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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 13:43:46
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Hello and Well Met!
I am new to this site and to posting here. Please let me know if I should have put this in a better place... I was perusing the list of prestige classes and saw a Thayan Gladiator! I have been kicking around the idea of a gladiator character for a while, would this be a good template to use? What book is CoR? Thanks all!
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ShadowJack |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 14:20:41
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Welcome to Candlekeep! 
Feel free to ask any questions you may have... A lot of us have been Realms fans for years, and we know a thing or three about the setting. Plus, we've got some of the authors and creators here! 
As for the rest of us, we are friendly, mostly harmless, and occasionally strange... Enjoy your stay! 
CoR is Champions of Ruin. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 16:03:19
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Thayan Gladiator is a little bit over the top for a normal gladiator. You may want to check out the Sword and Fist book or, I think Complete Warrior? The gladiator in the Sword and Fist book is pretty much the straight up Russell Crowe Gladiator.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 14:06:37
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| Thanks to Wooly Rupert and Crennen for the warm welcome. I have been involved with the Realms since the first books and campaign setting came out. I used to think I knew volumes about the Realms until i started reading these forums! Thanks! |
ShadowJack |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 14:10:27
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Forgot to ask my question...
Crennen, Is Sword and Fist an updated product for 3.5, or is it 3.0? If it is 3.0 does that make much difference? What do you have againist the Fey, anyway? No offense, just curious... |
ShadowJack |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 14:56:52
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Forgot to ask my question...
Crennen, Is Sword and Fist an updated product for 3.5, or is it 3.0? If it is 3.0 does that make much difference? What do you have againist the Fey, anyway? No offense, just curious...
Sword & First is a 3.0E product, however, if you have a decent amount of knowledge about 3.5E, you can usually make adjustments, or get with you DM to check the PrC for balance. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 15:27:57
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| I believe that Complete Warrior updated a lot of the Sword & Fist stuff, including some of the PrCs. But don't quote me on that. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 17:50:52
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It does have pretty decent updates, but I am not sure if Gladiator made it to 3.5E. A lot of the stuff that was located in those sourcebooks is easily converted over - so much so that Complete Warrior has a lot of just reprints.
The gladiator class has some pretty neat features overall. The reason I wouldn't use a Thayan gladiator is that it would be hard to take that character out of Thay - well, alive, at least.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2005 : 01:40:39
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| I find the Thayan Gladiator to be a bit overpowered. It's good if you are a PC since your natural weapons because insanely dangerous at level 10. As a GM, it seems kinda munchkin to me... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2005 : 03:59:03
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
The gladiator class has some pretty neat features overall. The reason I wouldn't use a Thayan gladiator is that it would be hard to take that character out of Thay - well, alive, at least.
C-Fb
That PrC was one I complained about... I don't think it would take too much effort to remove the Thayan flavor from the PrC. As I pointed out elsewhere, there are other cities with arenas dedicated to bloodsport, and the PrC could easily be used in any of them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2005 : 04:04:38
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| Until Champions of Ruin I had always associated Gladiators with Hillsfar and Westgate far more than with Thay. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2005 : 05:31:28
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Until Champions of Ruin I had always associated Gladiators with Hillsfar and Westgate far more than with Thay.
I figure you'd also find them in Zhentil Keep, and places controlled by or loyal to them.
And there's also the Arena of Blood in Manshaka, where Vajra once fought. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2005 : 05:35:06
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You know, its funny . . . I can easily picture a lot of "southern" nations having gladitorial arenas, but for some reason they didn't seem "notable." In other words, a gladitorial arena in the North stands out as an oddity, but in the south, it just seems like something any decadant noble might enjoy.
Although for some reason I picture Zhentil Keep having smaller "fighting pits" than grand arenas, but I would have to recheck my Zhent info to see if I am just imagining things . . . |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2005 : 05:45:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I figure you'd also find them in Zhentil Keep, and places controlled by or loyal to them.
Indeed. In the Inner Quarter of the city, among merchant headquarters and other prominent buildings, lies the Arena.
It's a reference from the Ruins of Zhentil Keep boxed set.
quote:
In other words, a gladitorial arena in the North stands out as an oddity...
I think that would depend upon where you are in the North, and what race you are talking about.
I would imagine that "fighting pits" and gladitorial-styled combat features prominently in orcish domains -- where positions of power within a tribe are decreed by the results of such contests.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2005 : 16:25:48
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I'll have to check that out again. Last night when I was looking for it, I just looked at the map key for Ruins of Zhentil Keep, and couldn't find an arena, but I didn't do any in depth research to see if one was mentioned.
Oh, all I meant by a fighting pit was an indoor arena that has limited room. Kinda like the one from Neverwinter Nights or even the place that Wolverine fought in the X-Men movie (the first one). |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2005 : 17:13:27
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| I agree with you KnightErrant. I have always thought that Unther, Mulhorand and Thay are logical choices for Arenas. Hillsfar, of course, has always been mentioned. I also like the idea of Zhent controlled areas having small, but popular, fighting pits, for both slaves and free. The idea makes sense. I can also see these different Arenas having special contests between each other. For instance a campaign I am running has a character who was a gladiatorial slave whose owner trotted him (he is a centaur) to Thay, Unther and Hillsfar to compete for money. Does this seem plausible to you learned sages? By the way, who is Najra? Was she from the comic books? |
ShadowJack |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2005 : 17:19:19
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| Vajra was indeed from the comics, although I beleive she is also in Lands of Intruigue as well, though I don't have it handy to check. I had once had a thought about someone as a slave in Hillsfar being sent to Westgate to "tour the circut" and make some more money, though I must admit part of that probably popped into my mind due to the movie Gladiator. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2005 : 17:47:18
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Vajra was indeed from the comics, although I beleive she is also in Lands of Intruigue as well, though I don't have it handy to check.
