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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Feb 2003 : 16:04:12
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Okay, I have read MOST of the canon on moonwells, but I still don't quite understand what happened to them...
Are there any left?
Were they just simply a manifestation of Chauntea's more primal form?
Does Bane still have control of one of them?
Aren't they all in the Moonshea Isles?
HELP!
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My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2003 : 16:38:33
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I'm not 100% familiar with these moonwells, but wasn't it Bhaal corrupting them?
They seem to be limited to the Moonshae Islands, I haven't heard them mentioned anywhere else. Matter of fact, I would have expected some mentioning in the new 3e products like Magic of Faerun or Faiths & Pantheons, though I haven't seen it... |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2003 : 19:22:56
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Indeed, I misspoke...it was Bhaal who overtook the moonwell...although I have NO idea about the others as there is no information about them in the FR handbook nor the F&P stuff....if perhaps someone could give me some info on them from some 2nd ed material, we may be able to get a better handle on them...
Thanks....... |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2003 : 21:30:10
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I looked in some books,and even if i didn't find it written, i think moonwells are only in Moonshae Islands. And even if it very close to Chauntea, It's a manifestation of the EarthMother
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2003 : 08:23:19
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| I don't have the product at hand (grrr...) but there is more info about the moonwells,Chauntea and Bhaal in the Moonshae accessory (2nd ed.) If someone on the forum doesn have this at hand, maybe he/she can help Arion out? |
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Targon Moonrise
Learned Scribe
163 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2003 : 22:23:18
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| I read the whole Moonshae Island Trilogy and I think there were only one or two Moonwells. Bhaal did corupt one but it was cleased. I loved that part! I think they are opnly in the Moonshae Islands. Like someelse said, there were connected to the Earthmother not Chauntea. |
May Melkor smile upon every spell you cast. |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2003 : 11:41:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Targondigeta Fendrahido
I read the whole Moonshae Island Trilogy and I think there were only one or two Moonwells. Bhaal did corupt one but it was cleased. I loved that part! I think they are opnly in the Moonshae Islands. Like someelse said, there were connected to the Earthmother not Chauntea.
Is Chaintae not the Earthmother? At least, so I use to think.
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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Zacas
Learned Scribe
USA
261 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2003 : 16:33:43
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| Depends on what you look at... the novels, to me, made it seem they were two different deities... i believe in the forgotten realms campaign somewhere it said that the Earthmother was what the Moonshaes called Chauntea... or something along those lines |
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People like you are the reason people like me are on medication. |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2008 : 19:55:43
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Fellow scribes,
quote:
Originally posted by Zacas
... i believe in the forgotten realms campaign somewhere it said that the Earthmother was what the Moonshaes called Chauntea... or something along those lines
Indeed, in Faiths & Avatars, within the Chauntea article, we can read that Earthmother is an aspect of Chauntea.
quote:
Chauntea has a special relationship with the people of the Moonshae Isles, a place which she has dedicated a portion of her being, known as Earthmother, to oversee specifically. Earthmother is a more primitive facet of Chauntea who is representative of the goddess’s nature in eons past and is much more wild and neutral in her outlook.
IMHO, just a portion of Chauntea is linked to the Moonshae. That's why I say that Earthmother WAS NOT Chauntea, but only a part of her.
If one speaks about Earthmother, you speak about the most natural part of Chauntea. But if you speak about Chauntea, you do not necessary speak about Earthmother !
please, your opinion about that ...
Thanks a lot.
tiebreaker question : Do you call her THE Earthmother or Earthmother ? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 01:00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
Indeed, in Faiths & Avatars, within the Chauntea article, we can read that Earthmother is an aspect of Chauntea.
quote:
Chauntea has a special relationship with the people of the Moonshae Isles, a place which she has dedicated a portion of her being, known as Earthmother, to oversee specifically. Earthmother is a more primitive facet of Chauntea who is representative of the goddess’s nature in eons past and is much more wild and neutral in her outlook.
IMHO, just a portion of Chauntea is linked to the Moonshae. That's why I say that Earthmother WAS NOT Chauntea, but only a part of her.
If one speaks about Earthmother, you speak about the most natural part of Chauntea. But if you speak about Chauntea, you do not necessary speak about Earthmother !
please, your opinion about that ...
Thanks a lot.
Actually, Earthmother was a completely separate deity from that of Chauntea, that is, until TSR cast a "mighty retcon" upon the six 'Moonshae' novels.
You have to take this into consideration, otherwise parts of the plot from the novels doesn't make as much sense without it -- mostly because Earthmother dies and Chauntea then assumes her position until Earthmother returns and forces Chauntea out from the druids that focused instead on Chauntea worship.
quote:
tiebreaker question : Do you call her THE Earthmother or Earthmother ?
