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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 08:29:34
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I'm writing a tale about drows and i'm interested in any info you could give me about the drow society, the houses, the liders, and I'm specially interested in the way they rise their children in clerical ways.
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"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Yggdrasil
Acolyte
Thailand
12 Posts |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 09:51:01
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Thanks for the help Yggdrasil, it answers part of the doubts I have.  |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Rhezarnos
Learned Scribe
![]()
Malaysia
131 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 10:03:19
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| What other information do you require? I could try digging up some info about it |
Playing a winged dwarf with acrophobia is fun. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 14:59:54
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Thanks for asking, indeed a need some info. Here we go.
What's the aging ratio between humans and drow? Are the drow immortal as elves? What gods do the drow usually worship? |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 16:04:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius Andrass
Thanks for asking, indeed a need some info. Here we go.
What's the aging ratio between humans and drow? Are the drow immortal as elves? What gods do the drow usually worship?
I don't think there is a hard and fast ratio... Like elves, drow reach a certain age and then kinda stop aging for a while...
As for their gods, there's Lolth, Selvetarm, Kiaransalee, Ghaunadaur, Vhaeraun, and Eilistraee. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 16:14:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius Andrass
What gods do the drow usually worship? [/red][/i]
Of the Gods that WR listed, Lolth would be the one the majority of drow usually worship. But, that factor all depends on the type of drow characters you are writing about. |
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Veszaun Auvryath
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 16:49:01
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The drow "aging ratio" is a point of some debate, changed with various sources in the various editions of D&D. Compared to the other elves, though, they are/were traditionally shorter-lived and faster breeding.
As for FR drow gods, the staples are as follows. The information below is very limited, doesn't do them much justice, but I'm not sure how much detail we're allowed to post on here from the books so not going overly far :) . But I'll post a reference of books you could look into below it.
- Lolth (Intermediate deity, for now, at least), whom the majority worship (out of fear in many cases more than a sense of true reverence), more or less the "head" of the pantheon and the "symbol" of drow as a whole. Her portfolios are Assassins, Chaos, Darkness, Drow, Evil, Spiders.
- Vhaeraun (Lesser deity), son of Lolth, patron of many disillusioned drow males, and the drow god of thievery, who works against Lolth. He's also the chief god amongst drow on the surface, at least the evil ones. His portfolio contains Thievery, Drow Males, Evil Activity on the Surface.
- Selvetarm (Demigod), the Champion of Lolth (and son of Vhaeraun). Basically her "right hand man", bodyguard and enforcer so to speak. He's the patron of drow warriors, though he's not venerated much in and of his own accord, thanks to the doctrines of Lolth. His portfolio is Drow Warriors.
- Kiaransalee (Lesser deity, was only a demigod until recently), basically the drow deity of necromancy and vengeance. Very much anti-Lolth, though in no real position to pose a true threat as of yet. Her portfolios are Undead and Vengeance.
- Ghaunadaur (Lesser deity), primordial god of slimes, oozes, aboleth, and the like, who is also patron to various drow who are disillusioned with Lolth dominated society. Hates Lolth with a passion, occasionally forced into alliances with other deities such as Vhaeraun. His portfolio includes Oozes, Slimes, Jellies, Outcasts, Ropers, and Rebels.
- Eilistraee (Lesser deity, daughter of Lolth and hence sister of Vhaeraun). Patron of the "goodly" drow, mostly concentrated on the surface, as she (and her followers) are outcasts among all the other drow deities and their ilk. Also considered by some as being part of the Seldarine, though not all the elven gods would see it as such. Basically she's around to take in any drow who don't like the lifestyles that the other drow deities promote. Her portfolio includes Song, Beauty, Dance, Swordwork, Hunting, and Moonlight.
Most information you'll come across, aside from that within individual deity entries, will concentrate on Lolth dominated drow society. Just bear in mind that there are exceptions to those rules. Societies run primarily by one or more of the other deities can vary greatly.
For further drow reference, you should look into the following 3.X tomes:
- Faiths and Pantheons
- Races of Faerun
- Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
- Underdark
- City of the Spider Queen
- Lords of Darkness
There are tidbits of other information in various other sources, though it is minimal (such as Shining South).
For less crunch and more fluff, should also look into the following tomes from previous editions. Much more detailed information in those, though it's a bit outdated. Can pick up a copy of these on eBay for a few bucks, and barring that, can usually find the information for free (in PDF form) somewhere on the internet (not that I'm condoning doing so).
- The Drow of the Underdark
- Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark
- Demihuman Deities
- Menzoberranzan boxed set
There's also drow specific information in Dragon Magazine #298, though that's not actually "cannon" FR information. Tidbits of it were inspired directly from some of the older resources listed above, though, so should still look into it.
Okay, enough babble for now. Sorry if I crossed information with some others above, was making this post while they posted :)
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"You scoff at the notion of a drow Bladesinger? My, my. How very foolish of you to believe that the Ilythiiri did not possess the secrets of the Bladesong in ages long past. A select few of us have carried a twisted rendition of the 'Song down through the generations. Now, bearing that in mind, will you wipe that ridiculous look of incredulity from your face, or must the keen edge of my blade do it for you?"
