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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Nov 2005 : 21:01:10
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| I'm into part 4 now. I don't understand why Willem wants Phyrea so badly--she's a jerk and a manipulator. Still, Willem continues to show himself as a wonderfully complicated character. It's very interesting to read about someone who will kill to get ahead, but feels regret about it (hmm, reminds me of Macbeth...). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 01:31:53
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Finished this book yesterday. While I mentioned that I don't much like the Phyrea, I have to admit that her character is interesting. Besides, I've never read about an FR character who cuts herself before (talk about a dash of the real world in a fantasy book, albeit a grim one). I cannot decide, however, if the scene where Ivar Devorast "comes to her" wwas just a fantasy or not. It just didn't seem like something in Ivar's character to do.
At any rate, this book was almost all build-up (and no real climax) and I very much enjoyed reading it. I'm even more excited now to find out what happens with Willem and Marek. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Malarick
Seeker
United Kingdom
86 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 10:43:28
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Thanks for your posts in this section, they have been great to read. I hope people will pick up this book this month, and then discuss your comments with you.
I think Lord Rad has this novel scheduled to read this month, so maybe he will come over and share his thoughts too? |
Malarick
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 23:42:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Malarick
Thanks for your posts in this section, they have been great to read. I hope people will pick up this book this month, and then discuss your comments with you.
I think Lord Rad has this novel scheduled to read this month, so maybe he will come over and share his thoughts too?
That's right. I'll be starting this book at some point over the weekend. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 21:38:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Malarick
Thanks for your posts in this section, they have been great to read. I hope people will pick up this book this month, and then discuss your comments with you.
You're welcome. I'd be glad to discuss the book with others, as I have plenty of things to say about it. ;) |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2005 : 18:11:22
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I thought the violence in this part of the book was very well done. Descriptions of sliding daggers into flesh was particularly nasty and made me whince!
I thought the 45,000gp cost of the "modern art" was a bit outrageous and felt out of place. It doesn't make sense in this type of world, where every copper piece counts.
Phyrea was probably my favorite character of this book. She had a lot of interesting qualities and scenes which contained her stand out for me.
Overall, I was quite disappointed in the book. Maybe i'm not looking at it as part of a trilogy, but the lack of the "canal" was puzzling. It wasn't really until the last few pages when we hear something like "so, why don't you build that canal?". I'd expected this to start within the first 1/3 of the book, not just to have a brief mention at the end. So overall - too much pointless dialog and disjointed scenes. The start of the book was great, I really enjoyed it, but it seemed to deflate the more I read, until I ended up, sadly, quite bored  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2005 : 18:12:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Malarick
Thanks for your posts in this section, they have been great to read. I hope people will pick up this book this month, and then discuss your comments with you.
You're welcome. I'd be glad to discuss the book with others, as I have plenty of things to say about it. ;)
Fire away. I'm interested to hear what you have to say about this one See my comments above. Do you feel the same, or did the book really work for you? I wonder if I missed something  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Ignorance Personified
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2005 : 21:07:20
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quote:
Originally Posted By Lord Rad
Phyrea was probably my favorite character of this book. She had a lot of interesting qualities and scenes which contained her stand out for me.
I found Phyrea's sudden realization of her "need" to have Devorast penetrate her near the conclusion of the novel to be out of place. She glances at the man and feels the need to know him better...the author should have provided some explanation. As Devorast is not characterized a a particularly attrative male in the novel, mere sexual attraction does not seem to be sufficient. Consequently, I found Phyrea to be one of my least favorite characters (probably second after Devorast), but the scene does "stand out for me"--just not in a positive manner.
quote:
I thought the 45,000gp cost of the "modern art" was a bit outrageous and felt out of place. It doesn't make sense in this type of world, where every copper piece counts.
Indeed it seemed out of place to me as well.
As an aside, did anyone find Devorast to be an appealing character? |
Carthago delenda est. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2005 : 04:23:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Malarick
Thanks for your posts in this section, they have been great to read. I hope people will pick up this book this month, and then discuss your comments with you.
