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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Apr 2011 : 18:08:31
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Re the OP, I'm biased re: my own villains, so I'll toss out my favorite non-ESDB villain: Halaster.
Eh? Eh?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Wait, Karsus is a villain? Since when? He wanted to ascend to save his empire. He just didn't know what consequences it would bring. The intention/means justifies, in a way, the end.
So since his intention was to save the empire, this justifies him destroying it? 
The road to the Nine Hells needs paving stones, after all.
Karsus is what we call a "tragic villain"--someone brought down by hubris, like Oedipus or Agamemnon. Could he have avoided his awful fate? Sure, there were all sorts of points at which he could have left his path, but he was so convinced of his own power and destiny that he stuck to it.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36865 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2011 : 18:56:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Re the OP, I'm biased re: my own villains, so I'll toss out my favorite non-ESDB villain: Halaster.
Eh? Eh?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Wait, Karsus is a villain? Since when? He wanted to ascend to save his empire. He just didn't know what consequences it would bring. The intention/means justifies, in a way, the end.
So since his intention was to save the empire, this justifies him destroying it?
The road to the Nine Hells needs paving stones, after all.
Karsus is what we call a "tragic villain"--someone brought down by hubris, like Oedipus or Agamemnon. Could he have avoided his awful fate? Sure, there were all sorts of points at which he could have left his path, but he was so convinced of his own power and destiny that he stuck to it.
Cheers
Oh, I agree with that. I'm just questioning how his destruction of the empire was justified. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2011 : 19:09:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The intention/means justifies, in a way, the end.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So since his intention was to save the empire, this justifies him destroying it?
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
The road to the Nine Hells needs paving stones, after all.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, I agree with that. I'm just questioning how his destruction of the empire was justified.
And I would agree with you that it wasn't. It was an unfortunate consequence of his own hubris. Hence, tragic villain. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 00:59:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Re the OP, I'm biased re: my own villains, so I'll toss out my favorite non-ESDB villain: Halaster.
Eh? Eh?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Wait, Karsus is a villain? Since when? He wanted to ascend to save his empire. He just didn't know what consequences it would bring. The intention/means justifies, in a way, the end.
So since his intention was to save the empire, this justifies him destroying it?
The road to the Nine Hells needs paving stones, after all.
Karsus is what we call a "tragic villain"--someone brought down by hubris, like Oedipus or Agamemnon. Could he have avoided his awful fate? Sure, there were all sorts of points at which he could have left his path, but he was so convinced of his own power and destiny that he stuck to it.
Cheers
Erik has the right of it.
As I've said elsewhere, I think it's a complete disservice to the character of Karsus to merely label him as "mad" or "insane" and that his "Great Folly" was nothing more than a simple power-grab.
I do believe that whatever path Karsus truly found himself on, he actually believed that something positive would come about as a result, and not only for himself. His hubris likely also convinced him that all of Netheril would benefit from his rise as well, and, perhaps, to a even greater extent, all of Toril also. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36865 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 04:21:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Inaction would have been worse. Seeing his empire die every second and doing nothing about it. His means could not only be seen as a selfish power-grab, but also as a desperate attempt to save Netheril. Remember, he did not start to look for the star/heavy magic in the past until the phaerimm's magic drain proved to be beyond his might alone to counter. It was partly desperation that drove him to seek a source of magic enough to solve his empire's problem. Had he been powerful enough to dispel the magic drain and kill the phaerimm, he would most likely never resort to stripping Mystryl of her divinity. Why would he, if he's already a "god" (in his own right) in Toril. Unfortunately, he was not that puissant. Hence, the desperate means.
So he's justified in destroying Netheril, because it would have fallen anyway? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 05:00:50
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Inaction would have been worse. Seeing his empire die every second and doing nothing about it. His means could not only be seen as a selfish power-grab, but also as a desperate attempt to save Netheril. Remember, he did not start to look for the star/heavy magic in the past until the phaerimm's magic drain proved to be beyond his might alone to counter. It was partly desperation that drove him to seek a source of magic enough to solve his empire's problem. Had he been powerful enough to dispel the magic drain and kill the phaerimm, he would most likely never resort to stripping Mystryl of her divinity. Why would he, if he's already a "god" (in his own right) in Toril. Unfortunately, he was not that puissant. Hence, the desperate means.
