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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jul 2005 : 14:04:28
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I asked a friend of mine who is an RL Gm, and he says that apparently Vecna wasn't a full blown god when he was thrown into Ravenloft.
I think the way it worked was:
Vecna and Kas piss each other off. Vecna and Kas were powerful demi-gods, but not the full blow stuff
Kas de-eyes and de-hands Vecna
Vecna goes all Keanu on Kas and is about to kill him
They get taken in my mists (oowww, Muffin  )
Vecna and Kas each get their own domain with neutral mountains in between both. (the dark powers gave them a 'Time out'
Vecna finds a way back, but just because he's been a bad boy, the dark powers make him bring Kas along with him.
When Vecna comes back, he has become the god of secrets (and not before)
How true is this? If it is true, maybe it does work that Shar was manipulating Vecna. Maybe Shar liked Vecna, and made her own little god of secrets in Vecna. |
"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2005 : 14:17:01
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quote:
Imagine a god of secrets manipulating the secrets of another god of secrets??? This is devious!
twidles his fingers
That idea is so oozingly good, its giving me cholesterol!
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"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2005 : 17:22:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Luther Cromwell
Maybe Shar liked Vecna, and made her own little god of secrets in Vecna.
I don't see Shar doing this, though. She's not the kind who would willingly share any power; if it was possible for her to be present in Greyspace, she'd be trying to take that portfolio for herself.
I don't see her wanting anything to do with Ravenloft, either. Shar desires oblivion, so messing around with Ravenloft would be kinda pointless. With as difficult as it is to get out of that demiplane, she doesn't have a lot to gain by doing anything there.
Oh, and I believe that deities from different spheres are not allowed to manipulate or work against each other. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Arlenion
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 22:16:25
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| It's not cannon, but Fizban( Zifnab) has influenced Earth in The Death Gate Cycle. The only reason I brought this up was because the series was written by the authors of Dragonlance Chronicle. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 22:35:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Arlenion
It's not cannon, but Fizban( Zifnab) has influenced Earth in The Death Gate Cycle. The only reason I brought this up was because the series was written by the authors of Dragonlance Chronicle.
I wouldn't say he influenced it as much as he was present on Earth. And in the Death's Gate Cycle, he was a Sartan -- not a deity. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2005 : 02:44:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arlenion
It's not cannon, but Fizban( Zifnab) has influenced Earth in The Death Gate Cycle. The only reason I brought this up was because the series was written by the authors of Dragonlance Chronicle.
I wouldn't say he influenced it as much as he was present on Earth. And in the Death's Gate Cycle, he was a Sartan -- not a deity.
And to add to the apparent confusion between Tracy's alter egos, Fizban even once alluded to the possibility that he, as Paladine, came from another realm where he was nothing more than an extremely divine mortal -- perhaps a connection between Zifnab and Fizban is more a reality than we actually realise.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 03:04:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Is this canon? I've never heard it before. In fact, I just this day saw the term "baernaloth" for the first time.
*invokes a great spell of off-topic thread'omancy*
I'm reminded of a little something involving the Baern and Ravenloft I read recently http://greyhawkonline.com/pitsofevil/viewtopic.php?t=5786
Personally I wouldn't have them (directly) involved with the Demiplane of Dread, but I've used something akin to that idea with them creating a demiplane to stock with trapped petitioners whose memory they created from whole cloth and varied at whim in order to create entire worlds and cultures and see what happened to the antfarm, so to speak, when they shook it. A nice little couple thousand mile wide sphere of black glass nestled in the negative energy plane called 'Eternity's Doorstep'.
I've written a number of short stories involving the Baernaloths http://greyhawkonline.com/pitsofevil/viewtopic.php?t=3160, http://greyhawkonline.com/pitsofevil/viewtopic.php?t=4913, http://greyhawkonline.com/pitsofevil/viewtopic.php?t=5790, and about five or so others in a series I've been working on in my spare time. A cabal of them, including all of those in the stories, have been antagonists in the background of my campaigns/storyhour at various points. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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Adam_Garou
Acolyte
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 17:22:50
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Well met, indeed, Master Moderator. 