You're welcome. I'd be glad to discuss the book with others, as I have plenty of things to say about it. ;)
Fire away. I'm interested to hear what you have to say about this one See my comments above. Do you feel the same, or did the book really work for you? I wonder if I missed something
I don't think you "missed something", Rad. Some books just don't work for you, that's all (same goes for me). This book did work for me, mainly because I love intrigue and gray characters. Just about all the characters, except for Devorast, had a human element to them. And Phyrea was interesting, even though some of her scenes at the end of the book were confusing. Who were those ghosts--were they real, or a part of Phyrea's overactive imagination? Why did they encourage her to cut herself, with a special sword, no less? And what's with her inexplicable infatuation with Ivar Devorast?
quote:
As an aside, did anyone find Devorast to be an appealing character?
You probably already know this, but he was my least favorite character--I didn't like him, and I didn't even get that interested in him, either. Is it a good thing when I start hoping the bad guy "wins"? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2005 : 09:38:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
[brWho were those ghosts--were they real, or a part of Phyrea's overactive imagination? Why did they encourage her to cut herself, with a special sword, no less?
I quite liked this scene and it came at the right point in the novel as i'd found it in quite a lull prior to this point. But, like you, I am confused as to the motives and origins of the ghosts. It was quite a surreal scene. Maybe it will all come to light in the next book.
I don't know if it was down to the short chapters, but whilst I liked the format at first, I think that it left a lot of unanswered questions and pointless scenes. Saying that, I have to tell myself that this IS book 1 of a trilogy, and it will hopefully get unravelled in the next 2 books. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2005 : 18:16:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
[brWho were those ghosts--were they real, or a part of Phyrea's overactive imagination? Why did they encourage her to cut herself, with a special sword, no less?
I quite liked this scene and it came at the right point in the novel as i'd found it in quite a lull prior to this point. But, like you, I am confused as to the motives and origins of the ghosts. It was quite a surreal scene. Maybe it will all come to light in the next book.
I certainly hope so. I don't get it--if those ghosts are her dead family members, then why would they want her to hurt herself? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2005 : 01:46:19
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I finally finshed up this book, and have a few thoughts on it.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that was wondering if Ivar really did visit Phyrea . . . with all of her visions and voices and the like at the end of the book, it became increasingly hard to figure out what was going on with her, though I really do think that she is psychotic, and I mean that in the clinical sense of the word.
I guess I'm the type that likes characters that know what they are and deliberately choose their destiny. I can't stand Willem. I don't think he really does feel remorse, he just knows that he should and he worries that he might be caught. Either realize that you are capable of really bad things and figure out what your limits are, if any, or try to find out why you abhor the thought. I did really like the one part of Willem's story however, when he gets his senate seat and his mother starts talking about his next political move . . . no Willem, it will never be enough to satisfy her . . .
I guess I am the only one that likes Ivar. The only thing I didn't like about him is that fact that he was so competant in combat for a man trained as an engineer. I thought it was interesting that the only time he smiles and jokes is when he is with non-humans. He is more comfortable with nagas and dwarves than with other humans. BTW . . . is this the only Realms novel that has every used the term "danglies?"
And while I'm on the subject, I really liked the dwarves' sense of humor. Its nice to see dwarves used for comedic effect without belittling them in the process. Although Vrengie was pushing it, lol.
If nothing else, I do hope people do check out this book if only to see that Athans really has some talent and style, and that even if you had issues with his older work, he seems to really be on his game here. The one thing I will say though, is that this book is a prime example of something that can irk me sometimes. Its one thing to have a larger plot moving through a trilogy, its another to not really have a separate story and to just chop a bigger book into three parts and call it a trilogy. There was no real resolution for many of the issues brought up, and yes, the canal, which is likely to be a major focus for the trilogy, didn't even start up as a plot element until the last part of the book.
On the up side, with this book really just giving us the players (what the heck is Pristoleph up to anyway . . . we hardly see him after he becomes a senator but we get some grave foreshadowing) and putting everything in motion, the trilogy should avoid the second book "placeholder" curse. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2005 : 21:33:14
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I guess I'm the type that likes characters that know what they are and deliberately choose their destiny.
Oh, believe me, I do to. I just didn't like Ivar. It's possible to be confident and choose your own path without coming across as an elitist. Ivar struck me as an elitist know-it-all.
