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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 18:29:33
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Alright, anyone that pays attention to my post can probably pick out my misspent youth reading comic books, and they have had at least a little bit of an influence on how I view other fantasy settings.
That having been said, does anyone know of any lost city intelligent monkey (ape) type cities in the Realms, you know, like Gorilla Grod from Flash and his city (okay, to look more worldly, like all those degenerate nearly intelligent apes that lived in lost cities in Robert E Howards stuff . . . except they can talk and are smarter than you).
Obviously there are some places for them in the Realms, but have any actually ever been mentioned?
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 18:32:03
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I don't know of any specific examples, but Chult comes to mind as a prime place where that might occur. Barring hidden "forgotten valleys" I don't know of too many more.
Course there will be some races in Monster Manuals that could qualify but I don't know what niche they would fill in FR. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 18:44:57
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| I do not know of any location, however awaken spell can make many of them *wink* anyplace t all that they live. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 20:21:37
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| In the depths of the Black Jungle hides a tribe of exceptionally intelligent apes. An awakened dire ape that calls himself "Goshew" was freed from slavery ten years ago by a group of adventures. Captured by a moderately powerful Red Wizard in hiding, many terrible experiments were performed on Goshew. It was during his captivity that Goshew was awakened. Goshew hid his newfound intelligence from his captors, and learned by weatching them for the remaining two years of his imprisonment. When adventurers took down the Red Wizard, they tried to free the poor beast. After they had removed his manacles, they repeatedly told him to "go" and "shew", trying to get the traumatized ape to run. Unfamiliar with this behavior, he assumed that the humans had named him Goshew. The ape helped the adventurers finish off the wizard's apprentices, mercenaries, and bodyguards, and went on to help them defeat a tribe of yuan-ti slavers. He travelled with the adventurers for several season, further learning the ways of humans, even learning to use the greatsword that the fighter of the group gave him. Once he had helped his saviors sufficiently, he gathered a tribe of apes and has been teaching them ever since. Although he is the only one capable of speech, all of the apes in his tribe are exceptional, with intelligence scores in the 4-6 range. Goshew's tribe can be found in the Black Jungle. The tribe is leary of outsiders, but Goshew is fond of humans. If his tribe is threatened, Goshew will attack with his greatsword while the rest of his tribe climbs nearby trees and throws the large rocks that Goshew has placed in baskets that have been tied to the trees. On the other hand, if the party does not pose a threat, and acts graciously toward their host, Goshew is generally very friendly, and he will usually provide food and shelter. |
War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
Aermhar of the Tangletrees
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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 21:15:23
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To the option of the DM, however they are intelligent Monkeys as much as a close relative of humans, Neanderthals might fight right in the spine of the world. Infact, if you ask me, the actual Neanderthal of our own history shares many a thing in common with Dwarves, such as a short, broad figure with incredibly thick bones.
Now for a city of Intelligent apes. The only problem I see with making in the Chult is that there's quite a few races there that generally don't appreciate non-reptilian settlements. I always pictured Chult as a world were Dinosaurs weren't knocked out by a meteor, thus making it a sort of anti-mammalian place (however there are human settlements, they survive by the fact that humans are technologically more advanced than saurian descendents). Non-developed, mammalian sentients would simply be preyed upon endlessly, perhaps even until extinction. |
"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
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Decay9
Acolyte
6 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 21:37:33
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Um, I am not too sure, but in the "Oriental Campaign" book, there is a race called Vanara, that look prety much like mediam sized monkeys, though they are more humanoid, so... I'm not sure if that would work or not, but I'm sure if a group of them got lost on Faerun, or any realm, they might band together to form their own civilization there.
I travel with a Vanara Wu-Jen(Essentially, a wizard.) |
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Decay |
Edited by - Decay9 on 21 Jul 2005 21:38:23 |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 02:15:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Decay9
Um, I am not too sure, but in the "Oriental Campaign" book, there is a race called Vanara, that look prety much like mediam sized monkeys, though they are more humanoid, so... I'm not sure if that would work or not, but I'm sure if a group of them got lost on Faerun, or any realm, they might band together to form their own civilization there.
