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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Feb 2007 : 15:36:45
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quote:
Originally posted by initiate
the incomparable Erik Scott de Bie
That, I expect, owing mostly to the fact that I'm so gods-damned tall (6'6.6").
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(who's novel "Ghostwalker" is brilliant and should be read by all)
Aw shucks. 
Glad you think so!
Cheers
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Also, the idea of stories based on whole parties of adventurers is absolute genius. A real focus could be put on character interplay, and the diverse personalities which make up those adventuring groups whose deeds are, or may be, sung down the ages.
Huh. Funny you should say that. 
I happen to *really like* those sort of stories.
Which might be why Depths is like that.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2007 : 16:24:32
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| I actually like Erik's idea on aspects like "Champions of Nature" which natuurally stems from the upcoming Dungeons series sort of |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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initiate
Learned Scribe
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2007 : 17:15:02
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Erik Scott de Bie Wrote:
Huh. Funny you should say that.
I happen to really like those sort of stories.
Which might be why Depths is like that.
Splendid news! Of course I never doubted that there would be character interplay, but the sample prologue up for download at Wizards got me wondering whether Twilight might be operating more or less alone for part of the book.
Speaking of the prologue, (and apologies for taking this scroll wildly off topic; I shall be brief), looks great! While writing this post I spent a while scribbling down observations on the prologue and then deleting them as off topic, so I'll leave it at that general statement. Hoping to find a copy so that I can join in the book club next month.
I suppose that a series like "The Dungeons" benefits from the freedom to focus on multiple characters and aspects of the Realms almost as much as would a "The Travellers" or "The Adventurers", or whatever it might be called. The only exception, I'd imagine, is location, since the dungeon is theoretically the focus and the dungeon can't walk, (unless, of course, it can. What an abominable notion!)
MerikCale Wrote:
I actually like Erik's idea on "Champions of Nature" which naturally stems from the upcoming Dungeons series sort of.
Aye. This would be interesting too. I'd say that the great thing about the stand-alone series is that their topics are usually broad enough to incorporate any story an author might want to tell, (with exceptions, of course.) That's why I don't think a "The Dragon Shamans", for example, would be quite as much fun, as there seem to be more restrictive elements to the class. But something like "Champions of Nature" would be great. It could include multiple classes, and cover very different areas all the way from things like the High Forest to the deserts of Calimshan; (some druids like sand, I'm sure.)
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2007 : 19:02:50
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quote:
Originally posted by initiate
Erik Scott de Bie Wrote:
Splendid news! Of course I never doubted that there would be character interplay, but the sample prologue up for download at Wizards got me wondering whether Twilight might be operating more or less alone for part of the book.
Oh. Oh no. Sure, I kill off her party members like bugs, but she meets more and more people . . . for me to squish. 
quote:
Speaking of the prologue, (and apologies for taking this scroll wildly off topic; I shall be brief), looks great! While writing this post I spent a while scribbling down observations on the prologue and then deleting them as off topic, so I'll leave it at that general statement. Hoping to find a copy so that I can join in the book club next month.
We can always chat in My Thread or in this one, which seems to be dedicated to the topic as well.
And I look forward to that book club! 
quote:
The only exception, I'd imagine, is location, since the dungeon is theoretically the focus and the dungeon can't walk, (unless, of course, it can. What an abominable notion!)
Baba Yaga?
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the deserts of Calimshan; (some druids like sand, I'm sure.)
And I did once play a desert druid. This was an elf in Dark Sun, mind . . . Ah! Alaundo's Otherworldly Staff!
[run]
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2007 : 23:15:06
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| I like the idea of a desert druid--deserts are not only a part of nature, but they have their own denizens just like just about every other clime. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2007 : 23:42:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I like the idea of a desert druid--deserts are not only a part of nature, but they have their own denizens just like just about every other clime.
