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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jul 2005 : 17:20:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I was going off the old Grey box set that says Elminster is around 800 years old
In any case if Bane where to pull the "Chosen life support" all of Mystras chosen would die (possiably with excpetion of Sylune as shes Undead)
I'm not sure he could do that. Their power is part of her essence. As we saw with Baneliches while Bane was dead, a deity can be gone and their portfolio in someone else's hands without affecting remaining bits of that divine essence.
Another example of this is that imprisoned bit of Moander in the Darkwatch.
A similar example is Myrkul and the bit of his essence he stuck in the Crown of Horns. He's not dead, but he's lost his portfolio. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 12 Jul 2005 17:23:12 |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2005 : 19:43:45
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Regardless of who holds the protfolio, things would not change much at all. Ao will step in and make sure that whomever runs the portfolio does not upset the status quo. And he would have the full backing of just about all of the rest of the pantheon. Magic is too important, hence the requirement for Chosen. No deity could successfully play Tyrant of Magic. Not for long, anyways.  |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2005 : 22:34:33
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| Indeed. Bane would either have to drop a couple portfolios, pledge neutrality in regards to magic use, or wind up as one of three deities of magic, like what Krynn has. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2005 : 23:23:25
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It didnt stop Mystra 1.0 from pulling Sammasters chosen status
So Id say a god pull chosen status when ever they want.
The Bane Liches and Crown Horns arent chosen, they stored their gods power because the god choose to retreat there |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 00:48:38
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Ed of the Greenwood saith:
Mystra sacrificed some of her power forever (losing Sammaster’s portion of her essence) when she acted against Sammaster.
It’s against Bane’s essential nature to relinquish anything, and the sacrifice is not a choice available to him: he CAN’T “seize” the portions of Mystra’s essence within each Chosen, or strip them of their Chosen status.
He can destroy them, in direct combat, if he manages to catch them in the right situation.
However, note that “right situation” phrase. All of the present Chosen are well-versed in the Weave, and can “flee through it.” If Bane tries to hunt them down and destroy them through the Weave, he’ll do so much damage to it and to his own control over magic that it will rapidly become apparent to him just how much “not worth it” destroying any of the Chosen is.
And as Melfius has quite properly pointed out, neither Ao nor any of the other gods of Faerûn would allow any “Tyrant of the Weave” to exist. Bane can’t stand for long against any two greater deities, let alone any more numerous combination of them.
Asgetrion is correct in saying that Bane would try to become a Tyrant over the Weave, controlling it absolutely; his essential nature forces him to do so.
Shadovar, Bane cannot succeed in becoming Tyrant of the Weave. The Chosen won’t accept him, and he can’t remove their powers. He can destroy them, if he attempts their destructions in the right manner. Azuth will resist him utterly (he’s god of spellcasters who achieve mastery over magic through their experimentations and research, and can’t accept a tyrant who would end or attempt to control that process) but “rebel” is the wrong word, because Bane won’t be “the new god of magic.”
Dargoth, the Chosen are linked to the Weave. They can die as mortal bodies, and they can be destroyed, but if they have the opportunity to “sink into the Weave,” they can all become as Syluné and now Shandril are: “spirits” of the Weave.
So saith Ed. Not that Bane eliminating Mystra tomorrow is likely. He’s been burned with the previous Mystra, and prefers to dominate daily life in human societies in the Realms, where he can exult in being a tyrant.
However, when I put this to Ed, he e-twinkled and replied: “Remember how I keep reminding you there are secrets about the gods I haven’t divulged yet, and can’t just yet? Let’s just say most of these discussions about what god could or would do what to which other god are just what they tend to be in the real world: so many futile words exchanged between mortals who can never know the truth. Now, back to home sweet mud hut and let’s all have dinner.”
So there you have it: Ed’s take on the matter.
love to all,
THO
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 02:16:46
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Ok if thats the case
Would that mean that Any chosen of deity who dies would keep their powers?
So if Bhaal, Mykrul and Leira had chosen before they died then these same Chosen would still have their powers after after there gods died?
If so cool Ive got an idea for an NPC "Former" Chosen of Leira |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 02:22:48
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It would likely work if in your Realms all of the Chosen work like Mystra's. I am still of the opinion that the term Chosen is used for a lot of godly servants that aren't servants in the "Chosen of Mystra" sense, but rather have some extra powers granted to them becuase their god wants them to have some "extra umph" to perform this or that mission, which would not be the same as them giving up part of their essense to bond with their Chosen (as THO pointed out, Bane by his nature couldn't give of himself to make Fzoul "part" of him).