I travel with a Vanara Wu-Jen(Essentially, a wizard.)
They look very similiar to the "Chimps" from the Planet of the Apes if I recall the picture for the Vanara correctly. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 02:49:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Decay9
Um, I am not too sure, but in the "Oriental Campaign" book...
Oriental Adventures:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/882440000
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
...there is a race called Vanara, that look prety much like mediam sized monkeys, though they are more humanoid, so... I'm not sure if that would work or not, but I'm sure if a group of them got lost on Faerun, or any realm, they might band together to form their own civilization there.
I travel with a Vanara Wu-Jen(Essentially, a wizard.)
They look very similiar to the "Chimps" from the Planet of the Apes if I recall the picture for the Vanara correctly.
See here:- http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/oa_gallery/OA_races.jpg
It's the creature on the farthest right.
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 04:46:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Decay9
Um, I am not too sure, but in the "Oriental Campaign" book...
Oriental Adventures:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/882440000
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
...there is a race called Vanara, that look prety much like mediam sized monkeys, though they are more humanoid, so... I'm not sure if that would work or not, but I'm sure if a group of them got lost on Faerun, or any realm, they might band together to form their own civilization there.
I travel with a Vanara Wu-Jen(Essentially, a wizard.)
They look very similiar to the "Chimps" from the Planet of the Apes if I recall the picture for the Vanara correctly.
See here:- http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/oa_gallery/OA_races.jpg
It's the creature on the farthest right.
So yep, I was fairly close  |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 06:09:38
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Yeah, but the creatures I am thinking of are more like the Gorilla military types from Planet of the Apes (as I said though, definately inspired by Gorilla Grod from Flash).
As George has said often, I guess if I want this done, I'll have to do it myself. I'll post some details once I wrap my mind around this particular bit of unofficial Realmslore. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 06:25:42
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
As George has said often, I guess if I want this done, I'll have to do it myself.
Words always good to take to heart.
That being said, the Krash is very wise indeed! 
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 06:29:27
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Okay, I am already scouting out a good location for the city, but anybody want to brainstorm on what god might have a foothold in the city. I want the ruling class to be lawful evil, with a chaotic good rebellious group waging . . . guerilla warfare (I'm so sorry)
Now, the challenge is to find some gods that aren't serpentine or reptilian in nature to bring into the story. The rebels could worship Ubtao, though I am not fully sure I am going to put it in Chult proper, but Bane just doesn't fit into the whole southern Realms/lost city theme I have going.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 06:32:12
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As far as my current direction on this and the Realmslore involved, I am thinking that back when the Shoon were trying to assert their influence on Samarach, some of them started to experiement on the great apes in the area, awakening some so as to serve as soldiers and body guards back in Calimshan. When the Empire plague devestated the region, the awakened apes broke free and started their own society.
I'll be pulling this all together more cohesively later, right now this is more or less thinking out loud. |
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Decay9
Acolyte
6 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 06:34:04
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| Um, I am not too familiar with all of the dieties. But isn't Malar an evil diety of beasts, and such? He might be considered... Just a suggestion.. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 06:36:18
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| I thought of that, but even the evil apes are herbivores, as they are simply awakened gorillas that have been given opposable thumbs. So they may be aggresive, but I have a hard time picturing vegetarian worshippers of Malar, though it is a very interesting (and amusing) thing to ponder. |
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Decay9
Acolyte
6 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 06:41:54
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| Hehehe, that would be quite the sight. ^.^ |
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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 20:54:58
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Knight, keep in mind that the whole 'Apes fear water' thing comes with reason. One of the most accepted scientific theories for what separated homosapiens from chimps and gorillas was that we think that Cro-Magnon might have been natural divers. Whereas Chimps and Gorillas generally don't have the ideal body for swimming ('c' shaped spine, lower vital capacity in lungs, smaller area in the brain having to do with breathing and respiratory control).
Personally, I'm thinking Samarach. There's almost nothing on it in the FRCS, its close to chult for the climate, but has a nice mountain range to keep unwanted reptiles out, and has the higher, forested areas gorillas typically like.
