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bolf66
Acolyte
USA
17 Posts |
 Posted - 16 May 2009 : 20:47:19
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no it was a seperate novel if anything for ill check on it and post when I have proper resorces
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perception is the real truth |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2009 : 09:42:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by bolf66
in my opinion if we look at sheer power bow to the simbul I personaly think that is he lived pre karsus folly and had there lack of limitation on spells she wouldn't need the avatar spell she'd be a goddess on her own right now others have mentioned it but best spellcaster as far as skill goes I'd pre demigod azuth who one on one spell battled the demi god of magic and not only wipped him but all but made him a slave that's skill
In canon, Elminster basically tells Simbul in spellfire that if she opposed him, she would have been destroyed, and The Simbul herself declared to Elminster's face that she was certain he could beat her if they fought.
Her exact words were "I have seen what your art has wrought Elminster. If ever I should have to stand against it, I expect to fall."
Elminster is more powerful than the Simbul.
in heroes lorebook it describes simbuls years of fighting the red wizards as elevating her skills to that above even elminster. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2009 : 21:15:52
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quote:
Originally posted by swifty
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by bolf66
in my opinion if we look at sheer power bow to the simbul I personaly think that is he lived pre karsus folly and had there lack of limitation on spells she wouldn't need the avatar spell she'd be a goddess on her own right now others have mentioned it but best spellcaster as far as skill goes I'd pre demigod azuth who one on one spell battled the demi god of magic and not only wipped him but all but made him a slave that's skill
In canon, Elminster basically tells Simbul in spellfire that if she opposed him, she would have been destroyed, and The Simbul herself declared to Elminster's face that she was certain he could beat her if they fought.
Her exact words were "I have seen what your art has wrought Elminster. If ever I should have to stand against it, I expect to fall."
Elminster is more powerful than the Simbul.
in heroes lorebook it describes simbuls years of fighting the red wizards as elevating her skills to that above even elminster.
It did not say that at all. It implied her power was nearing Elminsters, not greater than.
And in the much more recent epic level handbook, as well as the words of Greenwood who invented those characters, Elminster is still the kingpin after Larloch.
Elminster in the epic level handbook is Male Human (Chosen of Mystra) Fighter 1/Rogue
2/Cleric 3/Wizard 24/Archmage 5: CR 39
Simbul is listed as Female Human (Chosen of Mystra) Sorcerer 20/
Archmage 2/Wizard 10: CR 36
and it implies he is generally the best of the best.
Her multitude of years battling red wizards does not even begin to cover the countless scores of battles Elminster was involved in vs the Zhentarim, Red wizards, and thousands of other mages before she was even born. He helped rear most of the seven sisters. |
Edited by - Firestorm on 20 May 2009 21:16:39 |
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Eye of Horus-Re
Acolyte
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2009 : 18:25:21
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| Elminster, hands down. He would beat them all with cantrips and 1st level spells! He is that clever (his greatest strength). |
Long live 1384 and that which came before....!!! |
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Iolaum 13
Acolyte
Greece
3 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 13:49:34
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| I voted Karsus but i think Iolaum had a place in the poll too |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2009 : 19:42:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by bolf66
in my opinion if we look at sheer power bow to the simbul I personaly think that is he lived pre karsus folly and had there lack of limitation on spells she wouldn't need the avatar spell she'd be a goddess on her own right now others have mentioned it but best spellcaster as far as skill goes I'd pre demigod azuth who one on one spell battled the demi god of magic and not only wipped him but all but made him a slave that's skill
erm.why does it say in my 1996 edition of heroes lorebook "the simbul is a wild and unpredictable foe in spell battle.decades of duelling the arrogant red wizards of thay have elevated her skill in this area to heights unreached even by elminster."there words not mine.she is also classed as 30th level mage whilst elminster is 29th level.i dont neccessarily agree with it but this was canon.
In canon, Elminster basically tells Simbul in spellfire that if she opposed him, she would have been destroyed, and The Simbul herself declared to Elminster's face that she was certain he could beat her if they fought.
Her exact words were "I have seen what your art has wrought Elminster. If ever I should have to stand against it, I expect to fall."
Elminster is more powerful than the Simbul.
in heroes lorebook it describes simbuls years of fighting the red wizards as elevating her skills to that above even elminster.