I thought the Ring of Winter is a good example of a novel that is about choosing your own destiny yet has a likable protagonist that I cared about (Artus Cimber). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2005 : 06:16:49
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I like Ivar.His intellegence is unbelievable.I wonder what he would be like if he was a wizard???I mean the things he comes up with.Shouldn't he be worshipping Gond??I would have liked to see him in a more religious character.Not the "athiest"as Willem calls him.I also would have liked him to keep at least a little wealth.How in the Nine Hells did Cormyr let him slip away?!?!?!I did find it ironic that he built a ship for Azoun while in Innarlith.Though we do know the ending of that.He would have been a great asset to The Crown,and been made very very wealthy too.Hopefully Phil will let us in on his background,and why he really left Cormyr.The book kind of picks up with them leaving Cormyr.Also I like him being able to defend himself.Actualy kick a little behind to be honest.I'd rather have do his own fighting than some others doing it for him.I think it adds to his confidence.Which is actually more like egotistical...
Anyways I liked the book.It was a good read.A good first book.Not much in the way of fighting.Though there is some good stealthy violence.Not some grand magical battles.When Thadat was murdered was a gruesome scene.I liked that part.There was poisonings.Great stuff!!There is a lot of players right now.A few of them are not going to make it to the end.Phil did a great job.I can't wait for Lies of Light.
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LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2005 : 06:34:15
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I get the strange feeling that there really isn't anyone in this book heading for a happy ending. Remember, the engineers were in Marsember, not a city known for its loyalty to the Crown to begin with, and Ivar wasn't the shameless self promoter that Willem was. I think the only thing to his leaving Marsember was that someone gave him a challenge, so he went where he could address the problem presented to him. In some ways Ivar is a very simple person to read, just difficult to empathize with at times.
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2005 : 10:09:42
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Ya know, the more i'm reading all your posts, the more i'm looking back at the novel and really appreciating it. I must have been in the wrong frame of mind when I first read it. I'll have to read it again just before the second book comes out so I can refresh myself... it is quite complex after all 
Thanks all |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2005 : 20:30:26
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quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
I like Ivar.His intellegence is unbelievable.I wonder what he would be like if he was a wizard???I mean the things he comes up with.Shouldn't he be worshipping Gond??I would have liked to see him in a more religious character.Not the "athiest"as Willem calls him.
I disagree. I find non-religious characters (atheists or no) to be very refreshing in a genre where just about everyone is not only religious, but also not usually the least bit skeptical about what religious truths they are taught. Ivar's beliefs, in this area, are not disimilar to my own. But just because I agree with him about some things doesn't mean I'm going to like him. It's not really his beliefs that bother me, it's his attitude.
quote:
I also would have liked him to keep at least a little wealth.How in the Nine Hells did Cormyr let him slip away?!?!?!I did find it ironic that he built a ship for Azoun while in Innarlith.Though we do know the ending of that.He would have been a great asset to The Crown,and been made very very wealthy too.Hopefully Phil will let us in on his background,and why he really left Cormyr.The book kind of picks up with them leaving Cormyr.
As KnightErrant mentioned, Ivar just doesn't really care at all about being anyone's servant. Ivar is his own servant. He left Marsember because he was, as always, looking for something new and challenging to do. With Ivar, it's all about what he wants, not what some king or government wants him to do.
Still, I don't think all of Ivar's ideas are the novelties he'd like to think they are. The little promo that calls Ivar's dream of a 40-50 mile long canal "the greatest dream Faerun has ever known" is beyond ridiculous. Really? Greater than the dream of Myth Drannor. 
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2005 : 01:13:33
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| While it may indeed not be the greatest dream Faerun has ever known, you have to admit that Ivar wants to accomplish it essentially without trusting magic. He has a dream of accomplishing something great and lasting without the Art, which is a bit novel in Faerun. But yeah . . . overplayed in the blurb. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2005 : 03:19:06
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| Good point, Knight, but is this going to be the first canal ever built on Faerun? I would find that hard to believe if it were so. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ignorance Personified
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2005 : 05:14:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I disagree. I find non-religious characters (atheists or no) to be very refreshing in a genre where just about everyone is not only religious, but also not usually the least bit skeptical about what religious truths they are taught. Ivar's beliefs, in this area, are not disimilar to my own. But just because I agree with him about some things doesn't mean I'm going to like him. It's not really his beliefs that bother me, it's his attitude.
While atheism is certainly a reasonable view to hold in the "real world," it seems that holding this view in a world where gods frequently visit the planet (destroying a few cities in recent years no less) is not in accordance with reason.
For example, if Juppiter/Zeus came down from Mt. Olympos and began casting lighting at people... I would almost certainly believe in the Roman Pantheon of Gods despite my feelings before the incident.
