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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
 Posted - 07 May 2008 : 17:58:09
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Jorkens, you're right about the feel of some of the earlier novels. I enjoyed the earlier Harpers. Nice stand-alone novels.
The Parched Sea definitely had a lower-magic feel. Soldiers of Ice, too. And the Moonshaes, outside Myrloch Vale, seem practically magic-barren.
When I check the FAQ, it seems people really wanted to know how Greenwood originally envisioned the islands, almost as if they might, in their campaigns, "correct" the Moonshaes to align with Ed's vision.
Are your campaigns based in the Moonshaes? Since you enjoyed the portayal of the Moonshaes in the novels, do you tweak the rest of the Realms to match the feel of the Moonshaes?
And, to bring us back to the opening post, if you campaign in the Moonshaes, do you use moonwells? |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 20:26:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Thanks, Wooly, for the encouragement to begin Druidholm. IIRC, the cover art on the Druidholm books looked more interesting!!
So, I take it you don't put much stock in the "never judge a book by it's cover" theory? 
You like the covers of the druidhome trilogy ? When I saw it for the first time to the libray, I thought the dealer mistook and put sentimental novels on the Fantasy shelf !
Really !
I was near to ignore this books only because of the covers !
But I loved the first Moonshae trilogy so very much...
To say everything, when I read these novels (as I mostly read in the subway (underground ?) -more than one hour and half per day !-), I covered the books with grey paper !
Just to avoid that other people think I read sentimental novels, women books !!
YES !!!! it's true ! I hate these covers ! IMOHO, too feminine colors 
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"Today is a good day to smile",
Fillow Big'n'Book Mahlemiut 'Lead-dog', Son of Garl, Wanderer of the Masked Leaf and Namer of Oghma.
- Fight in the arena and have fun ! : La brute.com
- Feel free to take part to these projects : Post-Spellplague bibliography ; 4E index project ; Taverns and inns of the Realms ; Dogs of the Realms ; Descriptions of places in the novels ; forums, RPG, FR Abbreviations and Acronyms
- Come and have a look at the already asked questions from the Forgotten Realms Trivia Challenge
I am a French FR fan, so please forgive my lapses in English language and do not hesitate to correct me. Thanks a lot. |
Edited by - Fillow on 07 May 2008 20:27:46 |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2008 : 01:01:50
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Fiilow, thank you! That made me laugh.
I prefer the art of the Druidholm to the art of the Moonshae, but the art still wasn't enough to have me read them when I got them years ago.
Feminine artwork seemed to only affect me when I was reading Evermeet: IotE. I own the paperback, and it has an imperious elf-chik (who looks something like the goth lab-rat girl in the Tv show NCIS) with an elf-dude (who looks a bit like Christian Bale) climbing the ridge to be with her. She's pointing, with a bossy look, and he appears amused.
It's the *only* FR book I've had strangers (all women) approach me and ask what I'm reading (on Chicago's mass transit, at work etc.). I grew accustomed to explaining that I was reading about an elf-queen, but it took a few times before I got it out without blushing.  |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2008 : 01:10:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Gods, if I judged books by their cover, I'd've not bought much of anything FR for the last 5 years! I do not like the current art direction...
I agree. I feel that way when I pick up a Marvel Comic. Much more graphic novel than comic it seems.
In FR, I admit to liking the Elfsong rerelease with Daniel Horne's cover art. I expect it was partially the colors and partially the better portayal of Wyn-Danilo (I never quite knew which one was the blond). Other Danilo covers disturb me. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2008 : 01:17:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
You like the covers of the druidhome trilogy ?
Not really. I'm not much of a fan of Clyde Caldwell's work. I'm more of a Elmore/Easley kinda guy! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 14:29:29
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This conversation about "feminine covers" is making me laugh. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 18:16:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
This conversation about "feminine covers" is making me laugh.
::bowing with a flourish:: We exist but to provide amusement, RF. 
Any ops on cover art you wish to share, RF?  |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 22:49:55
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
::bowing with a flourish:: We exist but to provide amusement, RF.
Any ops on cover art you wish to share, RF?
Yup--I always thought the original cover of Elfsong (the one where Danilo is clenching his teeth as he grabs an elf's shoulder) to be hilarious. The elf looks like a vampire. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 09 May 2008 22:50:12 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2008 : 22:27:45
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I just read through this thread, and I don't recall seeing this mentioned, but if it was, please forgive me in advance -
Bear in mind, that the Moonshae novels were NOT written to take place in the Realms, they were written to be their own setting published by TSR Europe (Britain?). When THAT setting was cancelled, Ed's Moonshaes were changed to match the maps in the novels, and the novels were released as part of the Forgotten Realms... even though they were NOT written for it.
Thats how we ended up with two earth goddesses for one planet. 