It did not say that at all. It implied her power was nearing Elminsters, not greater than.
And in the much more recent epic level handbook, as well as the words of Greenwood who invented those characters, Elminster is still the kingpin after Larloch.
Elminster in the epic level handbook is Male Human (Chosen of Mystra) Fighter 1/Rogue
2/Cleric 3/Wizard 24/Archmage 5: CR 39
Simbul is listed as Female Human (Chosen of Mystra) Sorcerer 20/
Archmage 2/Wizard 10: CR 36
and it implies he is generally the best of the best.
Her multitude of years battling red wizards does not even begin to cover the countless scores of battles Elminster was involved in vs the Zhentarim, Red wizards, and thousands of other mages before she was even born. He helped rear most of the seven sisters.
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go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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Lord Necro
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2009 : 13:11:58
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| I voted for Telamont because out of all the people on the list he probably has the most actual power. (plus he's an ancient netherese shade...) |
"Time? time has no meaning to the dead..." ~ Necro Lazerus, Male Moon Elven Shade/Lich.
"Life is but a cloak we wear fleetingly.." ~ Etrius Lazerus, Male Moon Elven Shade. |
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LordManshoon
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2009 : 22:05:51
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| I voted for myself, because while most other people might not want to accept the truth, let's face it. I'm simply the greatest. |
Mastering myriad magics since Ed was young |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2009 : 14:36:17
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Right!
 |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2009 : 09:19:33
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| All things considered, I've gotta say it's either Ioulaum or Karsus, especially considering the fact that they're that powerful without the aid of Mystra/yl, though one must wonder how strong El would be if he had access to the Nether scrolls... |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2009 : 14:08:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
All things considered, I've gotta say it's either Ioulaum or Karsus
If you break it down to these two it would be Ioulaum, he is much older than Karsus and was the mightiest netherese Archmage long before Karsus was born.
Karsus was very giftet with magic too but he had the mind of a child which never heard a 'no' in his whole life and mostly the people in his enclave thought him godlike but in other enclaves it was diffrent. He was definitly one of the mightiest netherese archmages but not THE mightiest.
A good example for this is when the city of Karsus and Ioulaum declar war on each other out of boredom and htey think it would be some fun. Although Ioulaum disappered at the begining of the war (because of the phaerim life draining magic as we know now) it doesn't run well for Karsus and his enclave and than it ends with him trying to achive godhood.
I for myself can't understand all the hype around him after I read Dangerous Games |
Edited by - _Jarlaxle_ on 19 Nov 2009 14:09:42 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2009 : 22:13:24
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Elminster has great power considering that he has the greatest grace of mystra and spells and power only given to him. That said one must think of the fact that Larloch is completely immune to all magic and psyonics. Being about 2000 years old, and having spent most of his time searching and studying magic one must simply rialise the truth... Larloch can not be killed by any spellcaster!!!!! He is cunning, fast, desicive wise and ever leaning the secrets of the weave. Enough said.
Karsus well powerful yes, talented yes, but great... hmm He did cast Avartar with good intentions but it was not a well though through spell. It worked all to well!
Ioulaum... Creator of the Mythallars, power boyond all other Netheril mages, a master of psyonics. He is now an undead elder brain, which is CR 28 and then ad 41 levels of spellcating... That to me summes things up nicely.
The Shrinhee... Old, extremely wise, and deep in the knowledge of the art. And one of only a few existing today who have studyed the Nether Scrolls the longest after transformed into the golden beach tree. Power to pass out of all knowledge for 700 years and then appear at the right place and time.
So to sume op things...
1st. place: Larloch
2nd. place: Shrinshee
3ed. place: Elminster
4th. place: Karsus
I have chosen this order because I feel that these 4 masters of the Art are the best example of a mix of wisdom, inteligence, and sheer power. The winner is Larloch thou.
The Terraseer, Telemont, Halaster, Simbul and so on did not make the list. Why... well I dont think that they are as powerful, wise or inteligent as the before mentioned. They would however be on the list if the list was longer.
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 16:14:58
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Larloch is not imune to all magic and I got the impression that he is frightend about the choose of mystra because of their spellfire. There is a short (and a bit confusing) story from Ed Greenwood where Larlochs lichs attack some outer planar space when he gets them some free time and Elminster and some other guys go there to defend it.
