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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
 Posted - 01 May 2005 : 07:14:24
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Poll Question:
Will your Forgotten Realms campaign include the events and results of the War of the Spider Queen series? (Spoilers for the series follow)
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quote:
In the waning days of the month of Eleasias, the high priestesses of Menzoberranzan came to a startling realization--their goddess had completely abandoned them...
(The Player's Guide to Faerun, page 169)
And thus began the War of the Spider Queen series. Six books later, the following events have taken place as a result of this series per this entry from Paul Kemp's blog:
quote:
1. Lolth is a greater goddess.
2. Her Plane is now her own, no longer part of the Abyss.
3. She has a special kind of Chosen, the Lady Penitent, who will serve as one of her instruments going forward.
4. Potentially, the awe of females that has long been the cornerstone of drow society may be weakened. The relative social power of the sexes has never been a function of actual power. It's been based on perception and long established social norms. And that perception and those norms have been shaken -- for the first time, males saw females scrambling when their goddess failed them.
5. Ched Nasad is in ruins.
6. The Jaezzred Chaulssin is running the show there. I can imagine a whole host of things that may result from that, especially in light of point 4 above.
**
Having recently finished this series, I found myself in an email discussion with another scribe during which he indicated the WOTSQ events would not happen in his realms. This admission led me to ponder how other scribes would treat the events and results from this novel series.
Thus, I created this poll.
I listed three options for a response. Two of the responses are fully clear: a full inclusion of the series' events/results within a campaign or a full exclusion. The other is for those who plan to have Lolth's silence take place but with different events and/or results. I'm very curious to read comments on each scribe's response especially those that might have different results and/or events take place. So if you vote, please share your reasons for the choice you make.
Enjoy and thanks for participating,
SiriusBlack
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2005 : 07:24:34
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Mine will-once I've gotten around to running a game incorporating them as a major theme.
Until then, Lolth's silence hasn't happened. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2005 : 12:41:18
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| Yes, it will happen, but in my Realms the lady penitent is going to get jumped by Khelben, elminster, Qilue, Laeral, the simbul, storm, dove, Alustriel AND sylune as soon as possible. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2005 : 14:18:59
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| Throw 'every cleric of Corellon Larethian, House Jaelre and Fzoul Chembryl making sure Bane has no more true rivals on the surface' on that...I want that thing DEAD. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2005 : 16:36:18
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Khorne and Ethriel,
Why do you wish the Lady Penitent dead so badly?
SB |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 01:28:31
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A. Halisstra became despicable and ridiculous later on.
B. She's gonna be slaughtering Vhaeraunites and Elistraeeans...I'm getting sick and tired of a Goddess as flat and boring as Lolth going to the forefront over Vhaeraun and Eilistraee...who have more potential and character in their little fingers than the Spider Wench's bloated body |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 01:34:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
A. Halisstra became despicable and ridiculous later on.
At what point in the novel did she become ridiculous for you?
quote:
B. She's gonna be slaughtering Vhaeraunites and Elistraeeans...I'm getting sick and tired of a Goddess as flat and boring as Lolth going to the forefront over Vhaeraun and Eilistraee...who have more potential and character in their little fingers than the Spider Wench's bloated body
I understand such feelings. I take it you wish Vhaeraun actually was successful in his attempt to kill his mother at the end of Condemnation? |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 01:38:33
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I take it you wish Vhaeraun actually was successful in his attempt to kill his mother at the end of Condemnation?
From my view point my feelings would not have been hurt if they killed each other ;-)
Though there would be those free floating portfolios floating about the other Drow Deities would seek to grab up. Not counting other deities seeking increased powers. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 02 May 2005 01:39:19 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 01:44:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
From my view point my feelings would not have been hurt if they killed each other ;-)
I've heard plenty of distaste for Lolth, but not much regarding Vhaeraun. Why do you wish that deity to perish?
quote:
Though there would be those free floating portfolios floating about the other Drow Deities would seek to grab up. Not counting other deities seeking increased powers.
I recall at one time, Mask was showing an interest in Vhaeraun's portfolio. I thought something might come of that be it within the novel or gaming department. Alas, apparently not. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 01:59:17
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
From my view point my feelings would not have been hurt if they killed each other ;-)
I've heard plenty of distaste for Lolth, but not much regarding Vhaeraun. Why do you wish that deity to perish?
I favour the daughter is all. As far as it goes a deity of thieves certainly makes sense. I would have preferred seeing Eilistraee gain something out of this war and I see none.
Lolth gained power in Divine Rank though lost some followers.