Still, if that is how you run things, Leira most likely has a better shot at giving of herself to create a Mystra like chosen than Bane does. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 04:00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Ok if thats the case
Would that mean that Any chosen of deity who dies would keep their powers?
So if Bhaal, Mykrul and Leira had chosen before they died then these same Chosen would still have their powers after after there gods died?
If so cool Ive got an idea for an NPC "Former" Chosen of Leira
Well, as I pointed out, we had little pieces of Bane around while he wasn't. I can't see any reason why a dead deity can't have something like a Chosen still hanging out. Heck, Shuruppak is still a force to be reckoned with... |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 05:12:24
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Surely If Bane ascends as the next God Of Magic, he will definitely has to submit to the demands and the will of Lord Ao. I think Lord Ao will force Bane to accept some changes so as to maintain the Balance and ensure Bane's power and even Bane himself would never be a great threat to the Balance, the other deities and Ao himself like what happened to Mystra where Her Chosen were appointed to "store away" some of her powers.
Still, I think Ao would not allow Bane to remove the powers of the current Chosen, as imagine what happens if the power falls into insidious folk like Sammaster. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Sir Vengeance
Acolyte
42 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 06:20:38
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So will this war between Mystra and Bane going to happen? It seems their hatred of each other going to boil over soon. |
Vengeance is justified on righteous grounds, for righteous vengeance cannot be denied by anybody. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 06:22:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Still, I think Ao would not allow Bane to remove the powers of the current Chosen, as imagine what happens if the power falls into insidious folk like Sammaster.
Well, as it's been stated, Bane couldn't. Even Mystra has a hard time taking her power back from her Chosen. To quote the lovely Lady Hooded One:
quote:
Ed’s reply does indeed “imply that once a being becomes a Chosen, Mystra can't reclaim from that person her own essence.” You point out that “that's exactly what is described as having happened to Sammaster: thru Azuth, Mystra's essence was removed from Sammaster.”
EXACTLY. Sammaster’s silver fire was taken through the actions of Azuth, another deity.
Mystra can forcibly wrest her divine essence (the silver fire) directly from a mortal, but in doing so loses it forever, weakening herself (it does not ‘find its way back to her’ in the normal way, but is GONE). So she won’t do it.
That doesn’t stop Azuth, working with her, from doing it (she’d probably fight any other deity trying it on a mortal located on Toril, and win by using the Weave against them).
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 06:30:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Vengeance
So will this war between Mystra and Bane going to happen? It seems their hatred of each other going to boil over soon.
This may mean Banites and Mytra's followers going to war against each other as well. But one way to eliminate the other deity is to kill the deity followers and weaken the deity. But such a war between Mystra and Bane would be interesting to watch. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Antareana
Seeker
Germany
59 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2005 : 16:01:23
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Hm, hm, good to know, dear Lady Hooded 
so we need to look at the "small" differences between the "chosen" of each deity. Since Ed said that Bane wouldn't give away parts of his essence (and I can easily understand why ) , that would make Fzoul more a "special favored" of Bane. But then there is the question which "chosen" are like Mystra's and which more like Bane's. Difficult matter...
and regarding bane taking over Mystra's portfolio... would he really want it? having to act like he would never want to (i.e. giving magic away freely, working in the weave all the time, risking Aos "anger" if he doesn't do so, having to get along with the chosen, accepting the balance of magic) wouldn't it be too much a burden? Wouldn't it either destroy Bane's Tyrant-mind or his believability? Sure, it is a great amount of power, but at which price?
Just my thoughts ^^ |
It is all just a past and future secret
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 01:17:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Antareana
Hm, hm, good to know, dear Lady Hooded
so we need to look at the "small" differences between the "chosen" of each deity. Since Ed said that Bane wouldn't give away parts of his essence (and I can easily understand why ) , that would make Fzoul more a "special favored" of Bane. But then there is the question which "chosen" are like Mystra's and which more like Bane's. Difficult matter...
and regarding bane taking over Mystra's portfolio... would he really want it? having to act like he would never want to (i.e. giving magic away freely, working in the weave all the time, risking Aos "anger" if he doesn't do so, having to get along with the chosen, accepting the balance of magic) wouldn't it be too much a burden? Wouldn't it either destroy Bane's Tyrant-mind or his believability? Sure, it is a great amount of power, but at which price?