Maybe, we're just predisposed to the idea that Karsus was irredeemably selfish, incapable of noble intentions. But isn't trying to save an empire (probably the most powerful and influential in the history of Toril) from utter entropy not noble? Had he possessed the foresight not even the goddess of magic herself did---that is, seeing the consequence of his action---he wouldn't have done it in the first place. He was mad, not stupid.
Now allow me provide an example that might prove relevant to this discussion. Imagine this situation: The Simbul had long ago "planted" mountain-shattering defensive spells around Aglarond, which she hid with her most potent cloaking spells; all of which only she herself could activate at the most dire of moments. Now Szass Tam finds out that the magic concentrated in Aglarond interferes with the energies emanating from the Dread Rings he has erected all around the Sword Coast, which in turn disables him to perform his demented ritual. He decides that the only way to neutralize the said magic is to annihilate Aglarond itself. With the help of Bane (or Larloch; you choose), he discovers the Witch-Queen's "death-traps." Tam marches his undead army in strategic locations and batters Aglarond ruthlessly and relentlessly. The Simbul, having felt exhaustion after battling the seemingly countless undead, and having seen her own army proves insufficient to defend her realm, finally activates her "planted" spells. She knows the blasts would most likely kill some of her followers as well. But she can sacrifice a few if it means the survival of the many. What she doesn't know is that Tam has corrupted those spells in such a way that when she utters the trigger phase, they fold on themselves, explode, and cause a massive earthquake, creating fissures wide and deep enough to swallow castles. Just like that, Aglarond is gone. Now, does trying to save her realm make her a horrible villain just because she ends up destroying it instead? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36865 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 05:21:31
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It's not the same thing. Karsus was trying to save his empire from a doom they were free to flee from at any time. They had flying cities -- nothing tied them to that one particular location.
Besides, Karsus's decision to supplant the goddess of magic was pure arrogance. He could have picked another deity... Or he could have figured out a better way to deal with the phaerimm magic. The phaerimm may be very powerful, but they're just mortal -- and thus an easier target than a deity.
Alternatively, he could have formed a coalition of Netherese mages, and lead them in forging a collective magic that would have stopped what the phaerimm were doing.
So Karsus had choices. But he also had arrogance, and that's what destroyed Netheril. His foolishness destroyed what he was trying to save. I don't see how that can possibly be justified, especially since there were other, more reasonable alternatives. |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 10:59:56
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I realy only recognize about half of these, but I chose Elaith, because he reminds me of some of the villains in long-running series and comics that I love so much.
I briefly considered Szass Tam, Manshoom, and Fzoul. however, I feel that none of them are good enough to me.
Szass Tam is boring; just another generic lich-lord, I yawn when I think of him, and wouldn't do more than make him a side-dish antagonist.
Manshoon doesn't strike me as evil enough. he has ambition, and therefore potential, but realy he still comes second to Elaith in both regards. he's not a bad choice though.
Fzoul would make a fun and remarkable villain, and I hear that Lawful Evil tends to make the best villains, however I just don't feel it with him... I'd love to read it, and I'm sure he's got it down pat... but I dunno, Elaith just seems so much more fun to use. >w< |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 11:07:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Karsus had choices. But he also had arrogance, and that's what destroyed Netheril. His foolishness destroyed what he was trying to save. I don't see how that can possibly be justified, especially since there were other, more reasonable alternatives.
The Simbul has options, too. She could have sought help from all her allies- her fellow Chosen and some other mighty people- had she known her spells had been corrupted. Similarly, Karsus would have done other means - like the one you suggested (a coalition of Netherese archwizards) - had he known his Avatar spell would destroy Netheril. For both Alassra and Karsus, the choices they made were what they thought were the best at that moment in time. They might have incredible skill at divination, but it wasn't powerful enough to divine the results of their decisions. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36865 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 14:58:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Karsus had choices. But he also had arrogance, and that's what destroyed Netheril. His foolishness destroyed what he was trying to save. I don't see how that can possibly be justified, especially since there were other, more reasonable alternatives.