Now, I'm surprised Gray Richardson hasn't commented here, because I've had a few discussions with him about Chauntea, the Earthmother, and the cosmos in general, and he has some pretty good ideas about how all of the lore from the novels can be rectified.
Chauntea is the embodiment of Abeir-Toril, much the same way Ao embodies Realmspace. Just as Ao has 'broken off' little pieces of himself to micro-manage the affairs of Realmspace (I like to think of the gods as Ao's self-willed Avatars - not that they know that), Chauntea has gone and broken-off pieces of herself to manage the individual lands of Toril. Every MAJOR body of land, or continent (sometimes several occupy one landmass) has it's own piece of Chauntea which manages it for her. These 'Avatars' are self-willed, and after many milenium have established their own personalities, like Maztica in the west, and Chantee in Kara-Tur. The Earthmother is just the Goddess responsible for the Moonshaes, and possibly some of the other islands in the Sea of Swords (I have a theory about the Moonshaes having been a MUCH larger landmass, most of which sunk, and now only the mountaintops appear above the water).
What that means is that when Chauntea's local 'manager' was outed in the Moonshaes, she stepped in for awhile until that avatar was able to regain some power, or she herself gave it a 'boost'. Basically, she was filling in for the Earthmother until she got back from her 'sabatical'. This does NOT have to contradict anything Brian J. has come up with, because these 'Avatars' don't have to actually be pieces of the goddess - some of them may be elevated 'Chosen' from times primordial... like when the Fey ruled the planet.
This also fits in very well with those of you wishing to move onto the 4e rules/world - in that setting, there are only a few 'High Gods', and all the others answer to them. Chauntea's 'grouping' would contain all of the 'Earth gods', while Sylvanus' would contain all the nature deities (a subtle diference).
BTW, I never connected the Pools of Radiance with the Moonwells before, but you guys have just given me an inspiration for a new article. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 May 2008 15:40:43 |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 00:17:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
::bowing with a flourish:: We exist but to provide amusement, RF.
Any ops on cover art you wish to share, RF?
Yup--I always thought the original cover of Elfsong (the one where Danilo is clenching his teeth as he grabs an elf's shoulder) to be hilarious. The elf looks like a vampire.
You're absolutely right!
And I'm fairly confident that there was no scene in the novels to source that art. Unless you can think of one...? |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 00:30:38
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Markustay, I'm impressed. That cosmology's incredibly well thought-out, and it makes sense.
I look forward to reading more about wells in whatever article you scribe!  |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 11:11:11
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Jorkens, you're right about the feel of some of the earlier novels. I enjoyed the earlier Harpers. Nice stand-alone novels.
The Parched Sea definitely had a lower-magic feel. Soldiers of Ice, too. And the Moonshaes, outside Myrloch Vale, seem practically magic-barren.
When I check the FAQ, it seems people really wanted to know how Greenwood originally envisioned the islands, almost as if they might, in their campaigns, "correct" the Moonshaes to align with Ed's vision.
Are your campaigns based in the Moonshaes? Since you enjoyed the portayal of the Moonshaes in the novels, do you tweak the rest of the Realms to match the feel of the Moonshaes?
And, to bring us back to the opening post, if you campaign in the Moonshaes, do you use moonwells?
No, I usually stay in the Heartlands. But for some strange reason no one plays mages in my campaigns and armour heavier than chain only rarely. fighters and rogues (including rangers and bards) have been teh norm. That and I came to AD&D from the older editions of the Swedish Drakar och Demoner system(which I still prefer) This has led to the campaign getting more of a Dark Age feel.
You must remember that in the early 90's internet an option (at least not for me, who am not exactly what one would call progressive when it comes to technology) and gaming products was bought at a random, so things were developed as needed and modified as new products came into play. That could include non-Realmsian products such as Karameikos from the D&D line, it could be the influence of The Complete book of Humanoids on the campaign and etc.
The few novels I bought in the early years (Moonshae and Harper series, Spellfire and Shadowdale. In adition to a few Dragonlance books) did little to change the early medieval feel. In the end I prefer my own version before the official version and have stayed with it. |
Edited by - Jorkens on 16 May 2008 11:12:25 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 15:24:13
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
You're absolutely right!
And I'm fairly confident that there was no scene in the novels to source that art. Unless you can think of one...?
I can't.
A lot of books have covers that show scenes that never took place within the text. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 16 May 2008 15:27:56 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 15:57:13
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Markustay, I'm impressed. That cosmology's incredibly well thought-out, and it makes sense.
I look forward to reading more about wells in whatever article you scribe!
Thank You 
But as I said, Gray Richardson really deserves top-billing for those concepts, because most of that came out of conversations I've had with him.
We diverge a bit when expanded beyond Abeir-Toril though - While I have set-up each level of 'Godhood' to have avatars of the next level down, aside form Chauntea, I don't believe he has gone further with the notion of 'local managers'. He also believes Chauntea to be the represtation of the physical' aspect of Realmspace, and that she has pieces of herself for each other planet as well, including a Illithid one! I prefer to give Ao the top-billing in that regard, elst Ao and Chauntea start to sound like equals.