Maybe deep in the jungle there is a colony of these gorilla people, who are isolated there by a great river to one side (the river that runs through Samarach) and the mountains on the other side. |
"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 21:14:19
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And now that I think about it, maybe the Gorilla people should get their own deity. They sound like the type of people which would be independent enough to need/have one.
Some ideas for it's domains might be: Family, Law, Evil and Strength
Or, depending on what you're intending which these Gorillas that are 'smarter than you', you might swape Mentalism for Strength. |
"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 23:38:09
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Yeah, I was already leaning toward Samarach due to the Shoon tie in that I had come up with. Anyone out there have any reasons why this would or would not work I would like to hear it.
You know, I had thought of the whole super intelligent thing, but now that you bring up mentallism, I'm thinking I could see my super apes with psionic classes before wizard/sorcerer levels. And the psuedo science thing evokes images of Howards smart ape types.
I know this sounds funny with everything else I am making up (lost ape city, ape rebels, Shoon experiments, etc.) but I am reticent to make up a new deity until I absolutely cannot figure out a good existing one. I'll cogitate on this one a bit more.
Luther, thanks for some of the suggestions, and every one else too. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 02:15:39
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I know this sounds funny with everything else I am making up (lost ape city, ape rebels, Shoon experiments, etc.) but I am reticent to make up a new deity until I absolutely cannot figure out a good existing one. I'll cogitate on this one a bit more.
I'm not entirely sure, but I recall mention of a god of "primates" in a third-party product dedicated to an "African-styles" world. I can check the details for you... perhaps you could use the god as a basis for creating a mythological creator entity for this.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 02:30:36
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I would appreciate it Sage, though I have started to have my own ideas gel now finally.
I am thinking that perhaps the first of the apes to develop not only sentience but also psionic powers became somewhat of a de facto leader among the awakened apes. When the Empire Plauge struck, this ape led the attack upon the Shoon agents that allowed the awakened apes to escape into the jungle.
In a few years this ape became more powerful psionically and the other apes revered him so greatly, that eventually he became a demi-power as he ascended his need for a physical body, and thus manifests in an intagible form of psionic energy. He is a neutral diety that is essentially concered with the health and well being of his city.
The evil apes that have taken over pay lip service to him, though they have few divine spellcasters, but those among the rebels that are more neutrally aligned (mainly neutral good) worship him and gain powers from him.
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 05:11:10
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I know this sounds funny with everything else I am making up (lost ape city, ape rebels, Shoon experiments, etc.) but I am reticent to make up a new deity until I absolutely cannot figure out a good existing one. I'll cogitate on this one a bit more.
I'm not entirely sure, but I recall mention of a god of "primates" in a third-party product dedicated to an "African-styles" world. I can check the details for you... perhaps you could use the god as a basis for creating a mythological creator entity for this.
I believe you are referring to Nyambe: African Adventures by Atlas Games. The Player's Lorebook is available for free download at http://www.atlas-games.com/nyambe/index.php
The animal orisha are lesser spirits, and there is an orisha for every species. These could be easily adapted to the Realms as demi-gods, if nothing else, it could give you some good ideas. |
War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
Aermhar of the Tangletrees
Year of the Hooded Falcon
Xysma's Gallery
Guide to the Tomes and Tales of the Realms download from Candlekeep
Anthologies and Tales Overviews
Check out my custom action figures, hand-painted miniatures, gaming products, and other stuff on eBay.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 06:55:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I know this sounds funny with everything else I am making up (lost ape city, ape rebels, Shoon experiments, etc.) but I am reticent to make up a new deity until I absolutely cannot figure out a good existing one. I'll cogitate on this one a bit more.
I'm not entirely sure, but I recall mention of a god of "primates" in a third-party product dedicated to an "African-styles" world. I can check the details for you... perhaps you could use the god as a basis for creating a mythological creator entity for this.
I believe you are referring to Nyambe: African Adventures by Atlas Games. The Player's Lorebook is available for free download at http://www.atlas-games.com/nyambe/index.php
The animal orisha are lesser spirits, and there is an orisha for every species. These could be easily adapted to the Realms as demi-gods, if nothing else, it could give you some good ideas.
That is true... since most of the orisha presented are fairly generic relating more to creature types than actual cultures -- which would make it hard to port into the Realms.