Of course, Ivar did not physically see any gods in his lifetime (I am guessing), but it still does not seem logical for him to be an athiest as he would have lived thorugh The Time of Troubles or at least heard first hand accounts of what occured from many different people.
quote:
Originally Posted By: VEDISCA
I like Ivar. His intellegence is unbelievable.
Well...Ivar's belief in his own wisdom is unbelieveable. |
Carthago delenda est. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2005 : 05:40:22
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I'm going to play devil's advocate on this one. Sure, in our modern world, seeing Thor show up and knock down a sky scrapper might make you ponder a bit . . . but in a world where there are powerful wizards that can rain down meteor swarms and giants and dragons running around in the wilds, and ceatures like beholders and phaerimm in existance . . . while you may know, for example, that a powerful being calling itself Bane exists, you may not beileive that he is anything more that a really powerful outsider, an overblown fiend, not worthy of any particular worship nor in control of any aspect of your destiny. He exists, in your mind, but you may not think that he is divine, in the classical sense.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2005 : 18:10:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Ignorance Personified
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I disagree. I find non-religious characters (atheists or no) to be very refreshing in a genre where just about everyone is not only religious, but also not usually the least bit skeptical about what religious truths they are taught. Ivar's beliefs, in this area, are not disimilar to my own. But just because I agree with him about some things doesn't mean I'm going to like him. It's not really his beliefs that bother me, it's his attitude.
While atheism is certainly a reasonable view to hold in the "real world," it seems that holding this view in a world where gods frequently visit the planet (destroying a few cities in recent years no less) is not in accordance with reason.
For example, if Juppiter/Zeus came down from Mt. Olympos and began casting lighting at people... I would almost certainly believe in the Roman Pantheon of Gods despite my feelings before the incident.
Of course, Ivar did not physically see any gods in his lifetime (I am guessing), but it still does not seem logical for him to be an athiest as he would have lived thorugh The Time of Troubles or at least heard first hand accounts of what occured from many different people.
Well, I think of Realms "atheism" as a bit different than real-world atheism. Ivar specifically says he pays as much attention to the gods as they pay to him, which I guess to some would be a reasonable and believable sentiment. As far as he is concerned, the gods don't pay much mind to him, so he doesn't care much about sending them prayers or worshiping them. I see your points, though. Like you I'm assuming that Ivar has never actually seen a deity, and "first-hand accounts" can still be considered second-hand knowledge, and hearsay. That would be a deity interfering with someone else's life, not his.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 11 Dec 2005 18:10:57 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2005 : 18:13:38
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I'm going to play devil's advocate on this one. Sure, in our modern world, seeing Thor show up and knock down a sky scrapper might make you ponder a bit . . . but in a world where there are powerful wizards that can rain down meteor swarms and giants and dragons running around in the wilds, and ceatures like beholders and phaerimm in existance . . . while you may know, for example, that a powerful being calling itself Bane exists, you may not beileive that he is anything more that a really powerful outsider, an overblown fiend, not worthy of any particular worship nor in control of any aspect of your destiny. He exists, in your mind, but you may not think that he is divine, in the classical sense.
And even if you know a being is a god, that does not necessarily compell you to worship that being. What if the being that was a god also turned out to be a fiend and a madman? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ignorance Personified
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2005 : 19:56:35
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quote:
What if the being that was a god also turned out to be a fiend and a madman?
Is that a reference to Cyric?
quote:
...while you may know, for example, that a powerful being calling itself Bane exists, you may not beileive that he is anything more that a really powerful outsider, an overblown fiend, not worthy of any particular worship nor in control of any aspect of your destiny. He exists, in your mind, but you may not think that he is divine, in the classical sense.
Divine in the classical sense?
According to The Iliad, the Greek/Roman gods (not even Zues) had any control over destiny itself--altough this is some debate among scholars over wither destiny had any control over Zeus.
quote:
[...]"first-hand accounts" can still be considered second-hand knowledge, and hearsay. That would be a deity interfering with someone else's life, not his.
Indeed, but their would be a vast number of first hand accounts throughout the realms dealing with the intervention of divine beings. Not only resulting from the Time of Troubles, but also divine magic. Yes, it could be contributed to some other source--i.e. naturally occuring, but wouldn't a rational person consider why no wizard has ever proven this or why every single religious group in the realms claims this (one would think that if this were the case at least one of the "dying" religious groups would make an outcry against it or someone who has been outcast from a particular religion).