Vhaeraun while not gaining rank (as far as we know) and losing a hand, gained followers and infiltrated many Lolthian cities.
Eilistraee as best I can tell gained nothing and certainly at times was poorly/inacurately displayed.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 03:21:48
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I would try to keep my realms as close to the real Realms that I could.I like the continuity thing....
Oh...SB did you dye your hair??????
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LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 03:37:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Eilistraee as best I can tell gained nothing and certainly at times was poorly/inacurately displayed.
As you can tell, you are not alone in holding such a belief. Will your FR campaign include something different for Eilistraee when it comes to the WOTSQ? |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 03:38:47
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quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
Oh...SB did you dye your hair??????
Yes, like Queen Amlaruil in Richard Baker's last novel, I underwent a change in hair color.  |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 04:02:47
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Eilistraee as best I can tell gained nothing and certainly at times was poorly/inacurately displayed.
As you can tell, you are not alone in holding such a belief. Will your FR campaign include something different for Eilistraee when it comes to the WOTSQ?
Oh certainly it will contain different things. No NPC Priestess will offer forgiveness for being killed. The silence provides a great opening for the message of peace and strength to be offered. The need for healing would be great and the dogma is not to kill Drow unless doing evil could serve as a great converter. The brother is not that generious. The Dark Ladies are not pacifists and never should be protrayed as such, they also are Drow (for the most part) and know that trust is hard to earn and even harder to keep. The message will be brought with an open hand of friendship, but also with a ready hand to the blade.
There are two major duties.
Offer peace and help, protect Drow life.
Kill any that are active evil, including Drow.
At times certainly hard to reconcile, but that is the task set for them. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 04:07:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Oh certainly it will contain different things...
I like what you put forth. How do you see Eilistraee gaining through the silence in your campaign? Will it be simply through converting some Lolth followers that they can reach before the Spider Queen returns? Or are you thinking even bigger? |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 04:33:58
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Oh certainly it will contain different things...
I like what you put forth. How do you see Eilistraee gaining through the silence in your campaign? Will it be simply through converting some Lolth followers that they can reach before the Spider Queen returns? Or are you thinking even bigger?
Well I am looking at posibility of many conversions. Which could actually lead to getting the stumbon surface elves to believe that some dark elves are actually good. I see the posibility of the Drow being added to the defense of Evermeet. A kind hand and a quick blade both serve their purpose.
Of course my version will never be canon.
I do for a few reasons see, even without the silence, the good Drow out numbering the evil Drow in a few thousand years (espcially with the Evil Drow gene being removed and the MR [now known as SR] is no longer dependent on living underground). The silence justs enables the opertives (which is canon) in Lolthian controled areas to speed the process. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 05:02:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well I am looking at posibility of many conversions. Which could actually lead to getting the stumbon surface elves to believe that some dark elves are actually good. I see the posibility of the Drow being added to the defense of Evermeet. A kind hand and a quick blade both serve their purpose.
Very interesting. The dark elves do have an ambassador already there on Evermeet. Thus, one could argue that eventually she begins to make progress in having Eilistraee dark elves become some part of Evermeet's defenses. The events of the Last Mythal series might even result in some way to tie this idea into canon events.
quote:
Of course my version will never be canon.
No offense to those that adhere to canon. But, I often find, such as this case, FR fans' version of the Realms much, much more interesting.
quote:
I do for a few reasons see, even without the silence, the good Drow out numbering the evil Drow in a few thousand years (espcially with the Evil Drow gene being removed and the MR [now known as SR] is no longer dependent on living underground). The silence justs enables the opertives (which is canon) in Lolthian controled areas to speed the process.
Yes, one would think that even in canon Realms, Vhaeraun and Eilistraee both gained followers. But, again perhaps that's just my strange take on the subject matter. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 05:19:44
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Very interesting. The dark elves do have an ambassador already there on Evermeet. Thus, one could argue that eventually she begins to make progress in having Eilistraee dark elves become some part of Evermeet's defenses. The events of the Last Mythal series might even result in some way to tie this idea into canon events.
Actually she left the Isle since the Queen turned her down because the People were just not ready for drow on Evermeet. :) This is probably even more true, at least in canon, since the Isle was attacked by drow after she was last there. However, she did accept a position as one of the Sad Queen's Agents. (Que the Matrix music!) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 02 May 2005 05:25:42 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 09:45:33
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Khorne and Ethriel,
Why do you wish the Lady Penitent dead so badly?
