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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 09:56:06
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Topic idea spawned by warlockco's thread...
Where did Thorass come from??... FRCS has a delightful little comment on it of "a scribe who's name is lost to history"... Ok, fine we don't know the exact person who came up with Thorass, how about we narrow it down to the culture or civilization... My first guess would be Jhaamdath, but that's just a wild guess... Anybody else know any better?
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6688 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 11:35:42
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I think your 'wild guess' is pretty much spot on. Jhaamdath would be my pick for the origin of Thorass.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 14:17:33
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I think your 'wild guess' is pretty much spot on. Jhaamdath would be my pick for the origin of Thorass.
-- George Krashos
I'd agree with that. Or at the very least, some ancient and forgotten southern nation of the Realms -- after all, there's been a few  .
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 20:00:54
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Hi,
According to Races of Faerūn, page 82 and 86, Alzhedo and Jhaamdathan are the two major root tongues of Thorass.
/Webmanus |
Link to my homepage: http://user.tninet.se/~bsu242v/ |
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 20:48:16
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Well that makes things a bit weirder... BOTH are root tongues of Thorass?... So given there was an amalgamation of Jhaamdath and Calimshan cultures, the most likely place for that to be would be the Lake of Steam.. But I don't recall there being any culture of note (not including beholders) that has ever arisen out of that area. Is there one??... One would guess that languages would arise and spread via the mingling of cultures and trade... But the place where the mingling occurrs doesn't seem to have created any cultures that would influence others on a scale that Thorass would become a major language in ancient times... Doesn't make a heck of alot of sense... But then again, trying to apply hard logic to a fantasy game that has been built in a rather haphazard manner over the past few decades probably doesn't make alot of sense either...
Ideas? Anyone? |
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 20:50:32
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Yes, I have an idea ... this one:
"then again, trying to apply hard logic to a fantasy game that has been built in a rather haphazard manner over the past few decades probably doesn't make alot of sense either..."
He he he ... I just like what you wrote. ... Still, I will add some additional comments ... Wait a minute or two. |
Link to my homepage: http://user.tninet.se/~bsu242v/ |
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 20:58:55
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| Sorry ... did not find much more. I remember though, after reading Races of Faerūn, that I started to think where Thorass could have been used, and so on ... |
Link to my homepage: http://user.tninet.se/~bsu242v/ |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 21:36:03
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I know! It came from Ed Greenwood in Canada!  |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 22:21:21
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Thanks Melfius...  ... 'Course that IS the absolutely correct answer.
So given that there is no actual explanation for Thorass, can anybody whip up a creative solution?.. I was kinda thinking something along the lines of making it a faux-Latin and saying it was the church language of Tyr and the Triad since that started up and spread about right about the time Jhaamdath disappeared... |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 23:32:15
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Ahhh, as it happens, I can help a little here.
Yes, Ed invented Thorass, and although our characters weren't THAT interested in matters linguistic, we did talk to several sages (including Mellomir, as I recall) about the origins of several tongues. Thorass began, according to HIM (Ed roleplaying him, of course), "for trade purposes, as merchants moved back and forth between the Tashalar and other Shining Sea coastal areas, and the Vilhon, via the Lake of Steam region (specifically, what is now the Border Kingdoms), and needed commonly-intelligible written records." TSR's avoidance of the BK in print has led a lot of Realms fans and users to overlook the area down the years, but it's a vitally important crossroads, and always has been (it's where outlaws have fled to for centuries, from the Calishite struggles right up until yestereve).
love,
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 12 Sep 2005 23:37:30 |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 23:34:25
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See! I told you it was Ed!
Thank ye, Lady Hooded! |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
Edited by - Melfius on 12 Sep 2005 23:34:56 |
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 23:57:57
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Thanks Hooded One!... That helps immensely...
Hmm... How distinctly odd... I could have sworn I had typed a few more rambling sentences in my last post... I must have been mistaken, I couldn't possibly have been censo- *mmphh!!*
EDIT - Was there a specific reason that the Border Kingdoms were overlooked previously??.. |
Edited by - El Magnifico Uno on 13 Sep 2005 00:08:33 |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2005 : 03:45:53
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quote:
Originally posted by El Magnifico Uno
Thanks Hooded One!... That helps immensely...
Hmm... How distinctly odd... I could have sworn I had typed a few more rambling sentences in my last post... I must have been mistaken, I couldn't possibly have been censo- *mmphh!!*
EDIT - Was there a specific reason that the Border Kingdoms were overlooked previously??..
Maybe because they were too evil?
TSR tried to make alot of things bright and shiny, hence all the incompetent villians of the time. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2005 : 03:49:43
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| 'Tis my understanding that the Border Kingdoms were receiving coverage, in Polyhedron. I believe that there were plans to collate all of that stuff in a sourcebook, but such plans wound up falling thru. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2005 : 04:47:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
'Tis my understanding that the Border Kingdoms were receiving coverage, in Polyhedron.
The entire series ran from issue #109 to issue #148. The Polyhedron issues with the Border Kingdom articles are 109111, 115121, 123148.
Unfortunately though... the alphabetical detailing of the cities and kingdoms finished at "O".
quote:
I believe that there were plans to collate all of that stuff in a sourcebook, but such plans wound up falling thru.
'Tis true.
Ed, many years ago during the old TSR days, suggested that we might see a "Border Kingdoms" sourcebook which would collect and collate all the articles while adding a bit more stuff, done by some junior staffer/designer, about 6-12 months after the column had run its course. Unfortunately, this never came to pass...  .
There'll be some focus on the Border Kingdoms in the Power of Faerun tome due for release early next year.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Thorass Language
