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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Nov 2005 : 13:56:13
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Well I was thinking about the changes that Obould Many-Arrows went through, when he was chosen.
Do you think that the deties can vary the blessing they give to the mortals? To me it seems strange that Grummsch would give higher Int/Wi and/or tactic understanding to Obould. The first choice should be an increase in Str and Con. One first glance a mighty warrior would benefit from those - at least if he is an orc. Do you think that grummsch himself changes tactics? How will Toril be safe from thinking orcs? At least the North will have a really big problem for years to come, won't you say so?
Edit: I edited the spelling in the subject, to facilitate future searches.
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Nov 2005 00:04:31
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2005 : 15:13:29
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Although I agree with you, Obould is now the Chosen of Gruumsh, it has not been officially stated anywhere that Obould is now a chosen.
I'm sure the deities could vary the blessing they give mortals. They're deities, they can grant their followers whatever they want. However, I don't really think of the racial modifiers as a "blessing", I think of them more as evolutionary physical traits. Obould's increased intelligence is a gift from Gruumsh, but there is no reason to suspect more orcs will be getting this benefit.
Giving Obould heightened mental capacity was far more valuable that giving him Strength and Constitution (which he also received). Obould's ability to unit the Orcs into one gigantic army aided the Orc's cause far more than any of his physical capabilities.
As to "How will Toril be safe from thinking orcs?" The vast majority of orcs are still extremely chaotic and stupid, it is only Obould that holds them together. This has proved to be very significant in the Silver Marches but it's not likely to develop into a Toril-wide issue. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2005 : 15:17:05
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Look at how Obould himself regarded the Orcs after his change. He was disgusted with the majority of them because they could not follow his lines of thought. So, in a way, what Gruumsh gave to him might have been a curse and not a blessing.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2005 : 20:08:32
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For the record, I agree with Ed Greenwood that the only Chosen (with a captial C) that make sense are the Chosen of Mystra...
Also, I thought Obould was pretty intelligent for an orc even before he become "Obould-Who-Is-Grummsh". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2005 : 22:34:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Matthus
Do you think that the deties can vary the blessing they give to the mortals?
Indeed. Deities are a powerful bunch, operating on a different skill than mortals. Look at Mystra: when one of the Magisters leaves that position, they've got a variety of options available to them. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2005 : 23:18:22
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I believe that any of the deities can have a Chosen - as they are deities and need their representing on Faerun as well. Fzoul has the blessing of Bane, but I don't think his advantages are anywhere as near to being as powerful as Mystra's.
C-Fb
P.s. - I think it'd be great to run into a Chosen of Sune!  |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2005 : 00:02:27
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
I believe that any of the deities can have a Chosen - as they are deities and need their representing on Faerun as well. Fzoul has the blessing of Bane, but I don't think his advantages are anywhere as near to being as powerful as Mystra's.
I don't mind other deities having their own divine champions, I just think that only Mystra should have Chosen. Most of the so-called Chosen other deities have are either seriously blessed mortals, or they are mortals that get a nifty ability or two. They are nothing like Mystra's Chosen, so I think they should be called something else.
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
P.s. - I think it'd be great to run into a Chosen of Sune!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2005 : 00:14:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
I believe that any of the deities can have a Chosen - as they are deities and need their representing on Faerun as well. Fzoul has the blessing of Bane, but I don't think his advantages are anywhere as near to being as powerful as Mystra's.
I don't mind other deities having their own divine champions, I just think that only Mystra should have Chosen. Most of the so-called Chosen other deities have are either seriously blessed mortals, or they are mortals that get a nifty ability or two. They are nothing like Mystra's Chosen, so I think they should be called something else.
Something I agree with completely, as I've said this more than once.
I would prefer that more of the divine champions (or in this case "Chosens") of a particular deity to be referred to as something else. A title or rank that is perhaps indicative of the deity the champion serves or a title that reflects the main portfolios of the god. This would serve to further differeniate between the natures of divine champions, illustrating the main differences between those who serve the Lady of Mysteries as her Chosen, and the one great proponent of another god's faith.
