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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Apr 2005 : 03:18:47
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One of the things that really bugs me about 3ed is what theyve done with the Bane weapon Ability.
In 1ed/2ed a Sword would be race specfic ie +3 Red Dragon Slayer
But in 3ed its Dragons full stop, the sword will damage ALL dragons regardless of type with the same amount of bonus damage.
Now where this really falls down is with Elves for example, if I have an Elf Bane Sword then it effects all Elves, Drow, Sun Elves, Moon elves, Avariel, Sea elves etc. Now take the Elves of Cormathor and Myth Drannor they had fought long wars against the drow beneath the Dales, its highly likely (in fact we know they did as One Thousand Broken Dreams shows in MOF) that the elves would craft sword that specficly hurt drow, but Drow are elves and using the rules there would be nothing to stop a Drow from picking up the Elf bane sword of a Fallen surface elf and use it against surface elves.
To me Bane is flawed
My suggested solution is that you restrict Bane to a specfic race ie Drow, Frost Giants, Red Dragons or Devils and give it an extra d6 (thus givine it 3d6) of Damage. in effect the creator trades versatility for more damage
Coments?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2005 : 03:59:06
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I really don't have a problem with bane as is.
It actually bugs me how Drow are sometimes considered their own thing instead of a subrace of elves. In my eyes, if it hurts a Drow it should effect a non-drow elf the same.
Think about how ridiculous it would be if you applied the same concept to humans. My bane weapon wreaks havoc on calashite humans but not on Shaaran humans. Doesn't really make since there. I know it's a little different because Drow have different special abilities and stuff than a surface elf but it's the same concept. They are still a type of elf.
If you want to make a weapon that is particularly effective against one very specific type of creature you can always make the weapon be bane + flaming (for frost giants) or Bane + Anarchic (for Devils) etc...
If I was a surface elf and wanted to make weapons that devestated Drow but not surface elves I would make a holy weapon instead of a bane weapon.
I see nothing wrong with the adjustment you made and agree that it is also balanced, however, I just don't think it's needed.
Just my 2 coppers
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costaran
Acolyte
Turkey
17 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2005 : 04:10:02
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An elf bane drow-made sword is also bane for drows. I think you are right. But I'm not sure if this extra d6 compensates the limitation. |
"From death comes life, and there is always another morning to turn a setback into a success." - The Morninglord |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2005 : 04:14:23
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You also have to factor in a fairly major divine curse and the effect of 12,000+ years of exposure to Underdark radiation in the differences between drow and the other elves.
Personally, I think the main reason there are "drow slayer" blades and the others are "elf slayers" for all the other races is that the elves of light spent a good deal of time *making* it so. Lots can come out of infinite hatred and near-infinite time. So I would rule that all "elf bane" weapons had to either be "drow bane" or "everything else" bane.
Of course, I don't play 3e, so the point's moot for my games. But there's the opinion you asked for. And I like your idea Dargoth. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2005 : 05:02:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
I really don't have a problem with bane as is.
It actually bugs me how Drow are sometimes considered their own thing instead of a subrace of elves. In my eyes, if it hurts a Drow it should effect a non-drow elf the same.
Think about how ridiculous it would be if you applied the same concept to humans. My bane weapon wreaks havoc on calashite humans but not on Shaaran humans. Doesn't really make since there. I know it's a little different because Drow have different special abilities and stuff than a surface elf but it's the same concept. They are still a type of elf.
If you want to make a weapon that is particularly effective against one very specific type of creature you can always make the weapon be bane + flaming (for frost giants) or Bane + Anarchic (for Devils) etc...
If I was a surface elf and wanted to make weapons that devestated Drow but not surface elves I would make a holy weapon instead of a bane weapon.
I see nothing wrong with the adjustment you made and agree that it is also balanced, however, I just don't think it's needed.
Just my 2 coppers
Yeah but that means Ive got to make it a higher + magical weapon because of the multiple abilities a a Flaming 2 handed sword Giant Bane created by Storm Giant will still do 2d6 worth of Damage to his own race if its used against them
Regarding Human Races Weapons, I would not be suprised in the least if the Calashites for example had created Bane: Chondathan and would also expect to see Bane: Calashite weapons in Jhaamdathan amoury
Such weapons would like be relics and of little use today seeing as how just about every Human nation in Faerun has at least 2 Human Racial groups |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2005 : 05:20:35
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| There's a difference between the regional variations of humans and the different species of elves. That's why I don't have a problem with Dargoth's idea for a drow bane weapon. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 03:08:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Yeah but that means Ive got to make it a higher + magical weapon because of the multiple abilities a a Flaming 2 handed sword Giant Bane created by Storm Giant will still do 2d6 worth of Damage to his own race if its used against them
Regarding Human Races Weapons, I would not be suprised in the least if the Calashites for example had created Bane: Chondathan and would also expect to see Bane: Calashite weapons in Jhaamdathan amoury
Such weapons would like be relics and of little use today seeing as how just about every Human nation in Faerun has at least 2 Human Racial groups
Or just add on a little house rule(more of a rider) to the bane property that allows it to only work against creatures with a specific subtype and type. Still fits the flavor and works with your purposes much better.
And the way that human subraces are written up(ie: the exact same way as subtypes in line stat blocks) has lead me to make the human subraces actual subtypes and make sure that everyone of human heritage has them(including planetouched and half-humans, including those who have taken the Human Heritage feat from Races of Destiny). It did make using +1 bane:Chondathan weapons quite a bit more interesting... |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2005 : 21:12:36
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I'd like to point out three things.
First, are you going to revamp the favored enemy feature as well? It works on the same rule subset.
Second, similar physiologies are undoubtably inherent between elves, even between a sea elf and a drow. The same is true with dragons, giants, etc. (This does, admittedly, start wearing thin when you consider that half-elves count as elves when hit with an elfbane weapon.)
Finally, in regards to your answer. Yes, there were surely some elvenbane weapons made by elves for use against drow. Yet don't forget that the rules make exception for items that are race-specific, or have some other limitation. One could easily conceive of a weapon that specifically damages drow who pick it up, yet uses the normal elvenbane property. |
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Problem with Bane Weapon special ability