At the end Larloch appears in front of the drained heros and appologiezes for his liches. After that I think its Storm who shows him her spellfire to do him a favor. He watches it closely but is afraid to touch it because it could destroy him. |
Edited by - _Jarlaxle_ on 22 Nov 2009 16:15:39 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 16:56:06
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| As far as I remember... It is in "Tears so White" And yes he carefully looks at it, but i dont think he ia afraid. Further more, silverfire is "perhaps" the only magic that can harm him. |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2009 : 17:58:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
As far as I remember... It is in "Tears so White" And yes he carefully looks at it, but i dont think he ia afraid. Further more, silverfire is "perhaps" the only magic that can harm him.
I wonder if Spellfire could also accomplish this... |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2009 : 00:31:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Elminster has great power considering that he has the greatest grace of mystra and spells and power only given to him. That said one must think of the fact that Larloch is completely immune to all magic and psyonics. Being about 2000 years old, and having spent most of his time searching and studying magic one must simply rialise the truth... Larloch can not be killed by any spellcaster!!!!! He is cunning, fast, desicive wise and ever leaning the secrets of the weave. Enough said.
Karsus well powerful yes, talented yes, but great... hmm He did cast Avartar with good intentions but it was not a well though through spell. It worked all to well!
Ioulaum... Creator of the Mythallars, power boyond all other Netheril mages, a master of psyonics. He is now an undead elder brain, which is CR 28 and then ad 41 levels of spellcating... That to me summes things up nicely.
The Shrinhee... Old, extremely wise, and deep in the knowledge of the art. And one of only a few existing today who have studyed the Nether Scrolls the longest after transformed into the golden beach tree. Power to pass out of all knowledge for 700 years and then appear at the right place and time.
So to sume op things...
1st. place: Larloch
2nd. place: Shrinshee
3ed. place: Elminster
4th. place: Karsus
I have chosen this order because I feel that these 4 masters of the Art are the best example of a mix of wisdom, inteligence, and sheer power. The winner is Larloch thou.
The Terraseer, Telemont, Halaster, Simbul and so on did not make the list. Why... well I dont think that they are as powerful, wise or inteligent as the before mentioned. They would however be on the list if the list was longer.
Don't know much about Larloch, but I definitely agree with the other three. The Srinshee would be tops on my list, because of the notes Ed put into "The annotated Elminster". It gave some stats on her- 46th lvl?! Plus Chosen status, and High Magic. She ended up with something like a lvl 59 or 60 stats. That's POWER.... And this was even when she was teaching El. No telling what she is now. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2009 : 12:44:45
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| has ioulaum ever been mentioned even briefly in any realms novel?and how often has larlochs name cropped up? |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2009 : 01:57:15
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quote:
Originally posted by swifty
has ioulaum ever been mentioned even briefly in any realms novel?and how often has larlochs name cropped up?
Larloch appears in Ed's short story in Realms of the Elves, entitled "Tears So White."
Ioulaum, as far as I know, doesn't appear in any novels or short stories. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2009 : 04:39:40
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| What about the Bane touched Szass Tam? |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2009 : 05:27:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
has ioulaum ever been mentioned even briefly in any realms novel?and how often has larlochs name cropped up?
Larloch appears in Ed's short story in Realms of the Elves, entitled "Tears So White."
Ioulaum, as far as I know, doesn't appear in any novels or short stories.
That story is a bit deceptive because it gives you the feeling that Larloch would be helpless against Silver fire, and the chosen are sure they could take him, yet Ed, on this forum, has said that Larloch was just trying to lull them into knowing he was not there to fight them, and that they really could not do much to him other than inconvenience him. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2010 : 20:13:38
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Larloch is not imune to all magic and I got the impression that he is frightend about the choose of mystra because of their spellfire. There is a short (and a bit confusing) story from Ed Greenwood where Larlochs lichs attack some outer planar space when he gets them some free time and Elminster and some other guys go there to defend it.
At the end Larloch appears in front of the drained heros and appologiezes for his liches. After that I think its Storm who shows him her spellfire to do him a favor. He watches it closely but is afraid to touch it because it could destroy him.
