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SomeDude
Acolyte
USA
23 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 03:56:58
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I never did understand what power a person gained over a mage by knowing their true name. Also, is that something that just got dropped from 3.x or is their actually a story behind why Ao or Mystra or whoever desided that a wizards true name was no longer important. Lastly, did Cyric get the shot end of that stick or what, what with knowing Mystra's true name -- or is that why she changed that little rule of magic?
I hope I'm not bringing up a long dead topic or anything, if theirs a like to this same topic somewhere that I missed that would save a lot of people a lot of typing I would be happy with that.
Thanks in advance.
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This is the highest my post count has ever been. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 04:10:21
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Not sure if a long dead topic as far as that goes.
However true name having power has existed in the game and in various real world belief systems for years.
3.x was a major rewrite of D&D and I certainly do not know all the reasons for the changes.
As to other questions I think Cyric got too much as it is *wink* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 04:30:11
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There was a Dragon article about a year ago that had some 3rd edition benefits for True Names, mainly increasing your caster level over someone that you have that particular advantage over.
While not a true name per se, according to the first book of the ROTAW knowing a subjects commonly used name and naming them in a spell makes the spell more potent.
For the second effect, I would think that one could develop a feat that might reflect a minor benefit for working in a character's common appelation into a spell. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 07:44:49
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I think that most wizards take precaution by having protection spells, contingencies, etc on them over this kind of domination. It's kind of like how wizards have mind shields to prevent someone from reading their mind or stealing their memories.
It's not exactly easy to use magic in this type of way to charm or control someone. So often one who can cast such spells would have enemies that are way too powerful and protected for such a ploy, or enemies that are so weak that this type of spells aren't even needed. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 18:32:15
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| Are there several different kinds of Truenames? In HOTU true names aren`t like in that article. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 20:42:15
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Are there several different kinds of Truenames? In HOTU true names aren`t like in that article.
There certainly can be different types of Truenames.
Jioning any order part of initiation might confer a true name known only to the order and not used outside the order. As already indicate a Truename certainly can be used to control or summon (the reason Demons try to hide their Truenames).
I do see it posible, though unlikely, that some characters could have two different Truenames. Even if belonging to different clubs/orgs the odds are that the Truename serving as an identifier would be the same in meaning (even if actual name is based on different languages). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 04:38:35
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
There was a Dragon article about a year ago that had some 3rd edition benefits for True Names, mainly increasing your caster level over someone that you have that particular advantage over.
While not a true name per se, according to the first book of the ROTAW knowing a subjects commonly used name and naming them in a spell makes the spell more potent.
For the second effect, I would think that one could develop a feat that might reflect a minor benefit for working in a character's common appelation into a spell.
Will someone please supply the issue number and date for the Dragon with this article? |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 04:58:40
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quote:
Originally posted by SomeDude
I never did understand what power a person gained over a mage by knowing their true name.
Thanks in advance.
Read the non-Realmsian Earthsea trilogy for what may be the best explanation of True Names and their significance.
The idea that knowing something or someone's True Name gives one power over it is very ancient. Note that Adam names all of the animals; this makes him -- effectively -- ruler of Creation, in contradistinction to the angelic hosts, who, as Paradise Lost and many D20 supplements about Baator tell us, became a tad upset and decided to rebel against the Creator for permitting a mortal to have such power and authority.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 13:50:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Read the non-Realmsian Earthsea trilogy for what may be the best explanation of True Names and their significance.
Monte Cook's gaming book, Arcana Unearthed touches upon true names some. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 14:00:50
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Read the non-Realmsian Earthsea trilogy for what may be the best explanation of True Names and their significance.
Monte Cook's gaming book, Arcana Unearthed touches upon true names some.
For those scribes without access to Arcana Unearthed, try here:- http://www.montecook.com/images/Quick_Reference_Guide.rtf
Just scroll down to "New Core Concepts" for some brief details on True Names in the Diamond Throne setting.
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 16:46:27
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Ed said this many years ago:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/ed-truenames.htm |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
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Rocheval
Acolyte
21 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 18:49:07
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| Sorry to bump this thread but I was hoping a newbie like me could contribute something. Truenames have probably been done away with in the 'new' realms but of the old material I think I remember the Simbul and Elminster exchanging true names in the Spellfire novel (not sure if they were the truenames were the ones that have the power to bind) and I think also in that novel Elminster said he knew Manshoon's true name. I believe also in Crown of Fire a truename was used to control the demilich/lichlord? Also one of the mages of the Flaming Fist has a spiritwrack scroll with Demogorgon's true name on it. Any other mention of truenames in FR material just for interests sake? |
"I will vanish into the night; change my body to wood or stone; sink into the earth and walk through locked doors. I will be killed many times, yet will not die" excerpt from Ninja No Chigri (Way of the Tiger series) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2005 : 05:42:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Rocheval
Any other mention of truenames in FR material just for interests sake?
Volo's Guide to All Things Magical.
And the Seven Sisters. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 01:04:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Rocheval
Truenames have probably been done away with in the 'new' realms...