*bows and notes the +5 staff of the irritated moderator Alaundo is beginning to tap menacingly against his palm*
Being new to these forums (but a longtime lurker and poster in the Ravenloft message boards at www.kargatane.com and www.fraternityofshadows.com), I'd like to take a moment to throw some support behind the idea that the Dark Powers are attempting to "build a better yugoloth". I'm not sure I totally agree with the concept as it stands, but something similar might make sense.
The Dark Powers seem primarily interested in the corruption of individuals--in getting them to choose their own doom and forge the chains of their own damnation. Many of the folk of the Realms have been brought into the Lands of Mists seemingly for that purpose alone. Others have been brought in because they will assist in the downfall/torment of another (torment is generally focused on the Darklords themselves), and still others are brought in for no apparent reason at all (right-place/right-time).
This could mean that the progenitors of the tanar'ri or the baatezu could also be in charge of the Dark Powers, attempting to build a better demon or devil. That is, maybe pulling individuals into the Demiplane of Dread is mainly a chaotic and impulsive process, or maybe it's subject to particular laws and orders so vast that we mere mortals simply have trouble distinguishing them.
Does it make for a "higher quality" demon/devil/yugoloth if the individual freely chose damnation of his own will? I think it's a possibility, but keep in mind that we'll never really know. The Dark Powers will never be formally defined (especially now that the rights to the Ravenloft setting have reverted back from ArtHaus to WotC and the setting has once again gone out of print), because they're supposed to be whatever the DM needs them to be.
That means it's all theory. Fun-to-discuss theory, but theory nonetheless. |
"If we do happen to make contact (with the enemy), I expect nothing less than gratuitous violence from the lot of you."
--Sgt. Harry Wells, DOG SOLDIERS-- |
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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 03:29:41
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quote:
Being new to these forums (but a longtime lurker and poster in the Ravenloft message boards at www.kargatane.com and www.fraternityofshadows.com), I'd like to take a moment to throw some support behind the idea that the Dark Powers are attempting to "build a better yugoloth". I'm not sure I totally agree with the concept as it stands, but something similar might make sense
If you get a chance, be sure to say hi to the Stygiant Inquirer (guy who wrote the Masque of the Red death character sheet) for me.
And wow, I honestly thought that this (my first scroll on candlekeep) had long seen its wax seel.
Ya Ravenloft definatetly left A LOT open for interpretation. For all we know, the dark powers could just be an endless room of monkies with type writers, tryinig to produce the ultimate evil. It could even be a group of dogs playing poker at a table.
In relavence back to the topic. Having studied the realms more, and having done some reading on the core fundamentals of RL (when I made this thread, my DM kept enough info from me to not let me know exactly WHAT the dark powers were), I see how out stretched the original theory of Ravenloft and FR being so closely tied was. This simply shows that it pays to do your research.
Ravenloft's interest in FR people very much sparks from the fact that RL inhabitants would probably find Faerun to be a...well...'wuss realm'. It's one thing to take your average man and turn him evil, its another to corrupt something incredibly that was once good. Hence why Black Guards are more powerful when they used to be paladins.
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"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
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Arilou
Acolyte
Sweden
11 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 19:14:08
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quote:
(right-place/right-time).
Sure (as this is Ravenloft we are talking about) it must be the WRONG place/time :p |
"Det sägs att ovan molnen är himlen alltid blå.
Men det kan vara svårt att tro när man inte ser det.
Och det sägs att efter regnet kommer solen fram igen.
Men det hjälper sällan dem som har blivit våta.
För när vännerna försvinner.
Eller kärleken tar slut.
Ser man allt med lite andra ögon.
Man övar sig och långsamt blir man bättre på att se.
Skillnad mellan sanningar och lögner." |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2005 : 01:49:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Arilou
quote:
(right-place/right-time).
Sure (as this is Ravenloft we are talking about) it must be the WRONG place/time :p
No mortal can ever truly understand the desires of the Mists!
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Forgotten Realms and Ravenloft.
Dragonlance? Greyhawk?! My word, I believe not what I am seeing 