I think to create a Chosen (and I could be way off here), a god must give a piece of itself (a Divine Rank) to create said Chosen. Like Attribute damage among mortals, I believe Gods eventually 'heal' this missing power level. Anyway, to create an Avatar, the god must do the exact same thing.
Now, given that, how hard is it to figure out that Chosen are merely self-willed Avatars? Since I assume most Avatars will gain a level of independence if seperated too long from the 'owner', this would be a great way for a god to quickly generate self-willed Avatars, rather then waiting around the millenia or two it might take for one to develop it's own personality. A mortal who has it's 'Avatarness/Chosenhood stripped from it doesn't neccessarily die automatically, but may do so from the shock of losing that tiny sliver of Godhood.
Strangely enough, this way of looking at how the inner machinery of Divinty really works fits into 4e's way of handling the Gods perfectly, and Gray and I were talking about this stuff over a year ago, before we even knew about 4e. Every god has someone they must answer to, and lesser gods/demi-gods need more 'hand-holding' then higher powers. FR had this set-up all along, it was just never really focused upon. If you look through the 2e FR god-books, you will see plenty of illustrations of groups of gods seperated by areas of interest.
Not that I'm a great supporter of 4e, but that aspect of the cosmology fits FR rather well, IMHO. Gods always had their 'clicks' - it's just been formalized in the rules now. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 May 2008 16:03:19 |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2008 : 17:54:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
This conversation about "feminine covers" is making me laugh.
quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Fiilow, thank you! That made me laugh.
Rinonalyrna & monknwildcat, I'm happy for having made you laugh ! 
quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Feminine artwork seemed to only affect me when I was reading Evermeet: IotE. I own the paperback, and it has an imperious elf-chik (who looks something like the goth lab-rat girl in the Tv show NCIS) with an elf-dude (who looks a bit like Christian Bale) climbing the ridge to be with her. She's pointing, with a bossy look, and he appears amused.
You speaks about Pauley Perette ? I never thought about it !
I have to admit I jumped this novel because I do not really love elves ! So, I never really had looks at the cover ! The book has been staying on the shelf since I bought it !
But you seem to be right about the male feelings !
quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
It's the *only* FR book I've had strangers (all women) approach me and ask what I'm reading (on Chicago's mass transit, at work etc.). I grew accustomed to explaining that I was reading about an elf-queen, but it took a few times before I got it out without blushing.
Rina, you couldn't understand it !
I understand your attitude monknwildcat. Really ! Only men know this feeling.
But it seems to be a good way to meet women... thanks a lot monknwildcat ! 
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"Today is a good day to smile",
Fillow Big'n'Book Mahlemiut 'Lead-dog', Son of Garl, Wanderer of the Masked Leaf and Namer of Oghma.
- Fight in the arena and have fun ! : La brute.com
- Feel free to take part to these projects : Post-Spellplague bibliography ; 4E index project ; Taverns and inns of the Realms ; Dogs of the Realms ; Descriptions of places in the novels ; forums, RPG, FR Abbreviations and Acronyms
- Come and have a look at the already asked questions from the Forgotten Realms Trivia Challenge
I am a French FR fan, so please forgive my lapses in English language and do not hesitate to correct me. Thanks a lot. |
Edited by - Fillow on 17 May 2008 17:57:13 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2008 : 20:31:49
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| At least we never had Fabio in a 'puffy shirt' on one of the covers. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2008 : 20:46:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
At least we never had Fabio in a 'puffy shirt' on one of the covers.
LOL. A short, dark Fabio's pretty close to how I envisioned Fyodor of the Shadows and Starlight novels, Markustay. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2008 : 02:03:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Folks, we seem to have wandered a little off-topic. Let's return to the discussion of Moonwells, eh?
Word.
Closer to the topic, I finished the Druidholm trilogy, and I appreciate all y'alls encouragement to give them a read...previous trilogy and cover art withstanding. The Druidholm trilogy far exceeded my expectations.
Back on topic, there are some active moonwells at the end of the books: Myrloch Vale on Gwynneth, Fairheight on Alaron, and one guarded by some firbolgs in one of the northern islands. I never totally figured out which island that well was on (i.e. if it was Dragonshome or Gotha's Island). It seems logical that there'd be wells on the other two large islands (Moray and Snowdon, if not also Norland). |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2008 : 02:08:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
Rina, you couldn't understand it !
Well, I suppose not. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2008 : 07:59:13
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I must admit I am having a bit of trouble with the "To feminine colours" idea. Care to elaborate?
I don't think I have had that much problem with the covers of any book I own, except maybe one non-Realmsian cover. The Moonshae books are more or less soap-opera, so the covers are fitting. |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Moonwells