Faiths & Avatars suggests just "Earthmother." |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 01:03:52
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I'll note also that Brian James was never actually happy with that retcon, which is why he didn't acknowledge it in his "Moonshae" article. In fact, he hinted pretty strongly that Earthmother may indeed be a fey goddess.
By not acknowledging the retcon, Brian seems to have re-established the singular Earthmother as a divine entity unto herself with regard to the Moonshaes.
Perhaps this fey Earthmother is merely "a partial aspect of the Land" [the Moonshaes] with respect to Chauntea's overall placement as THE land overall.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 01:07:52
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In the Pool of Radiance novel...is a "Pool of Radiance" similar to Earthmother's pools?
What is with all the water eh? 
Seriously though...I have read very few of the forgotten realms novels; so I'm not informed in that way about the Realms.
So the Pool of Radiance is a what? |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 01:09:08
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'll note also that Brian James was never actually happy with that retcon, which is why he didn't acknowledge it in his "Moonshae" article. In fact, he hinted pretty strongly that Earthmother may indeed be a fey goddess.
By not acknowledging the retcon, Brian seems to have re-established the singular Earthmother as a divine entity unto herself with regard to the Moonshaes.
Perhaps this fey Earthmother is merely "a partial aspect of the Land" [the Moonshaes] with respect to Chauntea's overall placement as THE land overall.
 I like that! Earthmother as a Fey!
I'm gonna use it! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 01:11:31
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Guilty as charged. 
Sage is absolutely correct. I prefer the original take on the Earthmother. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 01:21:44
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| I'm going to be a bit of a contrarian here and admit that I'm not too fond of the Earthmother and her ilk, mainly due to being part of a story arc that was used to discredit a deity I really like (Helm). |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 01:33:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
So the Pool of Radiance is a what?
A magical pool of water that was, at one time, the power source of Tyranthraxus. You might want to read the Pool of Radiance novel and the other two books -- Pools of Darkness and Pool of Twilight -- for more on those events. As well as the Heroes' and Villains' Lorebooks [the second of which is available as a free PDF download at WotC]. The Moonsea tome also has a few tidbits as well.
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Edited by - The Sage on 30 Apr 2008 01:35:02 |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 02:22:09
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Hmmm. . . if the Earthmother was "slain" (ie. her Faerunian presence killed) and she was forced back to her home Realm to heal it could certainly just be that Chauntea stepped in for a time to pick up the slack while Earthmother was gone. Fits well with the banishment of various outsiders when they're material form is slain. Though I've not bothered to learn the 3.X take on that because I'm far more satisfied with the 2E way.
I'll admit to some hefty ignorance about the whole Fey jam though. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 02:26:52
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
So the Pool of Radiance is a what?
A magical pool of water that was, at one time, the power source of Tyranthraxus. You might want to read the Pool of Radiance novel and the other two books -- Pools of Darkness and Pool of Twilight -- for more on those events. As well as the Heroes' and Villains' Lorebooks [the second of which is available as a free PDF download at WotC]. The Moonsea tome also has a few tidbits as well.
I have the Villains Lorebook...and I have the Moonsea book too. I'm just not able to "get" what the Pools original intentions were I guess...call me an idiot and teach me please.  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 02:35:30
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I had trouble making it thru Darkwalker, the last novel in the Moonshae trilogy. I own the second trilogy but, after Darkwalker, never read them.
POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR DRUIDHOLM TRILOGY
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This Earthmother *against* Chauntea event. Earthmother returns in the 2nd trilogy?
Is the 2nd trilogy better than the first?
Considering the fey nature of Murloch Vale, a fey Earthmother (if she's back) works really well.
Good idea, Brian! |
Edited by - monknwildcat on 30 Apr 2008 02:41:32 |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 03:25:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Actually, Earthmother was a completely separate deity from that of Chauntea, that is, until TSR cast a "mighty retcon" upon the six 'Moonshae' novels.
Forgive the Newbie question but what is a retcon?
Afet |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
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Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 30 Apr 2008 04:53:54 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 03:50:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Afetbinttuzani
Forgive the Newbie question but what is a retcon?
RETroactive CONtinuity. It's when they go back and change something that was previously established.
In this case, the way the Earthmother was changed from an independent deity to an aspect of Chauntea was a retcon. Originally, she was her own entity, totally separate from and independent of any other deity. Then they went back and said she'd always been a part of Chauntea. So they retroactively changed the continuity.
quote:
Originally posted by Afetbinttuzani
I understand that acronyms make communication more efficient, but perhaps someone might be willing the assemble a list of commonly used ones and place it as a permanent topic in this chat area.
Afet
Like this thread? |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 30 Apr 2008 03:53:10 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 03:55:13
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Is the 2nd trilogy better than the first?
Admittedly, I first read the first trilogy when I was like 15 or 16. It wasn't bad, but it so utterly failed to grab me that I couldn't wait to finish it so that I could read something else.