The Simbul has options, too. She could have sought help from all her allies- her fellow Chosen and some other mighty people- had she known her spells had been corrupted. Similarly, Karsus would have done other means - like the one you suggested (a coalition of Netherese archwizards) - had he known his Avatar spell would destroy Netheril. For both Alassra and Karsus, the choices they made were what they thought were the best at that moment in time. They might have incredible skill at divination, but it wasn't powerful enough to divine the results of their decisions.
You're discussing a hypothetical situation that's not the same as what happened. In your scenario, the Simbul took what just about anyone would consider a reasonable precaution to try to save her nation -- not a overt action, a defensive move. And in that scenario, the Simbul does not have the option of taking Aglarond elsewhere.
The Netherese did have that option. And Karsus had options other than seeking godhood. The fact that he didn't consider those options, and that he didn't look at the possible ramifications of his one choice, is where he failed.
I'm not saying Karsus is evil... But it is undeniable that it was his poor decision that destroyed his nation.
My original point was questioning how it was justified that in trying to save Netheril, Karsus destroyed it. Saying it was justified is saying that because he meant well, it's okay that tens of thousands of people, their civilization, and a goddess died. That's the part I don't get. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 22:11:22
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| wait, THAT'S ho Karsus is!? :D OH! ok! XD |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 00:50:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In your scenario, the Simbul took what just about anyone would consider a reasonable precaution to try to save her nation -- not a overt action, a defensive move. And in that scenario, the Simbul does not have the option of taking Aglarond elsewhere.
I disagree. She is the Simbul and a Chosen. Saying the names of her fellow Chosen would have made them appear before her and help her. And who knows how many allies she's made during her centuries of existence?! So, she has options. She simply thinks what she chooses is the best one because she's blind to Tam's tampering of her spells.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The fact that he didn't consider those options, and that he didn't look at the possible ramifications of his one choice, is where he failed.
I'm not saying Karsus is evil... But it is undeniable that it was his poor decision that destroyed his nation.
My original point was questioning how it was justified that in trying to save Netheril, Karsus destroyed it.
What do you think is the reason he hired Candlemas? He did so partly because he wanted to be advised, given options he might have failed to see. Just because he did not do Candlemas's suggestions and what he himself thought were his other, less desperate measures, doesn't mean he did not consider them. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 01:04:09
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| I voted for Sarya. Or rather, the Sarya from Hellgate Keep. The version of her in The Last Mythal series wasn't even close to how she is in the module, and didn't reflect her intelligence in the slightest. Actually, none of the fey'ri were carried off all that well in that series in my opinion. But, whatever. Sarya's still my favorite, and when I use her, it's in the style of Hellgate Keep. |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36865 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 01:24:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In your scenario, the Simbul took what just about anyone would consider a reasonable precaution to try to save her nation -- not a overt action, a defensive move. And in that scenario, the Simbul does not have the option of taking Aglarond elsewhere.
I disagree. She is the Simbul and a Chosen. Saying the names of her fellow Chosen would have made them appear before her and help her. And who knows how many allies she's made during her centuries of existence?! So, she has options. She simply thinks what she chooses is the best one because she's blind to Tam's tampering of her spells.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The fact that he didn't consider those options, and that he didn't look at the possible ramifications of his one choice, is where he failed.
I'm not saying Karsus is evil... But it is undeniable that it was his poor decision that destroyed his nation.
My original point was questioning how it was justified that in trying to save Netheril, Karsus destroyed it.
What do you think is the reason he hired Candlemas? He did so partly because he wanted to be advised, given options he might have failed to see. Just because he did not do Candlemas's suggestions and what he himself thought were his other, less desperate measures, doesn't mean he did not consider them.