Yup. Vajra Valmeyjar, Timoth Eyesbright, and Onyx the Invincible were all first introduced in the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons comic. Steven Schend later used them in Tethyr. Vajra is now a noble, and Timoth and Onyx, if I remember correctly, are both officers in the army.
The remaining character from the comic is of course the Moonstar agent and Lord of Waterdeep, Kyriani. |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2005 : 19:09:15
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| I believe I still have the comics laying around home, I will have to check them out. Also, KnightErrant, you can download Lands of intrigue from WotC website. Thanks for the info! |
ShadowJack |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 01:54:56
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I'll have to check that out again. Last night when I was looking for it, I just looked at the map key for Ruins of Zhentil Keep, and couldn't find an arena, but I didn't do any in depth research to see if one was mentioned.
The Arena's first mentioned on pg. 54.
On the map, it's feature 4 -- in the Inner Quarter.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 13:59:46
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| heh heh . . . sure I can read a map . . . guess that's why my wife drives on long trips. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 14:49:55
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I wonder why we naturally assume the more ambiguous nation-states are supposed to have arenas? I mean Silverymoon or Neverwinter could have an arena as well, just a not-to-the-death fighting one, right? And you could still use all the neat feats and PrCs, just deal damage as subdual. And of course, no slavery.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 17:16:55
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| May the Learned Sages correct me if I am wrong, but Waterdeep does have an arena where people compete without bloodshed. I first took notice of it in one of Elaine Cunninghams novels, (Dreamspheres?). Neat idea! Does this arena appear in the new sourcebook? Picking up my copy tonight! |
ShadowJack |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 17:26:28
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
I wonder why we naturally assume the more ambiguous nation-states are supposed to have arenas? I mean Silverymoon or Neverwinter could have an arena as well, just a not-to-the-death fighting one, right? And you could still use all the neat feats and PrCs, just deal damage as subdual. And of course, no slavery.
C-Fb
'Tis true... But bloodsports are more commonly associated with decadent and/or evil societies. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 20:01:09
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That's true - I think they are a needed background piece when we want our PCs to know that the city they have entered will chew them up and spit them out if they don't watch their step around town.
And, really, who's not into a little Bloodsport? Just ask Jean-Claude Van Damme!
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 20:25:14
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yes, that´s true but, anyway, I think that is a little weird the fact of an arena of non-lethal combat... this open space to... interesting dialogues:
"Well, now that I´m on the arena, I will finally fight valiantly, and spill the blood of my adversaries."
"Not exactly, boy. We´re in Silverymoon! Here the fights are not to death. Here we only Roleplay a Game, understand?" 
Chosen of Moradin |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 00:55:51
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| From what I have heard about Waterdeep's Field of Triumph, its used more for parades, assemblies, and perhaps more formal tournaments rather than just gladitorial style thumping, though obviously thats possible, especially if you keep up with Eric Boyd's Age of Worms Realms conversion. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 02:31:21
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Adding an arena to the fray in active Waterdeep allows for a great many adventures concerning the fixing of numbers, the stealing of the winnings, and all other sorts of great things that would be pretty grand on the scale...
Oh yeah, there's probably some great fighting, too. With the fame of Waterdeep, and the fame you could gain by winning there. It would be a draw for a great many warriors - especially if you don't die when you lose.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 13:37:28
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| The idea of non-lethal combat in many well-organized and good societies is not that hard to believe. After all, what is boxing? Kick Fighting? Ultimate fighter? Football? All of these sports have an element of violence and there is a danger of harm to the participants... The roman arena (according to a program on History Channel)actually did not have many deaths among the Gladiators! I think they said less than 90% of gladiatorial matches ended in death. Gladiators were to expensive to train and keep to waste that investment. Of course the criminals and unfortunate others were given to wild beasts and other less pleasant fates... I can easily see the arena in Waterdeep being packed everytime it was open... I do not see an arena in Silverymoon being very plausible... |
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Misericordia
Seeker
Italy
66 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 14:23:07
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Death in roman arena was not so frequent, but still a common sight. In a particular type of game, called "munera sine missione", there was no mercy for the loser, and the game ended only with the death.
In normal games the outcry iugula! (Kill him!), if not the rule, was frequent.
To make sure the loser wasn't pretending to be dead, an attendant dressed as Mercury would touch him with his hot iron wand. Another attendant, dressed as Charon, would hit him with a mallet. |
Omnia sunt communia. |
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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2005 : 20:33:32
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Yes if I may recall, to deal with any blood lust a gladiator might have after killing, if he won the fight without killing his opponent he would be given a christian to slaughter (correct me if I'm wrong, however).
And as far as combat without death in good societies is concerned, am I the only one who thinks Dwarves would make insanely good rugby players? They're stocking, short (can't get to the legs), and have a 'bear it all till the end' type of mentality. Of course, if Thimbledorf Pwent were to play, one would have to gently remind him NOT to bring his spiked armor.
Hhmm, gutbusters playing rugby. |
"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
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Thayan Gladiator? CoR?