However, Nyambe wasn't the setting I was referring to.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 16:24:51
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| Thanks for the link to that site. That does make for some interesting "flavor" material for Chult perhaps, though its not all immediately useable, it does get the mental processes going. |
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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 16:46:01
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Here Knight, how about this idea (only if you like it though).
The Gorilla society functions like a pyramid sliced into three sections horizontally (sort of like your typical distopian book).
The Base: The typically Neutrally (N, or NG) aligned, 'proles' (you may want to use a different word) who are very pious to their savior: the original psionic gorilla. They are typically forced into harsh labor building magnificent cities and constructions, mining possibily all hours in a day to find the valuable ore located in the Samarach mountains (One could be salt, which by the FRCS is a commodity found in Samarach). They are loyal subjects which try to make an honest living, express unwavering faith to their deity, but are otherwise oppresed by those above them. They live simple lives, and do not cling to materialism. The category is also the most likely to become a rebel.
The Middle: The Military. The strongest, most physically apt are trained to keep the less important and less 'ideal' members of society in line. If a 'prole' decides it wants to take a rest, it beats it. They are also given exclusive rights to the lower class females, seeing their genes as superior, and worthy of being passed on so as to create more super soldiers. Most members of the military would be aligned LE, with the occasional LN who is simply loyal to his way of society, and perhaps more loyal to his deity than the other soldiers. From birth the more powerful apes are made into obidient soldiers, so as to make sure that the strongest apes are on the side of the final category, as opposed to the rebels.
The Top: the 'inner party' (once again, change the name so George Orwell doesn't sue you). Almost entirely a society of psions that constantly try to gain more and more power. Each one strives to be the greatest psion, and the party leader is the one with the most psionic power (sort of like psionic Gorillas from Thay). They use their powers to show to the military that they are in charge. They reward those who serve their whims unquestionably with breeding rights and territory, and punish those to bring any question to their rule or speak of such heretical ideas as 'rights' or 'freedom of speech'. Each one wants to reach the level of the original psionic gorilla by increasing their power, and are not afraid to express their tyranny down the pyramid. |
"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 16:52:26
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quote:
Luther, thanks for some of the suggestions, and every one else too.
Hey, not a problem at all. Let me know when its finished, because lets just face it, PSIONIC GORILLAS! I MEAN COME ON, COOLEST IDEA SINCE PEZ DISPENCERS!
And I'm guessing by comic books, you probably liked the super smart Gorilla from Hellboy.
But ya, be sure to give me the info when it's done! |
"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 16:55:46
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Thats good Cromwell, I like it. I would also put in that the upper tier psions aren't all just evil and domineering though, but that the society has fallen into tyranny becuase the psions that aren't evil are so aloof and deeply given to their practice of finding "higher conciousness" that they haven't noticed (or wanted to notice) the more tyrannical psions and military leaders.
Among the lower classes, besides a few wild talents, there might also be a growing number of favored souls among the neutral and neutral good apes, as their original savior is trying to exert a balance in his society that is currently out of whack. The demigod himself isn't ready to throw his society into civil war, but some of the NG favored souls may easily end up with the more CG rebels.
Heh . . . designing gorilla societies is fun!
Oh, BTW, if George Orwell does anything to me at this point in time I'm gonna scream like a little girl and put my priest on speed dial. |
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prototype00
Acolyte
48 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 18:32:58
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I know exactly where to put the lost temple of demogorgon now. Thank you all.
prototype00
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 18:43:47
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Oh, BTW, if George Orwell does anything to me at this point in time
You should not need worry about him, however the Estate may or may not be a problem. There being various ways to extend copyright (some more questionable then others). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 19:40:24
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| Prototype, you are brilliant . . . I just have to see if I can work the taint of Demogorgon into my increasingly convoluted plans for the region, lol. |
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prototype00
Acolyte
48 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2005 : 01:59:23
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Thanks for the compliment. Since Chult is kinda reptile-centric and the temple of demogorgon had trogs awakening all sorts of apes and it had the "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom" feel to it, I thought it went well together.
prototype00 |
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Intelligent Monkeys (okay apes) in the Realms