It is a neat idea. When you think about cultures in such harsh climes, they would I would think gravitate towards "nature" or "Nature controlling" magic. Artic environs would be this way as well I would think |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2007 : 23:59:23
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| The old 2nd Edition Druid's Handbook allowd for druids of multiple environments. I believe there were also aquatic druids, jungle druids, mountain druids, plains druids, swamp druids, and possibly a couple of others. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2007 : 02:17:39
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| I liked the urban druid that was in Dragon a year or two ago... I believe it's also in the Dragon Compendium. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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initiate
Learned Scribe
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2007 : 05:13:20
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MerrikCale Wrote:
It is a neat idea. When you think about cultures in such harsh climes, they would I would think gravitate towards "nature" or "nature controlling" magic. Artic environments would be this way as well I would think.
Indeed. As you say, it seems logical that societies dwelling in extreme environmental conditions would pay more direct heed to nature on a daily basis, both because it'll smack them around if they don't, and because its raw power is drawn to their attention more often.
The ideas for an alternate environment druid character you're all talking about here are really intriguing. Must go make a character...
An urban druid? I think I've heard of it before, but I'm not entirely clear as to how it might work.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2007 : 18:57:52
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quote:
Originally posted by initiate
An urban druid? I think I've heard of it before, but I'm not entirely clear as to how it might work.
No city ever pushes nature entirely out (in spite of what might be desired), and let's face it--humans are a part of nature. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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J D Dunsany
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
180 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2007 : 15:50:24
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I like the following ideas a lot:
Adventuring companies. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on Ed Greenwood's 'Knights of Myth Drannor' books precisely because he does inter-party banter better than any other author I've read. It feels like friends sitting round a game table having a laugh. So, any books that feature that kind of interplay are fine by me. Plus, you can do all sorts of exciting things with strategy in combat, emotional entanglements etc. Heck, you can even have them argue over loot. (Hmmm... Maybe that's just in the games I DM.)
Druids. Are intrinsically cool and insanely powerful at a certain level. They're also one of the better things about the Moonshae books. Could I handle a whole series about them? Yes, but the key here, as has already been mentioned, is variety of environment. By all means go for the leaf-in-hair, smells-of-earth and is-that-a-mole-in-your-pocket-or-are-you-just-pleased-to-see-me variety, but spice it up with urban druids (a la Jack Hawksmoor from 'The Authority' comics), desert druids, ice druids, underground druids etc. Yes, I'd be interested in reading about them.
Commoners. Everyday folk caught up in the events of adventurers around them. This might work better as an anthology actually, but I've always loved stories that have a slightly off-beat or quirky perspective and this is a good opportunity for those. To be fair, we've already had some of this - Merrow in 'Black Wolf' springs to mind, for example - but we could certainly have more.
More generally, I'd like to see a little bit more of what I suppose you could call the 'bildungsroman', tracing a character from relatively low-level up to higher. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is 'Elminster: The Making of A Mage' where Ed takes us through Elminster's early life (and what an eventful one it is too) and he goes through a couple of different character classes in the process. The idea of multi-classers being a focus of a novel series was mentioned earlier on and this is probably the best way to go about it. It's a fairly traditional way of storytelling, but one not overly employed in the Realms. I think it'd make a nice change of pace.
Right, that's me done for now.
Best!
JDD
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"How content that young woman looks, don't you think? How content, and yet how flammable." - Lemony Snicket, The Unauthorized Autobiography |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2007 : 16:43:35
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| Hawksmoor as an urban druid... I'd never looked at him that way! He always was one of my fave comic book characters, though I've long since gotten out of comics (and I bailed on Authority shortly after Warren Ellis quit doing it). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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J D Dunsany
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
180 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2007 : 17:42:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Hawksmoor as an urban druid... I'd never looked at him that way! He always was one of my fave comic book characters, though I've long since gotten out of comics (and I bailed on Authority shortly after Warren Ellis quit doing it).
Me too funnily enough - Mark Millar didn't quite do it for me after Ellis left.
As to Hawksmoor, well, yeah - you can call him an urban druid (and I'm not the first person to make that connection either - if I can remember who it was and where I first heard it, I'd give appropriate credit) - he talks to buildings, for crying out loud. (And they talk back too!  )
An FR character who viewed the city he/she lived in as a living single entity, who could track someone through the trash in an alley or a misplaced shingle on a nearby roof, who communed with the soul of the city in the same way that more conventional druids communed with nature - now, that would be cool!  (Not sure how it'd work in game terms...)
