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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 07:05:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Zaknafein
rangers would be pretty cool i would think. them or bards would be interesting
Well, the old Harper books have several books both about bards and rangers, so in a way this has been done. As there don't seem to be any plans for another class based series that I can see this would be your best alternative. |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2007 : 22:30:24
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| I personally would have loved to see paladin series, especially if they'd focused on non-traditional paladins (e.g. those who don't worship the Triad or Lathander). In particular, books following paladins of the Harmonious Order, the Eternal Order, the Guardians of the Weave, or the Knights of the Shadowy Cloak could have all been fascinating. |
Edited by - nbnmare on 10 Feb 2007 22:31:44 |
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Twilight
Seeker
Canada
68 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2007 : 02:02:55
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| The Bards would be pretty cool |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2007 : 03:29:19
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quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
I personally would have loved to see paladin series, especially if they'd focused on non-traditional paladins (e.g. those who don't worship the Triad or Lathander). In particular, books following paladins of the Harmonious Order, the Eternal Order, the Guardians of the Weave, or the Knights of the Shadowy Cloak could have all been fascinating.
That would be good. I would like at least one book to cover a regular paladin, while examples of typical paladins are present in the setting, I don't think they get much novel exposure. |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2007 : 17:57:20
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| I voted for Ranger, but in truth I've always loved the team dynamic of party role playing. I think a series of books focused on varioous parties or even a single party would rock. I could easily see an Adventurer series of stand alone books about different parties of various levels. |
"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 04:44:15
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| I still would love to see Rangers, but bards would be nice. Maybe they could bring back Caledan Caldorien. |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2007 : 02:18:39
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| Do you think they would ever consider doing a series on the classes from PHBII. That is, one book on a beguiler, one on a knight, etc. |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2007 : 03:05:22
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
Do you think they would ever consider doing a series on the classes from PHBII. That is, one book on a beguiler, one on a knight, etc.
Because you asked--it seems rather unlikely.
Just my opinion. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 20 Feb 2007 03:05:39 |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2007 : 14:05:50
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| I've yet to hear of non-core standard classes turning up as even secondary characters in novels, let alone receiving a series of all of their one. They're more likely to turn up in the generic D&D novels that Wizards have started putting out than the FR range. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2007 : 17:03:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
Okay are there any other places were I can find information on this man: Dharan Greyt
Well...apart from asking Eric, nope.
But I will answer any and all questions to the best of my ability.
No substitute for reading the book, however. If you want an understanding of the pressures and tribulations of being a high-level, NE bard in a town where everyone loves you but you don't love yourself . . . I'd give GW a read.
Erik |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2007 : 18:58:34
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| And for the record--I thought Greyt was the best character in that book, hands down. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2007 : 19:21:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
And for the record--I thought Greyt was the best character in that book, hands down.
I did really like his motivation. It was a nice change from the normal list of motivations for villains.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2007 : 21:20:19
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Aw, shucks, you guys. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2007 : 02:23:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
Do you think they would ever consider doing a series on the classes from PHBII. That is, one book on a beguiler, one on a knight, etc.
Because you asked--it seems rather unlikely.
hmmmm.....is that some sort of shot? |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2007 : 02:34:22
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
Do you think they would ever consider doing a series on the classes from PHBII. That is, one book on a beguiler, one on a knight, etc.
Because you asked--it seems rather unlikely.
hmmmm.....is that some sort of shot?
Some sort of shot? I'm not entirely sure what you mean...but I was just giving my honest opinion. If we haven't seen entire series that are dedicated to certain core classes (bards, barbarians, druids, etc.), why would we see an entire series dedicated to a class so new we haven't even see it in novels yet? Also, although anything is possible, WotC seems done with the class novels for now...their new stand-alones are going to be about dungeons and citadels. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2007 : 02:49:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Some sort of shot? I'm not entirely sure what you mean...but I was just giving my honest opinion. If we haven't seen entire series that are dedicated to certain core classes (bards, barbarians, druids, etc.), why would we see an entire series dedicated to a class so new we haven't even see it in novels yet? Also, although anything is possible, WotC seems done with the class novels for now...their new stand-alones are going to be about dungeons and citadels.
I was only kidding around. The way you phrased you're response "because you asked- it seems unlikely". That is, it won't happen because its MY idea.
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When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2007 : 14:29:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Play nice, people.
we are. |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2007 : 18:29:07
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
I was only kidding around. The way you phrased you're response "because you asked- it seems unlikely". That is, it won't happen because its MY idea.
Didn't mean it that way. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2007 : 22:52:40
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Not to intrude on this conversation, but I rather think that they picked the four class series (Fighters, Rogues, Wizards, Priests) largely because those are the four iconic, core, central groupings that have always been a part of the D&D game.