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 17:05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Veszaun Auvryath
I'm not sure how much detail we're allowed to post on here from the books so not going overly far :)
There is no hard and fast rule on the number of lines or characters. Egads, imagine having to count that. He's one character over! Alaundo, unleash the hounds!
What I've seen Alaundo mention in the past is as follows:
quote:
posting information on the forum is permitted within reason. You must use the "Quote" function and state the source of the information. Even then, only sparse information should be given, not full sections of text.
I hope that helps.
quote:
Lolth (Intermediate deity, for now, at least),
A good point to bring up. Thelonius Andrass, depending upon the reason you are writing your tale, you might wish to wait until the conclusion of the WOTSQ novel. That tome might bring about some significant changes to drow society including worship. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 19:44:53
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Veszaun Auvryath
I'm not sure how much detail we're allowed to post on here from the books so not going overly far :)
There is no hard and fast rule on the number of lines or characters. Egads, imagine having to count that. He's one character over! Alaundo, unleash the hounds!
What I've seen Alaundo mention in the past is as follows:
quote:
posting information on the forum is permitted within reason. You must use the "Quote" function and state the source of the information. Even then, only sparse information should be given, not full sections of text.
I hope that helps.
Well met
Thank ye, Sirius 
Whilst WotC haven't stated specifically their limitations of quoting from published material, I feel it is best to err on the side of caution herein to avoid their wrath. The guidelines listed by Sirius above appear to be acceptable to date. I am actually in the process of collating a list of guidelines (including this issue) and rules for Candlekeep which i'll make available shortly. |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 20:23:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Thank ye, Sirius
You're welcome. Thank you for passing along the information that you are collating a list of guidelines. I don't envy your task, but it will come in handy when situations such as this one arise. |
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Veszaun Auvryath
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2005 : 01:51:41
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| Thank you both, Sirius and Alaundo, for the information provided on posting guidelines. It will help in future whenever the desire to post strikes me. I don't post often on message boards, but when I do, I tend to ramble on incessantly and inadvertantly overstep boundaries more often than not. Hrm, that's one reason I don't post often, I suppose |
"You scoff at the notion of a drow Bladesinger? My, my. How very foolish of you to believe that the Ilythiiri did not possess the secrets of the Bladesong in ages long past. A select few of us have carried a twisted rendition of the 'Song down through the generations. Now, bearing that in mind, will you wipe that ridiculous look of incredulity from your face, or must the keen edge of my blade do it for you?"
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LordAnki
Seeker
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2005 : 02:27:11
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| Lolth? Lloth? Why did R.A. Salvatore change the spelling. Even in the dark elf trilogy it switches. But if your elf lives in Menzoberanzan they all worship Lloth (Lolth) |
Tip of the Month: don't drink the dirty water. You know what i'm talking about if you know what i mean. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 08:47:32
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| Wow!!! You really helped me Veszaun, this information you've just given me is incredibly valuable for my story thank you very much, pardon my ignorance but I really didn't know anything about Kiaransalee, and I've found her most interesting, cause i'm searching for a "Drow Deity" (not Lolth) that a Evil drow cleric would worship, where can i find more info about her?. I've see that Shar doesn't appear in you deities list, I thought she was also worshipped by some drows, was I mistaken? |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
Edited by - Thelonius on 16 Apr 2005 08:48:27 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 15:58:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius Andrass
pardon my ignorance but I really didn't know anything about Kiaransalee, and I've found her most interesting, cause i'm searching for a "Drow Deity" (not Lolth) that a Evil drow cleric would worship, where can i find more info about her?. I've see that Shar doesn't appear in you deities list, I thought she was also worshipped by some drows, was I mistaken?[/red][/size=2]
Demihuman Deities is your best source for information on Kiaransalee. She also got the spotlight in the last FR adventure, City of the Spider Queen. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 16 Apr 2005 16:01:45 |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 16:12:20
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Thanks Sirius, i'll check them out.... if i find them here  ] |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
Edited by - Thelonius on 16 Apr 2005 16:12:40 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 16:17:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius Andrass
Thanks Sirius, i'll check them out.... if i find them here ]
You're welcome. Oh, and just so you know a bit of what you are getting from one of the products I mentioned, here is a link to the art gallery for City of the Spider Queen. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 16:19:18
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius Andrass
Thanks Sirius, i'll check them out.... if i find them here ]
You're welcome. Oh, and just so you know a bit of what you are getting from one of the products I mentioned, here is a link to the art gallery for City of the Spider Queen.
Mmmm... simply frightening, thanks sirius! |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 16:29:38
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I've got a doubt that's been hitting myself for centuries
If agreat house is falling, you know, for example the house Baenre destroying house Do'Urden, and there was a drow child lost in the battle, would a drow save the child to carry the vengeance of the house, or would they let him die, cause they prefer to save themselves? |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 16:33:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius Andrass
I've got a doubt that's been hitting myself for centuries
If agreat house is falling, you know, for example the house Baenre destroying house Do'Urden, and there was a drow child lost in the battle, would a drow save the child to carry the vengeance of the house, or would they let him die, cause they prefer to save themselves?