Okay, you're missing two of my points: a hypothetical situation involving a reasonable precaution and what really happened, involving a move inspired purely by arrogance, are not the same thing. The other point is that what I was questioning wasn't whether or not Karsus was right, I was questioning the statement that his destruction of Netheril was justified by his intent of saving it. I'm really not wanting to debate what he did; I just want to know how it was justified. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Apr 2011 01:25:45 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 01:50:14
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I use that Simbul-Aglarond example because there's no one in the Realms who's made a mistake as big as Karsus's. And they are the same in the way that their "good" intentions (and lack of foresight) justify the consequences of their actions. If you can't accept that, that's a choice you're free to make. We might as well agree to disagree on this matter. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36865 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 02:51:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I use that Simbul-Aglarond example because there's no one in the Realms who's made a mistake as big as Karsus's. And they are the same in the way that their "good" intentions (and lack of foresight) justify the consequences of their actions. If you can't accept that, that's a choice you're free to make. We might as well agree to disagree on this matter.
So again, you feel that Karsus was justified in destroying Netheril, because he meant well? That's all I'm trying to understand, here. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 03:51:26
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I hate repeating myself, so I leave it at that. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 03:56:02
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The poll says, "Not necessarily your favorite villain, but the greatest one you can think of."
What exactly did Elaith do that makes him one of the choices in this poll? No sarcasm intended. It's an honest curiosity. I hardly know him. I only remember him from Ed and Elaine's City of Splendors; and though there are hints as to his accomplishments here and there, they are not explained, let alone revealed in the book. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3745 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 04:18:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The poll says, "Not necessarily your favorite villain, but the greatest one you can think of."
What exactly did Elaith do that makes him one of the choices in this poll? No sarcasm intended. It's an honest curiosity. I hardly know him. I only remember him from Ed and Elaine's City of Splendors; and though there are hints as to his accomplishments here and there, they are not explained, let alone revealed in the book.
-Well, to be metagame for a second, his alignment in the FRCS was Neutral Evil. That aside, he began his path to ruin when engaging in Elven tomb robbing, as described in Evermeet: Island of the Elves. Not evil, per se, but...After he left Evermeet and came to Watderdeep, all angry and hopeless because of what happened there, and with Princess Amnestria, he became a mercenary for hire who had no problem doing the "dirty" things that some mercenaries do, like senseless killing, assassination, and that kind of stuff. He slowly built up his reputation, and became something of a local underworld mafioso, specifically known for his ruthlessness and brutality. He utilizes Necromancy, not an evil thing per se, but a highly prohibited Elven taboo. In Dream Spheres he had no problem using the black kiira, a twisted and evil artifact.
-If you haven't read them, the Songs and Swords series is a must read, not just for information about Elaith, but just because they're among the cream of the crop of Forgotten Realms novels, period. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 24 Apr 2011 04:19:44 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 04:26:14
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Doesn't sound that great to me. But thanks, anyway. Perhaps I should read those books. But the big problem is that there is a strong elven presence in those novels. So I have to pass. One day, if ever that day comes, when I get over my love for elves, I might read the said books. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3745 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 04:32:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Doesn't sound that great to me. But thanks, anyway. Perhaps I should read those books. But the big problem is that there is a strong elven presence in those novels. So I have to pass. One day, if ever that day comes, when I get over my love for elves, I might read the said books.
-He's basically an Elven Tony Soprano in Waterdeep's underworld. Organized crime kingpins, I'd classify them as bad, bad people. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 04:41:54
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In CoS, he struck me as neutral. But then again, even bad guys can play neutral if it suits their interest. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 10:02:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The poll says, "Not necessarily your favorite villain, but the greatest one you can think of."
What exactly did Elaith do that makes him one of the choices in this poll? No sarcasm intended. It's an honest curiosity. I hardly know him. I only remember him from Ed and Elaine's City of Splendors; and though there are hints as to his accomplishments here and there, they are not explained, let alone revealed in the book.
-Well, to be metagame for a second, his alignment in the FRCS was Neutral Evil. That aside, he began his path to ruin when engaging in Elven tomb robbing, as described in Evermeet: Island of the Elves. Not evil, per se, but...After he left Evermeet and came to Watderdeep, all angry and hopeless because of what happened there, and with Princess Amnestria, he became a mercenary for hire who had no problem doing the "dirty" things that some mercenaries do, like senseless killing, assassination, and that kind of stuff. He slowly built up his reputation, and became something of a local underworld mafioso, specifically known for his ruthlessness and brutality. He utilizes Necromancy, not an evil thing per se, but a highly prohibited Elven taboo. In Dream Spheres he had no problem using the black kiira, a twisted and evil artifact.