SB
Pretty much for the same reasons that Ethriel has, and also because I am SO tired of Lolth. Once upon a time she was fun, but nowadays I simply can`t take anymore of her(A major reason for this is because I can`t stand racists, and Lolth should have racism as one of her portfolios) |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 20:33:13
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To answer ya, SB...Halisstra became ridiculous and despicable in books five and six...and yes, I wish Vhaeraun had killed Lolth in Condemnation.
The only hit Vhaeraun ever took for me was when Elaine wrote him...and gave him that pathetic wench Shakti....UGH! Nisstyre could have and probably would have won that fight without her!
I just want a time when Eilistraee and Vhaeraun can be written competently...like Vhae in Condemnation |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 20:39:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
To answer ya, SB...Halisstra became ridiculous and despicable in books five and six...
You're not alone in believing she became the former term in the last two novels within the WOTSQ series.
quote:
I just want a time when Eilistraee and Vhaeraun can be written competently...like Vhae in Condemnation
I enjoyed seeing Vhaeraun's followers both in Elaine's writings and Condemnation. Although, the latter novel had me rolling my eyes a bit at how easy it was for Jeggred to dispatch Tzirik. |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 21:47:25
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I've included the Silence of Lolth in both my FR campaigns. I think it interesting is to have RSE rumbling in the background. It helps me creating a dynamic setting.
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 00:47:01
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Vhaeraun seemed contradictory in Daughter of the Drow...gives Shakti power over his competent servants and Shakti manages to bungle things horribly by getting Nisstyre killed.
Rich wrote Vhaeraun like he should be...THAT was a duel between Gods |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 01:19:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
Rich wrote Vhaeraun like he should be...THAT was a duel between Gods
Yeah, a duel he couldn't win against a God less powerful.  |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 02:04:40
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Turf, we can't forget the place where it was happening...and Vhaeraun'd just been using some of his godly stamina wrecking his mom's face.
Plus, Selvetarm was at home at that part of the Demonweb....Vhae wasn't. And remember mommy's lecture to Vhae in Evermeet |
Edited by - Ethriel on 03 May 2005 02:21:42 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 03:07:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
Turf, we can't forget the place where it was happening...and Vhaeraun'd just been using some of his godly stamina wrecking his mom's face.
Plus, Selvetarm was at home at that part of the Demonweb....Vhae wasn't. And remember mommy's lecture to Vhae in Evermeet
Sounds like I'm dealing with a Vhaeraun fan....yes? |
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Freakboy
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 04:03:07
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I am using the WotSQ in my campaign and leaving it as written. I think the changes that exist are more than enough to shake things up as I intend to have the new Ched Nasad become a big player to rival Menzo. The Chaulssin will finally have a complete drow city of their own and that will allow for many interesting adventures for the Drow party that we just started for our second gaming group when they get strong enough.
As for the various outcomes, I found them to be gratifying. I think we tend to understimate exactly how much did happen in these novels because some wanted even bigger things. Having Ched Nasad and Myrmidea destroyed, Lolth becomming a greater Goddess, Chaulssin gaining control over a new Ched Nasad, and the shake up to the social order that will exist because of the percieved vulnerability of the females is all going to be quite strong. Certainly others can have different takes, but with Drow society being status quo for thousands of years, this was a major shake up. Time will tell how much so but I am quite happy with the conclusion to the series. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 11:43:38
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
Rich wrote Vhaeraun like he should be...THAT was a duel between Gods
Yeah, a duel he couldn't win against a God less powerful.
Well, they did fall through the floor, didn`t they? And Tzirik did get instructions to summon Vhaeraun back, which implies that he had gotten rid of his son(not killed him) and was ready to resume the statue-bashing. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 13:45:10
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Yep, full out follower of the Masked Lord here, SB...partly given the OTHER Gods of the Drow pantheon. And also, because Eili and Vhae, who are both powerful, intelligent and clever Gods get dumbed down almost every time...trusting the crescent blade to Halisstra? Giving a newly ordained priestess (WHO STILL SERVES LOLTH) Power over a very capable and loyal servant?
I just want the twins written competently for once in their older years, and have them come out on top (Sadly they'd never join forces...) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 14:36:17
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It would be very hard for the Twins to trust each other even to go against mother.
The biggest problem is alignment, though I have seen arguements for the brother to be CN instead of CE.
Both do share a few goals, freeing from mother and Drow on the surface. The ways of bringing this about however differs greatly.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 14:45:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
I just want the twins written competently for once in their older years, and have them come out on top (Sadly they'd never join forces...)
Eilistraee and Vhaeraun joining forces....now that would be interesting. And yes, while I've had my fill of Underdark dark elves, if a FR novel focused on followers of either of these two deities, I'd pick it up. |
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War of the Spider Queen in your Realms?(Spoilers)