I do not think he's afraid. His desire to not meddle with the Chosen's affair has something to do with Mystra, whom he maintains a good relationship with. He even receives special favors from her.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2010 : 20:21:11
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I voted for Telamont Tanthul. He's cunning, knows his limit and implements his plan in context. Had Old Netheril survived, he would have just been second to Karsus, but i still prefer him. Next to my list are:
2nd: Elminster
3rd: Karsus
4th: Szass Tam
5th: Gromph Baenre
Since I am partial to Netheril, I would have voted for Ioulaum, too, but I do not know much about him save the few things in the Netheril Trilogy. Did he appear in other books?
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2010 : 05:38:44
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| I like Elminster, but I believe if Halaster was not crazy he would be the most dangerous creature in the realms, not considering the fact he IS dangerous enough. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2010 : 06:21:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
I like Elminster, but I believe if Halaster was not crazy he would be the most dangerous creature in the realms, not considering the fact he IS dangerous enough.
A sane Halaster is a frightening prospect indeed. What's scarier though, is what Ed, Eric or Steven can *do* with a SANE Halaster!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2010 : 06:20:33
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| Well, the truth is I like more the Mordenkainen. There is a mystery of his status no one can uncover. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2010 : 07:20:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
I like Elminster, but I believe if Halaster was not crazy he would be the most dangerous creature in the realms, not considering the fact he IS dangerous enough.
A sane Halaster is a frightening prospect indeed. What's scarier though, is what Ed, Eric or Steven can *do* with a SANE Halaster!
hehe indeed sir. But one would have to take Vhostym into account as well. He evidently is thousands of years old and the man pulled down a tear! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 04:45:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Necro
I voted for Telamont because out of all the people on the list he probably has the most actual power. (plus he's an ancient netherese shade...)
I also voted for Telamont. I consider his age (far older than El). With his thousands of years of existence, he must have discovered innumerable intricacies of shadow magic and thereby augmented his strength. Had Karsus been alive, well, I would have voted for him. Besides, Telamont used to be "under" Karsus (a student, at that).
Anyway, let us also consider Telamont's exploits in the Return of the Archwizards... Telamont, albeit with the aid of his sons, managed to save his city despite the joined forces of the 5 Chosen.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 17:11:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Elminster has great power considering that he has the greatest grace of mystra and spells and power only given to him. That said one must think of the fact that Larloch is completely immune to all magic and psyonics. Being about 2000 years old, and having spent most of his time searching and studying magic one must simply rialise the truth... Larloch can not be killed by any spellcaster!!!!! He is cunning, fast, desicive wise and ever leaning the secrets of the weave. Enough said.
Karsus well powerful yes, talented yes, but great... hmm He did cast Avartar with good intentions but it was not a well though through spell. It worked all to well!
Ioulaum... Creator of the Mythallars, power boyond all other Netheril mages, a master of psyonics. He is now an undead elder brain, which is CR 28 and then ad 41 levels of spellcating... That to me summes things up nicely.
The Shrinhee... Old, extremely wise, and deep in the knowledge of the art. And one of only a few existing today who have studyed the Nether Scrolls the longest after transformed into the golden beach tree. Power to pass out of all knowledge for 700 years and then appear at the right place and time.
So to sume op things...
1st. place: Larloch
2nd. place: Shrinshee
3ed. place: Elminster
4th. place: Karsus
I have chosen this order because I feel that these 4 masters of the Art are the best example of a mix of wisdom, inteligence, and sheer power. The winner is Larloch thou.
The Terraseer, Telemont, Halaster, Simbul and so on did not make the list. Why... well I dont think that they are as powerful, wise or inteligent as the before mentioned. They would however be on the list if the list was longer.
Don't know much about Larloch, but I definitely agree with the other three. The Srinshee would be tops on my list, because of the notes Ed put into "The annotated Elminster". It gave some stats on her- 46th lvl?! Plus Chosen status, and High Magic. She ended up with something like a lvl 59 or 60 stats. That's POWER.... And this was even when she was teaching El. No telling what she is now.
The annotated Elminster" where and how do I get to reading that? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 17:15:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
The annotated Elminster" where and how do I get to reading that?
Most bookstores might still carry a few copies. You can try online, I suppose.
Alternatively, both nobleknight.com and eBay tend to have second-hand copies at reasonable prices popping up every so often. I'd keep an eye out on both those sites also. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 17:21:13
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| nice info sage, as allways. Is it a novel or book of facts. I have never heard of it before! |
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Topic |
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Who is the best spellcaster in the realms