-If you haven't read them, the Songs and Swords series is a must read, not just for information about Elaith, but just because they're among the cream of the crop of Forgotten Realms novels, period.
I have to point out, to be fair, that the only reason Elaith held no qualms against ussing the Kiira was becase he convinced himself that he shouldn't care. he was trying to play the part, to truely become a heartless bastard, even though there's still a light in him that keeps telling him not to. it was a point of pride that he used his Elvish heritage for purposes of amassing wealth and power regadless of the harm it brings others. and to that end, he purposely ignores the damage he is causing himself (unless it is direct or nearly-direct physical harm).
of course, his one weakness is always going to be his little girl. even he doesn't feel that he is breaking character in any terrible way to have a heart for his own family.
personally, my reason for voting Elaith however is that he is exactly that kind of ruthless, complex, principled, influential, and most of all iconic character that makes for the most usable and reusable villain in a story. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 10:05:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
In CoS, he struck me as neutral. But then again, even bad guys can play neutral if it suits their interest.
he's definitely not Neutral, however one of the main plot points concerning him is that he has the potential to flip completely from Evil to Good over time under the right circumstances, and he definitely displaysthe occaisional momentary change of heart, or whatever you wanna call it. he's an interesting guy, that's for sure. =w= |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2011 : 08:11:58
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So he's evil with some dose of "shadiness"? That is, he occasionally shows a good heart that readers find it difficult to categorize him as purely evil? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 04:08:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
So he's evil with some dose of "shadiness"? That is, he occasionally shows a good heart that readers find it difficult to categorize him as purely evil?
I'm puzzled, Dennis: Why the interest in Elaith Craulnober?
Elaith Craulnober is an elf. He appears primarily in novels that contain elven characters, themes, and lore. In short, if you don't like elves--and you frequently state that you do not--don't waste your time reading the Songs & Swords series.
I'm not being flippant. Life is too short to read books you're almost certain to dislike.
I don't read every type of fiction, myself. I don't read westerns, for example. I have nothing against them, per se. I'm sure there are some mighty fine westerns out there. I might be missing out. But I can live with that.
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Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 26 Apr 2011 04:15:35 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 05:14:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I sense some interest here, perhaps? A chink in the anti-elf armor, maybe? LOL!!
Almost. Elaith is more like an offshoot. My plan to break my oath not to read elfy novels was first prompted by my desire to know more about Sarya. Speaking of whom, did she actively participate in the battle in The Last Mythal trilogy? Or did she leave all the fun to Malkizid? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3745 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 07:18:56
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I'm puzzled, Dennis: Why the interest in Elaith Craulnober?
-Can't answer for him, but Elaith probably is one of the most dynamic, realistic, relatable characters in the setting (and, of course, in Forgotten Realms literature). As one of dramatis personae in the setting (in terms of us readers, not in the world itself) I don't really ever recall people disliking him. I've heard people say such things about Drizzt, Elminster, Erevis Cale, Storm Silverhand, plenty of other people. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 08:56:04
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heh. Elain, don't knock it so quickly. XD life is short, aye, that's why you shoul take the opportunities to try new things whn you feel a sudden pull. for example, you say you don't like westrns, but I can guaruntee you that Clint Eastwood stars in (and I think directs all) five Westerns that just may blow you away. moving stories, gripping scenes, and some of the most epic lines I've ever heard. happy endings, sad endings, and bittersweet endings.
also, one of my favourite personal lines of Westerns are the Doc Holiday films. what a character, Doc Holiday... there's Clementine, and Gunfight at the O.K. Corrale. there's also Tombstone, but I don't know what number that one is, I'm guessing it's the first or second. I know that Gunfight at the O.K. Corrale is the last one.
of course, then again I could just be biased. XD I love Westerns.
still, if he's got a sudden interest, why assume his hatred of Elves will stick? maybe he'll actually enjoy the Songs & Swords series? Danillo Thann and Arylin Moonblade are interesting characters, as is Khelben. and also that Dwarf girl, I forget her name at the moment... |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Edited by - ChieftainTwilight on 26 Apr 2011 08:56:51 |
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The Greatest Villain Ever