In 2e, they were Warriors, Rogues, Wizards, and Priests. Druid was a type of priest, as was the monk. Bards and thieves were the rogues. Warrior had fighter, ranger, and paladin. And the wizards were just wizards (or mages; or whatever).
Back in the beginning (the very beginning), I seem to recall that they were something like Fighting-Man, Magic-user, and Cleric. Thief was only added to the basic game.
With some exceptions (notably psionic), no matter what class a character has, he can fall in one of four basic categories, or is a combination of two or more:
- Warrior
- Rogue
- Arcane
- Divine
The monk, ranger, and paladin are warrior/priests. The bard is a little bit of everything.
Those class novels stood up because each of those categories (Fighter, Wizard, etc.) has an enormous breadth of variation you can do. Look at the Fighters: you got a Master of Chains, a Ghostwalker, a shape-changing barbarian, and a half-elf Bladesinger. All of them at least in some part fighters.
The Rogues are, by definition, adaptable and varied. The Priests could deal with the myriad gods the setting has to offer, and the Wizards . . . well, there's an infinite variety of arcanists out there.
On the other hand, a series called "The Duskblades," for instance . . . would be a bit limited. Even with "The Barbarians," you're expecting maybe a trilogy about the trials and trevails of a particular tribe.
So I guess my vote is, I don't anticipate another class-oriented series, unless:
1) We see a "The Psions" -- which doesn't seem as likely, since Psionics doesn't command quite the same popularity as the other four base classes. (Though Magadon is worthy of mention.)
2) They're tied around another aspect, like "Champions of Nature" or "The Wilders" being Druids/Rangers/etc.
3) "The Heroes" or "The Villains," being about the iconic characters who don't have as much play -- Miklos Selkirk, for instance, or Manshoon, or Sememmon -- or about whom a stand-alone novel would be appropriate and cool.
'Course, WotC might surprise us and come up with something we never expected. They're clever.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
If we haven't seen entire series that are dedicated to certain core classes (bards, barbarians, druids, etc.), why would we see an entire series dedicated to a class so new we haven't even see it in novels yet?
Which is not to say that such classes haven't already appeared in any number of novels, even within the class series out there already. Even though the PHB2 came out *after* the writing, the Knight class, for instance, is a much better expression of Arya's character (from Ghostwalker) than Fighter ever was. So now I consider Arya to be a classed-Knight.
That's much like going back and saying The Simbul is an Ultimate Magus (Complete Mage). The rules weren't there when she first appeared (the rules were quite different back when the Realms first appeared anyway -- the earliest stats I have on her were "Mage 30").
"Class" in a novel is really just an attempt at expressing a character's abilities/training. There are some characters for whom class is really hard to assign. (Drizzt Do'Urden for instance. I can't count how many different builds I've seen of him.)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2007 : 23:04:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Which is not to say that such classes haven't already appeared in any number of novels, even within the class series out there already.
Hey, that's true enough.
And you aren't intruding, you're simply being on-topic. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2007 : 23:48:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
3) "The Heroes" or "The Villains," being about the iconic characters who don't have as much play -- Miklos Selkirk, for instance, or Manshoon, or Sememmon -- or about whom a stand-alone novel would be appropriate and cool.
As I've stated before, they could make an entire trilogy of Manshoon books -- each focusing on a different clone. I'd love to see that!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2007 : 00:09:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
3) "The Heroes" or "The Villains," being about the iconic characters who don't have as much play -- Miklos Selkirk, for instance, or Manshoon, or Sememmon -- or about whom a stand-alone novel would be appropriate and cool.
As I've stated before, they could make an entire trilogy of Manshoon books -- each focusing on a different clone. I'd love to see that!
Though, as Ed did say, there are actually more than the "official three" Manshoon clones running around.
Perhaps a "Sembia-styled" series featuring the exploits of each clone would be more appropriate. And fun!
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2007 : 00:13:46
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| Yeah, but then some people would likely suffer Manshoon burn-out. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 22 Feb 2007 00:14:13 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2007 : 03:40:16
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| I know that one Manshoon clone is now the leader of the Night Masks, and another is back with the Zhentarim, but where is the third "official one"? I vaguely recall one taking shelter with the monks of Candlekeep in exchange for a rare book, is that the one? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2007 : 03:54:24
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quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
I know that one Manshoon clone is now the leader of the Night Masks, and another is back with the Zhentarim, but where is the third "official one"? I vaguely recall one taking shelter with the monks of Candlekeep in exchange for a rare book, is that the one?
Hanging with Halaster in Undermountain, the last we heard.