While a reasonable individual in the realms may not worship one particular god (i.e. Bane) because they view his as inherently evil or worshiping the being would go against their "life goals," I still do not see how a wise person can completely ignore the god's influence in the reals.
In conclusion, such as view (especially without the author providing concrete reasons for the belief) seems ignorant(something I am quite familiar with).
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Carthago delenda est. |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2005 : 05:42:59
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Hey I didn't mean for this to go into a religious beliefs v.s. athiests topic.I just think that I would have liked to see Ivar worship, or at least make references to worshipping a god.It's not really that big of a thing really.
You know I also was thinking that calling a 40-50 mile canal the "Greatest dream in Faerun" was a little crazy myself.Bu then I thought.It might not be the greatest dream,but it sure in the heck is a great feat if pulled off.The water naga...Man the tome is upstairs,and I refuse to go,and get it to find her name.When she started to ask questions.Hrothgar as well.About all the players that Ivar will have to get to agree with this project.The Senate,the guilds,Thay.heck,The Water Nagas...Who is to say that he will stop there.How about one big canal to Waterdeep????I jest,but....All without the aid of magic??That would be impressive...
This tome was a of a different realms flavor.I'm really not sure if there one like it.Meaning that there was no big battle.The giant toads seemed to be a "hey look,Ivar can fight a little bit" scene.All the violence was stealth.Which isn't bad violence.I really don't know who the bad guy is.Is there really a bad guy???Marek?Pristoleph?Willem?I'm not really sure yet.Though I will say one thing.Ivar to me is a dwarf and a gnome all wrapped up in a human body.And it's kind of strange. |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 15:28:18
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| I am also surprised that Ivar is not a Gondsman. Ivar's only real God is himself, or more accurately, his intelligence and abilities. Out of all the characters, I like Ivar the most so far. I am wondering if there will be a hero in this story... There are main characters, but no heroes, I need heroes. A very good read so far and I am enjoying it. Even with the numerous plotlines I am really getting caught up in this book, funny, considering the lack of heroes so far... |
ShadowJack |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2005 : 02:20:15
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
I am also surprised that Ivar is not a Gondsman. Ivar's only real God is himself, or more accurately, his intelligence and abilities. Out of all the characters, I like Ivar the most so far. I am wondering if there will be a hero in this story... There are main characters, but no heroes, I need heroes. A very good read so far and I am enjoying it. Even with the numerous plotlines I am really getting caught up in this book, funny, considering the lack of heroes so far...
True.It does seem to lack heroes. |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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Ignorance Personified
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2005 : 17:45:00
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Forgive my ignorance, but what exacly is a "hero" or (in order to be politically correct) a "heroine"?
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Carthago delenda est. |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2005 : 15:28:55
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Most Learned Sages,
Forgive my absence, I turn my back for a moment and life snatches me away from my beloved Realms...
I.P.
To answer your question, I believe a hero is a person that acts in the best interests of others first, then himself. In the Realms, I believe Drizzt Do'Urden is a hero. Or Dorn Graycloak from the Year of Rogue Dragons series. (I do not want to launch off on a Drizzt seminar, that has been done, and done, and done...) Dorn is a good example, he tries several times to walk away and pretend it is about the money, or revenge, or whatever. he keeps going on the task to solve the problem of the Rage because it is the right thing to do (a beautiful Song Dragon doesn't hurt either...)Anyway, I am just saying that there are no heroes in Whisper of Waves, maybe as the series goes on Ivar will fill that role (I don't think so.). All that aside, the story is intriguing and I am enjoying it. I look forward to seeing where this all leads. |
ShadowJack |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2005 : 21:13:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Ignorance Personified
quote:
What if the being that was a god also turned out to be a fiend and a madman?
Is that a reference to Cyric?
Nope. Not specifically. It's a reference to any god that might be like that. Or, the fact that Ivar seems like the kind of person who wouldn't just accept that a god is "benevolent" because he is told so.
Accepting the power and existence of a god is one thing, but actually choosing to WORSHIP them is something different, and not something I think Ivar would be inclined to doing. He would not devote his life and actions to anyone but himself. And that is why I don't see why some people are so surprised that he is not a Gondsman--I don't like Ivar, but I have to admit that his personality--however unlikeable--and belief system are made pretty clear in the book. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Whisper of Waves: Part 4 (Chapters 50-72)
