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Originally posted by BEAST

Old thread, I know. But Krash has mentioned this particular conflict often, here at the Keep. And with <Amazon> alleging that Salvatore's next book will involve Gauntlgrym, I thought the subject bore reexamination.

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Originally posted by George Krashos

Some of the comments in the Hunters Blades Trilogy re Gauntlgrym don't quite match up with what we've learned of this place in "Lost Empires of Faerun".

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I'd just like to point out that Bob wrote his references to Gauntlgrym in the books of "The Hunter's Blades Trilogy" back before LEOF was published. I am not familiar with all of the backstory on Illusk and the refugees who founded Gauntlgrym, but that specific timeline in LEOF came out after he put Gauntlgrym into the mind and mouth of Bruenor. So how is Bob at fault for not incorporating a 2005 lorebook's info into novels released in 2002, 2003, and 2004?

Is it possible that the design team for LEOF is the party at fault, here, since they failed to incorporate Bruenor's recollections from "THBT" in the early 2000's into the 2005 lorebook LEOF?

Or, maybe Bob overlooked even older, existing lore from other lorebooks, rather than LEOF. Perhaps those publications are what he should be chastised about?

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I hope he has a read of LEoF before he gets into too much of a writing frenzy.

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Regardless, I'll pass this info on to him by e-mail. He definitely should see it. Wouldn't want him to overlook any of this lore, from any of the sources.

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Originally posted by The Hooded One

No, he'd not be done yet.
Gauntulgrym was, of course, an Ed creation, and appeared on Ed's original maps of the Sword Coast North, the Fonstad FR Atlas, and the relevant early "FR" products. Although both the Company of Crazed Venturers and the Knights of Myth Drannor (briefly) visited that complex of underground city/dungeon/labyrinth/linked caverns beneath (as did players in Ed's for-charity D&D tournament at GenCon 20), Ed purposely kept lore about Gauntulgrym - - which exists in his pencil notes and maps as a huge mapped (but not completely mapped; Ed stopped after about 70 8.5"x11" grid graph paper sheets) place - - spotty and sparse, to give everyone else using the Realms maximum freedom.
The "original" Edlore history of Gauntulgrym mentioned linked natural caverns, formerly water-filled (and created) but later left dry as the rock-cleaving waters descended into lower levels, and at least three separate times of inhabitation and tunneling by dwarves, et al (not to mention a DRAGON lairing in a mountaintop cavern above most of the rest of it). At least two of those periods of habitation produced extensive networks of chambers with stone doors both obvious and hidden, many halls and passages, etc.
In other words, allowing for maximum utility and freedom for DMs, writers, and game designers. Check out Ed's unedited prose wherever you can, and you'll see that Ed is a master of "weasel-wording" (e.g. "it is thought that" rather than bald statements of fact) that allow for different interpretations to easily be made without introducing inconsistencies.
In short, Bob should be free to have fun and tell a great tale.
love to all,
THO

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Originally posted by Knight of the Gate

My initial thought (on reading this thread from start to finish) was that this is an EASY retcon- Bruenor was wrong. In a world where one can't google a fact, many old dates would be easily blurred. This would be true of facts from more than one generation past, (meaning you can't go ask grandpa when such-and-such a place fell to the orcs, etc) let alone for anything from millennia ago. So he THOUGHT that Gauntulgrym was founded at a given time, but confused it with some outpost of ancient Delzoun, or just got it plain wrong.
Of course, it would be nice to see a nod in the direction of continuity, at least in the form of 'Gee, I always thought that Gauntulgrym was older than that- goes to show you can't trust tavern tales, I guess'.

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I'm not a Realms-loresman any longer. I used to be, once upon a time, but let's just say that I saw so many "truths" I knew about the world changed for game reasons, new idea reasons, convenience reasons or whatever reasons (including things about characters and places that I had created, like Blingdenstone) that I just threw my hands up, right around 3rd edition, and told the editors - "I'll be mushy on dates and places, you guys let me know if you need more info or more specific info and I'll put it in."

So there you go. You can quote that last paragraph. (E-mail to BEAST, 22-FEB-2010)

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