Just my thoughts ^^
I suspect Bane will work to twist the rules placed upon him to his favor while pretending to follow Ao orders. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 01:22:06
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| Wait, pardon my asking, if Bane takes over Mystra's place, then will this event be in favor of Shar? Afterall, Shar had been planning to go to war against Mystra but if Bane takes over Mystra's portfolio, will Shar plan peace with Bane or go ahead with her war plans against the new God of Magic? |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 02:23:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Wait, pardon my asking, if Bane takes over Mystra's place, then will this event be in favor of Shar? Afterall, Shar had been planning to go to war against Mystra but if Bane takes over Mystra's portfolio, will Shar plan peace with Bane or go ahead with her war plans against the new God of Magic?
It depends... She might go to war immediately (a shadow war, if you will, followers versus followers), or she might ally with him to take out some other deities before turning on him. Keep in mind that Shar's ultimate goal is the destruction of everything -- which will include both magic and everything that Bane wants to be tyrant over. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 05:54:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It depends... She might go to war immediately (a shadow war, if you will, followers versus followers), or she might ally with him to take out some other deities before turning on him. Keep in mind that Shar's ultimate goal is the destruction of everything -- which will include both magic and everything that Bane wants to be tyrant over.
So it seems that there might be an alliance of convenience between Bane and Shar or war between them two. Still....I wonder will Bane be aware of the threat Shar and her goals posed to him and his long term plans if he assumes Mystra's portfolio, will he immediately wage war or sit and wait to see how the situation goes. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
Edited by - Shadovar on 15 Jul 2005 05:56:22 |
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FreezeChaser
Acolyte
19 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 06:45:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It depends... She might go to war immediately (a shadow war, if you will, followers versus followers), or she might ally with him to take out some other deities before turning on him. Keep in mind that Shar's ultimate goal is the destruction of everything -- which will include both magic and everything that Bane wants to be tyrant over.
So it seems that there might be an alliance of convenience between Bane and Shar or war between them two. Still....I wonder will Bane be aware of the threat Shar and her goals posed to him and his long term plans if he assumes Mystra's portfolio, will he immediately wage war or sit and wait to see how the situation goes.
If Bane is smart enough, he will sure be aware of Shar's long term plans as after all they are in the same pantheon. Still, Bane is likely to preach and gain more followers to strengthen himself and also strengthen his followers for war with Shar and her followers. So we can expect a fight between the Banites of the Zhentarim(if they are any still following Bane)and the worshippers of Shar such as the Shadovar and her sorcerer monks followers. |
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Tylas
Acolyte
11 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 06:49:27
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quote:
Originally posted by FreezeChaser
If Bane is smart enough, he will sure be aware of Shar's long term plans as after all they are in the same pantheon. Still, Bane is likely to preach and gain more followers to strengthen himself and also strengthen his followers for war with Shar and her followers. So we can expect a fight between the Banites of the Zhentarim(if they are any still following Bane)and the worshippers of Shar such as the Shadovar and her sorcerer monks followers.
So it appears that the Shadovar and Shar followers have an inexhaustible supply of enemies to fight- such as the Selunites, Mystra followers, Harpers, anybody who is anti-Shar and now Banites adding in to the list of foes. |
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silvermage
Seeker
77 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 06:53:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Tylas
quote:
Originally posted by FreezeChaser
If Bane is smart enough, he will sure be aware of Shar's long term plans as after all they are in the same pantheon. Still, Bane is likely to preach and gain more followers to strengthen himself and also strengthen his followers for war with Shar and her followers. So we can expect a fight between the Banites of the Zhentarim(if they are any still following Bane)and the worshippers of Shar such as the Shadovar and her sorcerer monks followers.
So it appears that the Shadovar and Shar followers have an inexhaustible supply of enemies to fight- such as the Selunites, Mystra followers, Harpers, anybody who is anti-Shar and now Banites adding in to the list of foes.
Because of Shar's ideals and dogma, that's why Shar and her followers are that unpopular in the Realms. |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 11:37:52
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Sorry but I think I may have missed something  .
I thought I was pretty up to date with the current lore but I have heard nothing about a conflict between Bane and Mystra until this thread. I know they don't exactly like each other, I mean really, who does Bane really get along with?
Has it been mentioned in a Novel or Sourcebook that the two deities are ready to square off? |
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Bane and Mystra