Push comes to shove, most dark elves will worry about themselves first. In that situation, I can see a child being saved if possible as the adults would wish to get as many children out for, if not vengeance, survival in the future. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 16:37:09
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So, first a great ¡Run for your lives! that's what I thought, then i have a problem in my story  |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 16:38:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius Andrass
So, first a great ¡Run for your lives! that's what I thought, then i have a problem in my story
Well what's the situation in your story? Can you get more specific? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 17:02:39
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I could see another House sending troops into the battle, specifically to grab some kids and hold them for future use against the attacking House...
For example: House Smith is ranked 3rd in the city. House Jones is a close fourth. House Miller is only ranked 11th.
But when the forces of House Smith attack House Jones, House Miller sends in a small, elite squad to try to grab the kids of House Jones. If they grab at least one or two and get out again, then they have proof of what happened and who did it. They can then pop up the next day, and point to the fact that one House was almost but not quite destroyed by another. This could cause the fall of House Smith, which would elevate House Miller.
Of course, this scenario supposes that House Miller knows of the attack beforehand or can mobilize troops for the snatch and grab in mere minutes, that they can get to the kids before House Smith, that they can get them out, and that they'd want to do all this in the first place.
So it's a possibility, but not a definite one.
As for an individual survivor, it'd be a serious uphill battle to get vengeance without the backing of another House. I think they'd have to offer the other House something seriously valuable to get their assistance -- otherwise, the assisting House may turn the lone survivor over to the offending House, so they could finish the job and would owe the assisting House a favor. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 18:52:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius Andrass
I've got a doubt that's been hitting myself for centuries
If agreat house is falling, you know, for example the house Baenre destroying house Do'Urden, and there was a drow child lost in the battle, would a drow save the child to carry the vengeance of the house, or would they let him die, cause they prefer to save themselves?
There can always be a power play that a child would be saved to bring down another House. One good reason to do this is the basic law that in a House war if the attacking House fails to distroy the House attacked that the attacking House is to be distroried by all the other Houses for their failure.
There is also a need for slaves that might be a consideration that results in saving the lives of non Noble blood being saved.
Last point not all Drow put self-interest above all other interests. Even a Presstes of Lolth will sacafice for own child though that could weaken the House, of course the cost is paid to advoid Lolth removing spells from the House members.
There are general guidelines that SKR and others offer, however within those general guidelines there are room for a few to many exceptions. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 19:35:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I could see another House sending troops into the battle, specifically to grab some kids and hold them for future use against the attacking House...
I read the situation that Thelonius Andrass presented as...If House X were attacking and about to destroy House Y, would a member of House Y perhaps save a child from House Y or would it be every dark elf for him/herself. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 19:46:52
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I read the situation that Thelonius Andrass presented as...If House X were attacking and about to destroy House Y, would a member of House Y perhaps save a child from House Y or would it be every dark elf for him/herself.
If this is the case, there is more reason to save the child then already outlined above (my previous post). The House defenses breached and the odds droping of repealing invaders, the fleeing to save life could use extra pairs of eyes. A child could be carried in such a way to warn on how close one might be followed. There is also strenght in numbers that is well recoginised. While elves do not sleep they still have down time, a lone Drow would be in danger far more then with a Drow child to be alert when the adult needs to rest. |
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LordAnki
Seeker
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 21:57:55
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| I laughed when House Do'Urden fell. Their house sucked anyways. |
Tip of the Month: don't drink the dirty water. You know what i'm talking about if you know what i mean. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2005 : 10:03:27
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I could see another House sending troops into the battle, specifically to grab some kids and hold them for future use against the attacking House...
I read the situation that Thelonius Andrass presented as...If House X were attacking and about to destroy House Y, would a member of House Y perhaps save a child from House Y or would it be every dark elf for him/herself.
In fact that's the situation I was trying to describe, and I was thinking in some kind of direct attack against a house, the drow patrols killing anyone alive in the house, ... what would an adult drow do if he/she found a child? |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
Edited by - Thelonius on 21 Apr 2005 10:04:09 |
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TymoraChosen
Seeker
67 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2005 : 10:23:47
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Well if ythe child is a male, probably slain or raised to be a expendable conscript in their military ranks. If a female, slightly higher chance of survival, either slain or raised as part of the victorous house as a matron under a new name and never knowing which house she really originated from.
*shrug* Just a guess. |
May tymora's blessings be heaped on all |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2005 : 14:00:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius Andrass
In fact that's the situation I was trying to describe, and I was thinking in some kind of direct attack against a house, the drow patrols killing anyone alive in the house, ... what would an adult drow do if he/she found a child?
An adult drow from the house being attacked would save the child if and only if it was possible without risking too much the adult's own survival. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 21 Apr 2005 14:01:18 |
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Drow society
