be used by regular magic users, I'm not sure if that is relevant. It seems to me that PHB magic in general has only the basics in common with Faerun, and the FR setting changes several things. If Shadow Magic is described as different than the Shadow Weave (not just spells with the shadow descriptor)is mentioned anywhere in the FR cannon, please point me to it. Also, are there any good references on the Talfir? Please and thanks!
It is relevent because shadow magic is not the same as Shadow Weave magic. I've said this. :) 1) When those novels were written there was no Shadow Weave and there was only shadow magic. 2) Shadow magic can be cast through both Weaves. 3) Shadow magic was a subschool in 2e, which is when those novels were written. 4) Shadow magic also is connected to the plane of Shadow, or in 2e's case, the demiplane of Shadow, but that doesn't mean Shadow Weave magic is drawn from the Shadow plane. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 11 Nov 2005 16:29:30 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 11:37:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Tathral
Thanks for those references Murray. But let me get this straight: The Shadowking was not using Shadow Weave magic, but instead using Shadow Magic, a wholly separate entity like the variants of elemental magic and such? In regards to the PHB 3.5 describing "shadow magic" spells that can be used by regular magic users, I'm not sure if that is relevant. It seems to me that PHB magic in general has only the basics in common with Faerun, and the FR setting changes several things. If Shadow Magic is described as different than the Shadow Weave (not just spells with the shadow descriptor)is mentioned anywhere in the FR cannon, please point me to it. Also, are there any good references on the Talfir? Please and thanks!
It's simple: Shadow Magic is just another form of magic. It's like fire magic, or ice magic, or water magic, etc. Any mage can use it, in any world.
The Shadow Weave is a dark mirror of the regular Weave. Realms mages draw their magic thru one of the Weaves. Most mages use the regular Weave, but Shades and the other Shadow Weave users draw their magic from the Shadow Weave. Not all Shadow Weave spells are shadow magic -- a Shadow Weave user could cast non-shadowy spells all day long, if he wanted. |
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Ancient Shadow Magic