What makes you think so? |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 01:12:31
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| I do think that if someone applied themselves to the task, a series of feats might make the whole "truename" issue a more attractive one to approach. One of the big issues I think 1st and 2nd Edition had was to assume that any wizard with a truename could do something with it. I think a feat tree of somekind showing that someone has learned to utilize the power of the truename is exactly the type of thing that the 3rd/3.5 edition game mechanic is good for. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 01:36:15
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I do think that if someone applied themselves to the task, a series of feats might make the whole "truename" issue a more attractive one to approach. One of the big issues I think 1st and 2nd Edition had was to assume that any wizard with a truename could do something with it. I think a feat tree of somekind showing that someone has learned to utilize the power of the truename is exactly the type of thing that the 3rd/3.5 edition game mechanic is good for.
That book of good that WOTC made for the mature line has rules for true names if I recall right. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 02:05:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I do think that if someone applied themselves to the task, a series of feats might make the whole "truename" issue a more attractive one to approach. One of the big issues I think 1st and 2nd Edition had was to assume that any wizard with a truename could do something with it. I think a feat tree of somekind showing that someone has learned to utilize the power of the truename is exactly the type of thing that the 3rd/3.5 edition game mechanic is good for.
That book of good that WOTC made for the mature line has rules for true names if I recall right. :)
The Book of Exalted Deeds. Yes, there's a small section on truenames.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 02:08:57
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I do think that if someone applied themselves to the task, a series of feats might make the whole "truename" issue a more attractive one to approach. One of the big issues I think 1st and 2nd Edition had was to assume that any wizard with a truename could do something with it. I think a feat tree of somekind showing that someone has learned to utilize the power of the truename is exactly the type of thing that the 3rd/3.5 edition game mechanic is good for.
That book of good that WOTC made for the mature line has rules for true names if I recall right. :)
The Book of Exalted Deeds. Yes, there's a small section on truenames.
Yeah that book. I brain farted on the name and I didn't feel like crossing the room to look it up. Yeah I'm being lazy, sue me. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 02:51:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Yeah that book. I brain farted on the name and I didn't feel like crossing the room to look it up. Yeah I'm being lazy, sue me. :)
Ooh, okay! How much are you worth?   |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 02:52:39
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| Should we be getting ahold of George over this? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 03:02:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Yeah that book. I brain farted on the name and I didn't feel like crossing the room to look it up. Yeah I'm being lazy, sue me. :)
Ooh, okay! How much are you worth?
If you want 2,000 or so sourcebooks, novels, and other printed meterial, that's how much I'm worth. :) How much that adds up to in dollars, I have no idea but it's gotta be over 5,000. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 11 Jul 2005 03:02:53 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 05:27:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Yeah that book. I brain farted on the name and I didn't feel like crossing the room to look it up. Yeah I'm being lazy, sue me. :)
Ooh, okay! How much are you worth?
If you want 2,000 or so sourcebooks, novels, and other printed meterial, that's how much I'm worth. :) How much that adds up to in dollars, I have no idea but it's gotta be over 5,000.
Bah!
I don't want something that I've already got .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 05:34:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Yeah that book. I brain farted on the name and I didn't feel like crossing the room to look it up. Yeah I'm being lazy, sue me. :)
Ooh, okay! How much are you worth?
If you want 2,000 or so sourcebooks, novels, and other printed meterial, that's how much I'm worth. :) How much that adds up to in dollars, I have no idea but it's gotta be over 5,000.
Bah!
I don't want something that I've already got .
Oh, I don't know... My collection has still got a way to go until it's complete. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 05:37:59
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Yeah that book. I brain farted on the name and I didn't feel like crossing the room to look it up. Yeah I'm being lazy, sue me. :)
Ooh, okay! How much are you worth?
If you want 2,000 or so sourcebooks, novels, and other printed meterial, that's how much I'm worth. :) How much that adds up to in dollars, I have no idea but it's gotta be over 5,000.
Bah!
I don't want something that I've already got .
Who said all those were d&d sourcebooks and novels. :) I know I didn't. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 05:39:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, I don't know... My collection has still got a way to go until it's complete.
Not me .
Thanks to Kuje's suggestion about using Noble Knight, I managed to pick up the last ever FR accessory I had previously been missing -- Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate II.
Oh, and I'm missing about three FR Dungeon adventures...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 05:42:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Who said all those were d&d sourcebooks and novels. :) I know I didn't. :)
Oh, I'd just assumed you were keeping within the context of D&D and FR  .
Regardless, we should really get back on topic here...  .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2005 : 06:52:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Rocheval
Sorry to bump this thread but I was hoping a newbie like me could contribute something. Truenames have probably been done away with in the 'new' realms but of the old material I think I remember the Simbul and Elminster exchanging true names in the Spellfire novel (not sure if they were the truenames were the ones that have the power to bind) and I think also in that novel Elminster said he knew Manshoon's true name. I believe also in Crown of Fire a truename was used to control the demilich/lichlord? Also one of the mages of the Flaming Fist has a spiritwrack scroll with Demogorgon's true name on it. Any other mention of truenames in FR material just for interests sake?
In The Coral Kingdom, Talos gave Princess Deirdre the name of his avatar, Coss-Axel-Sinioth, so she could destroy him as punishment for his failures. |
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Wizards and their true names