Other than the Night King, we don't know what path either of the official living Manshoons took to get where they are. So it's possible one of them is the one that went to Candlekeep -- and it's possible neither of them are. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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initiate
Learned Scribe
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2007 : 04:02:59
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While I agree, based purely on guess work, and the logic already laid forth by others such as the incomparable Erik Scott de Bie, (who's novel "Ghostwalker" is brilliant and should be read by all), that we're unlikely to see another class-based series any time soon, a couple of the other ideas suggested here strike me as particularly cool. Specifically, "The Heroes" and "The Villains" would both be ... well ... pretty much optimal so far as I'm concerned. I can think of whole lists of notable characters who would make excellent focuses for such books. Also, the idea of stories based on whole parties of adventurers is absolute genius. A real focus could be put on character interplay, and the diverse personalities which make up those adventuring groups whose deeds are, or may be, sung down the ages. Also, such books could take place just about anywhere in Faerun, and incorporate more or less anything.
I know that this wanders far from the original topic, but these are some other ideas for stand-alone series which come into my mind, just for the sake of throwing notions out there.
I think it would be great to see a seven book sequence, with each novel telling an unconnected story of one of the Seven Sisters. Some of the Seven have received a great deal of attention in print, but others have not, and they're all rich characters who could always use more development, as they tend to get lumped together and stereotyped to often.
Another interesting possibility, (though not necessarily one WotC would be likely to embrace as a selling point), would be a series of stand-alones focusing specifically on some of the more out-of-the-way or ignored locations in Faerun, and the people who live there. As I understand it, (having not been exposed to very many of them), some of the existing stand-alones have already done an excellent job of this, but it would be interesting to see it taken as a focus. Places like Narfell, Chult, Turmish, the Shaar, and the Great Rift spring immediately to mind as possibilities. Some of them have certainly had coverage before, but not nearly as much as, say, the Silver Marches or Cormyr. What would you call a series like that in order to make it marketable, though? "The Cultures"? ... Nah. ... "The Nations"?
Yet another idea is a series of lore-rich books each focused on one of the great kingdoms or empires of Faerun's past, (a book on Jaamdath, Deep Shanatar, the glory days of Gilgeam's Unther, to name only a few options.)
"Attack of the Manshoon Clones", hmm? Sounds interesting but, even as someone who has missed Manshoon's presence these last few years, I'd sooner see just one or two books entirely focused on the rightful master of Zhentil Keep. Then there would be more room for books on Elaith Craulnober, Alusair Obarskyr, Glarasteer Rhauligan, Kyriani Agrivar, Sememmon and Ashemi, Durnan, ... Ah, we can but dream.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2007 : 04:11:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
I know that one Manshoon clone is now the leader of the Night Masks, and another is back with the Zhentarim, but where is the third "official one"? I vaguely recall one taking shelter with the monks of Candlekeep in exchange for a rare book, is that the one?
Hanging with Halaster in Undermountain, the last we heard.
Other than the Night King, we don't know what path either of the official living Manshoons took to get where they are. So it's possible one of them is the one that went to Candlekeep -- and it's possible neither of them are.
Indeed. Officially, all we know is that there's one with the Zhents. One is a vampire crimelord in Westgate -- the Night King. And one is hanging with Halaster in Undermountain. We're assuming Ed will reveal more, in time.
And the tidbit from both THO and Ed -
"Remember the clever words of Richard Lee Byers, at last year's GenCon Indy FR seminar: "In my father's house, there are many Manshoons."
In other words, there are MORE Manshoons than 3e lore currently admits (as Ed will reveal in the fullness of time). And I'd say he's far more powerful than Fzoul, because he has fall-back plans and caches and plans set in motion far beyond Fzoul's capacity to anticipate. He may have suffered a personal setback within the Zhentarim, temporarily, but (to quote Ed of the Greenwood, hereafter):
"He's MUCH more cunning and better prepared than Fzoul has ever been. Fzoul always plays the "Hi, God of the Moment, I'm Yours!" card, and that's like juggling a flaming sword: no matter how good you are, sooner or later you're going to get badly cut and burned. My money is always on Manshoon - - and remember, I created Fzoul, Manshoon, and the Zhentarim, but haven't really had the chance to properly tell any of their stories, yet. Just fragments."
To this I can add: don't miss the Best of Eddie book, for a few glimpses more . . .
love,
THO"
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 22 Feb 2007 04:12:12 |
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initiate
Learned Scribe
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2007 : 05:24:30
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If memory, [and the FRCS], serve me correctly, the one who has assumed "a position of power" [FRCS] within the Night Masks is currently calling himself Orbakh. More on the various Manshoon clones, [most particularly the "real" Manshoon, the one working with the Zhents, is one of the things I look forward to the most in future Realmslore. I'm very fond of villains with panache, and Manshoon has it in spades.
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Next CLASS series of novels