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2005 : 00:40:38
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In most cases a "chosen" is either "the Pope" of the deitys relgion (such as Fzoul) or a "Hatchetman" (such as Cyrics chosen Malek and Lolths new chosen who I will not name for those who havent read all the WOSQ novels)
Mystras chosen are of cause abit different thanks to Ao who insisted she create them to suspon off some of her power. However since the Time of Troubles the need for Mystras chosen should decline. While Pre Time of Troubles Mystra was exstremly powerful, now Mystra's power is derived from the number of worshipers she has (along with every other deity) so I think where going to see a gradual decline in Mystra's power for following reasons
1) Her portfoilos only really appeal to Wizards and Sorcerers, she doesnt have any "mass appeal" unlike say Chauntea or Tempus there simply arent enough Sorcerers and Wizards worshipers to justify a greater power
2) Her target "worshiper demographic" is shared by a number of other deities ie Azuth, Savra's and Velshoon who are all "fighting for the same pool of worshipers)To make matters worse if the Mulhorand pantheon merges with the Faerunian pantehon then there will be another 3 deities "of magic" in the pantheon
3)Up until recently Mystra was the only goddess of Magic but now weve got Shar and her shadow weave. Theres a fairly good chance that Shar will pick up a lot of Mystras evil worshipers who dont agree with her goody 2 shoes ethics (ie NG)
In short I dont see Mystra 2.0 sacrificing anymore of her power to create another chosen even if one of the existing chosen where to die ie Elminster, Blackstaff, the Seven sisters etc |
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Emperor Sigismund
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Edited by - Dargoth on 08 Nov 2005 00:42:04 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2005 : 16:08:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't mind other deities having their own divine champions, I just think that only Mystra should have Chosen. Most of the so-called Chosen other deities have are either seriously blessed mortals, or they are mortals that get a nifty ability or two. They are nothing like Mystra's Chosen, so I think they should be called something else.
Those are my feelings, as well. The whole point of Mystra having Chosen is because she has to have a check on her power. The other deities having chosen often becomes an excuse for characters to have a list of new powers. I'm not fond of the mentality that any character with a religious bent (or even some without a serious religious bent--see the early Cadderly) to become a Chosen. Crennen, the deities already have representation--by their priests.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2005 : 17:01:31
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Hello-
Having read the earlier posts on this - I'll add a note or two now.
1) I did not realize that, at least in part, Mystra's Chosen were due to her needing to have her power level checked.... interesting.
2) I agree that calling ALL dieties "special abilities added" people 'Chosen' is a bit poor form - and could become confusing.
However - I DO beleive that ANY deity could if they so choose have 'chosen' (notice the lower case!). As far as naming them - there are a couple of options. As someone else pointed out - you could create a name that is reminiscent of the deity or their portfolio in some way. Another option - one which might be a bit easier - would be to create another 'name' to replace 'chosen' that has the connotation of 'Special person of XXX's faith'. Maybe, just as illustration - we could call them "The Right hand of XXX' (or the Left hand of Tyr, if you must....). and make it a Template (*Oooh - I'm starting to use 3.5 terminology - a big step for someone who has not really played 3.0/3.5 yet....). The idea here would be to be able to categorize them all together much like we/they have tried to do by using the 'chosen' moniker. Now - this could lead to an interesting point.... If Mystra's Chosen are at least partially in place to put a limiter on her power level - then there is no reason why we could not have a 'Right hand of Mystra'. We then keep the 'Chosen' associate strictly with Mystra - and keep them at a different power level than the 'Right Hands'.
As an aside - someone mentioned beleiving that the 'Chosen or chosen' of Mystra / Others seemed to be an excuse for adding extra powers to characters. I disagree in some way - I view the concept of another deity's 'chosen, or Right Hands' to be set up as being the realms of NPC - either as allies or adversaries. Of course - if we go the route of 'Right Hand' then we could scale back the power a bit - and they possibly use it for PCs if appropriate.
Hmmmm - another positive point about using it as a Template as opposed to a PrC would be that the DM could control it more. As I understand it - a character can't treally 'decide' that he wants a template - and then just get it - it would have to be worked into the storyline - and would have to make sense. Quite an interesting idea I've thunk up while replying to this thread!
Dhomal |
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Chosen of Gruumsh