I think I'm right in saying that Ellis got the name (and broad idea) from Peter Ackroyd's novel 'Hawksmoor' which traces the connections between Nicholas Hawksmoor's 17th century London churches and a series of contemporary murders. The novel's dense stuff and pretty hard going, but, imho, worth the effort.
Anyway, I've not so much wandered off-topic as sprinted full pelt, so apologies to any mods moderating and... let's get back to talking about the Realms... |
"How content that young woman looks, don't you think? How content, and yet how flammable." - Lemony Snicket, The Unauthorized Autobiography |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2007 : 20:44:56
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quote:
Originally posted by J D Dunsany
Commoners. Everyday folk caught up in the events of adventurers around them. This might work better as an anthology actually, but I've always loved stories that have a slightly off-beat or quirky perspective and this is a good opportunity for those. To be fair, we've already had some of this - Merrow in 'Black Wolf' springs to mind, for example - but we could certainly have more.
I agree, although I don't think Merrow is the best example of such--I think prefer something more along the line of City of Splendors: A Novel of Waterdeep.
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More generally, I'd like to see a little bit more of what I suppose you could call the 'bildungsroman', tracing a character from relatively low-level up to higher. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is 'Elminster: The Making of A Mage' where Ed takes us through Elminster's early life (and what an eventful one it is too) and he goes through a couple of different character classes in the process. The idea of multi-classers being a focus of a novel series was mentioned earlier on and this is probably the best way to go about it. It's a fairly traditional way of storytelling, but one not overly employed in the Realms. I think it'd make a nice change of pace.
I find it a little ironic that a coming of age story would be considered a "change of pace", since so many fantasy novels (if not as many Realms novels) follow this formula.
Anyway, I just finished The Shadow Stone, and that novel definitely qualifies as a coming of age story, containing most of the familiar elements and excising some of the more eye-rolling ones (like the obligatory romance). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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J D Dunsany
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
180 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2007 : 21:12:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by J D Dunsany
Commoners. Everyday folk caught up in the events of adventurers around them. This might work better as an anthology actually, but I've always loved stories that have a slightly off-beat or quirky perspective and this is a good opportunity for those. To be fair, we've already had some of this - Merrow in 'Black Wolf' springs to mind, for example - but we could certainly have more.
I agree, although I don't think Merrow is the best example of such--I think prefer something more along the line of City of Splendors: A Novel of Waterdeep.
Unfortunately, City of Splendors is still on my ever-growing pile of books to read, but I'm sure you're right. And, no, Merrow's involvement in the events of 'Black Wolf' maybe don't make him the best example, but it was that feeling of being caught up in events beyond your control (while other, more heroic, characters strut their stuff around you) that I was trying to refer to.
quote:
I find it a little ironic that a coming of age story would be considered a "change of pace", since so many fantasy novels (if not as many Realms novels) follow this formula.
Anyway, I just finished The Shadow Stone, and that novel definitely qualifies as a coming of age story, containing most of the familiar elements and excising some of the more eye-rolling ones (like the obligatory romance).
Again The Shadow Stone is yet another one of my purchased but unread books! (I have read some FR books, I promise! ) You're quite right about that kind of story being a trend in more conventional fantasy novels, of course, but it's not a variant of the genre often seen in FR novels - and I wouldn't mind seeing it some more.
Nice chatting with you again, Rinonalyrna! Take care!
Best!
JDD |
"How content that young woman looks, don't you think? How content, and yet how flammable." - Lemony Snicket, The Unauthorized Autobiography |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2007 : 21:22:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I find it a little ironic that a coming of age story would be considered a "change of pace", since so many fantasy novels (if not as many Realms novels) follow this formula.
Anyway, I just finished The Shadow Stone, and that novel definitely qualifies as a coming of age story, containing most of the familiar elements and excising some of the more eye-rolling ones (like the obligatory romance).
Not that this particularly has much to do with the subject at hand, but one of the subplots in Depths is a kind of coming of age story.
(Heh. "Kind of." )
In that vein, I suppose a number of fantasy stories delve into the "coming of age" motif, but in a more general sense: often, it's more a matter of finding and accepting one's true identity -- accepting one's destiny/power/responsibility/etc., more than the "young boy discovers power, town is destroy, sets out to save the world" sort of story.