I rather enjoyed the second trilogy, though. There were a couple of elements that bugged me, but for the most part, I found it far more enjoyable than the first trilogy. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 07:16:04
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
I had trouble making it thru Darkwalker, the last novel in the Moonshae trilogy. I own the second trilogy but, after Darkwalker, never read them.
POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR DRUIDHOLM TRILOGY
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
This Earthmother *against* Chauntea event. Earthmother returns in the 2nd trilogy?
Is the 2nd trilogy better than the first?
Considering the fey nature of Murloch Vale, a fey Earthmother (if she's back) works really well.
Good idea, Brian!
The first trilogy is among my favourite realms books, so remember that when I say that the 2nd trilogy is as good. And yes, she returns.
What can be said is that the 2nd trilogy is better weaved into the Realms and seems less like an add-onthan the first one. |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 13:16:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
So the Pool of Radiance is a what?
A magical pool of water that was, at one time, the power source of Tyranthraxus. You might want to read the Pool of Radiance novel and the other two books -- Pools of Darkness and Pool of Twilight -- for more on those events. As well as the Heroes' and Villains' Lorebooks [the second of which is available as a free PDF download at WotC]. The Moonsea tome also has a few tidbits as well.
I have the Villains Lorebook...and I have the Moonsea book too. I'm just not able to "get" what the Pools original intentions were I guess...call me an idiot and teach me please.
In the original novel, Pool of Radiance, the pool was a sacred body of water to the local worshipers of Selune. This body of holy clear water was corrupted and the magical properties were never detailed in the novel. In the rpg Forgotten Realms material this bit of lore is ignored. They also ignore a little thing like the city being restored fully, protected by Tyr and has a mage school. WotC instead turned the Pool of Radiance(s) into a place where the Weave confluences and forms a magical pool with varies powers. I think Magic of Faerun gives a better definition and Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor list some powers of a corrupted pool. I think in the Realms the stories behind the Pool varies and all of them happen to be true. The Weave does pool in one spot forming a golden body of liquid and Selune does have sacred sites which are pure bodies of water in the shape of the moon, one for each phase of the moon. The one located beneath the ground in Phlan is waxingwaning crescent shape according to the map in FR Atlas.
Clear as mud eh? |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 18:20:03
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Thanks, Bakra, for explaining the pools; I also knew nothing about them.
I feel badly for Eldath, though, all these pools-of-other-goddesses, and her portfolio already rather limiting. She always gets the shaft. 
Thanks, Jorkens! If the first trilogy was not FR, I may have enjoyed it more. It did well at sticking to celtic mythology--even mainstream fantasy. Yet I read it after reading some RAS and EC and found the tone unrecognizable. I'll finish Darkwalker.
Thanks, Wooly, for the encouragement to begin Druidholm. IIRC, the cover art on the Druidholm books looked more interesting!! |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 19:16:39
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| I enjoyed both trilogies as well! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2008 : 01:16:34
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Thanks, Wooly, for the encouragement to begin Druidholm. IIRC, the cover art on the Druidholm books looked more interesting!!
So, I take it you don't put much stock in the "never judge a book by it's cover" theory? |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2008 : 02:31:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Thanks, Wooly, for the encouragement to begin Druidholm. IIRC, the cover art on the Druidholm books looked more interesting!!
So, I take it you don't put much stock in the "never judge a book by it's cover" theory?
I admit to judging books by their covers--although I make exceptions. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2008 : 03:50:40
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| Gods, if I judged books by their cover, I'd've not bought much of anything FR for the last 5 years! I do not like the current art direction... |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 02 May 2008 03:51:40 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2008 : 16:14:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Gods, if I judged books by their cover, I'd've not bought much of anything FR for the last 5 years! I do not like the current art direction...
Unfortunately it has done exactly that for me. In several cases the covers have been the straw that broke the camels back for me. Except for Ed and Blackstaff it has been years since I bought a Realms book. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2008 : 16:19:38
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Thanks, Bakra, for explaining the pools; I also knew nothing about them.
I feel badly for Eldath, though, all these pools-of-other-goddesses, and her portfolio already rather limiting. She always gets the shaft.
Thanks, Jorkens! If the first trilogy was not FR, I may have enjoyed it more. It did well at sticking to celtic mythology--even mainstream fantasy. Yet I read it after reading some RAS and EC and found the tone unrecognizable. I'll finish Darkwalker.
Thanks, Wooly, for the encouragement to begin Druidholm. IIRC, the cover art on the Druidholm books looked more interesting!!
I read one Pool book and I remember it in the same way as I do One Around the Realms.
The problem for me is the opposite. As I read the Moonshae books and a few of the early Harper books and Spellfire early on these were the books that influenced the tone of "my" Realms the most. I still end up with a more primitive Dark age feel in my home games. |
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Moonwells