(Though, of course, plenty of fantasy does that, too. )
But I'll stop before I detour us far, far, FAR from topic.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2007 : 23:46:59
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quote:
Originally posted by J D Dunsany
I like the following ideas a lot:
Adventuring companies. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on Ed Greenwood's 'Knights of Myth Drannor' books precisely because he does inter-party banter better than any other author I've read. It feels like friends sitting round a game table having a laugh. So, any books that feature that kind of interplay are fine by me. Plus, you can do all sorts of exciting things with strategy in combat, emotional entanglements etc. Heck, you can even have them argue over loot. (Hmmm... Maybe that's just in the games I DM.)
That gets my vote |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2007 : 23:58:46
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quote:
Originally posted by J D Dunsany
Unfortunately, City of Splendors is still on my ever-growing pile of books to read, but I'm sure you're right. And, no, Merrow's involvement in the events of 'Black Wolf' maybe don't make him the best example, but it was that feeling of being caught up in events beyond your control (while other, more heroic, characters strut their stuff around you) that I was trying to refer to.
Understood. But for my part, I like it when the commoners themselves end up being heroic and finding agency. City of Splendors is, I think, a good example of a novel with those sorts of characters (in fact, one thing I like about Greenwood's work is that he actually does make an effort to put common people in the spotlight). And a lot of heroes started off with humble roots to begin with.
Merrow--as you pointed out--is an example of an ordinary guy who falls in with a bad crowd, rolls with the tide, and ends up paying for it. Not a bad story hook in and of itself, to be sure, but commoners are already pushed to the sidelines often enough; like I said I prefer it when they find agency rather than wind up in roles where they are simply to be pitied (or even disdained).
quote:
Again The Shadow Stone is yet another one of my purchased but unread books! (I have read some FR books, I promise! ) You're quite right about that kind of story being a trend in more conventional fantasy novels, of course, but it's not a variant of the genre often seen in FR novels - and I wouldn't mind seeing it some more.
Nice chatting with you again, Rinonalyrna! Take care!
Best!
JDD
Nice talking to you too. And yes, I think you'd like The Shadow Stone. I found it hard to believe it was written by the same guy who wrote a trilogy I ended up disliking so much (The Last Mythal trilogy). The novel is basically one part classic coming of age tale, one part Harry Potter-esque wizard school mystery with plenty of politics that the protagonist gets caught up in. Definitely give it a try. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2007 : 00:04:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Not that this particularly has much to do with the subject at hand, but one of the subplots in Depths is a kind of coming of age story.
(Heh. "Kind of." )
In that vein, I suppose a number of fantasy stories delve into the "coming of age" motif, but in a more general sense: often, it's more a matter of finding and accepting one's true identity -- accepting one's destiny/power/responsibility/etc., more than the "young boy discovers power, town is destroy, sets out to save the world" sort of story.
(Though, of course, plenty of fantasy does that, too. )
Agreed. I don't think the Realms really needs any "young farm boy/girl discovers power, is mentored by a wise old wizard, and turns out to be the long-lost heir to the throne" stories, but I'll always enjoy stories about self-discovery.
quote:
But I'll stop before I detour us far, far, FAR from topic.
I think it's a little too late for that.
By the way, I think Swords of Eveningstar has some coming-of-age elements in it, too. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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TheGato
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2007 : 14:38:15
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Personally voted Rangers, just because I enjoy Ranger and Rogue type characters.
I read all the rogue series and loved them. I thought they gave an interesting look into their sort. The different areas involved with them were nice too.
Id like to see more specialized series on different character types.
Though "Adventuring companies" does have a good element to it. The little Ive read on Ed Greenwood's 'Knights of Myth Drannor' was really good. I like reading the company stories with good character interaction amongst a group when you can really tell they know each other... or hate each other. |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 10:20:55
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The Bards
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BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 03:19:26
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| Now with 4E here, we will have to turn to the "Roles" series of novels, with 4 books on "Leaders", "Defenders", "Strikers" and "Controllers" respectively |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Next CLASS series of novels
