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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Apr 2005 : 00:54:11
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quote:
Originally posted by LordAnki
Salvatore should've put the books in order. Reading the books from Dark Elf Trilogy on thru is going to make so much more sense to me than to my friends who have every FR book, and every DL book. I am going to try to get every Eberron book myself but I mean for them they said it was kind of confusing at first and then the Dark Elf tril came out and that filled in holes for them. But Drizzt only lived in the underdark for 40 years or so. Then it was several months when he went into the surface.
Well, the thing is, Salvatore didn't know Drizzt was going to be popular. According to what he said in an old Dragon interview, Drizzt was a spur-of-the-moment creation, someone he came up with when asked who Wulfgar's sidekick was!
I don't think that The Crystal Shard was even intended to be the first book of a trilogy, really, but I could be mistaken. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2005 : 03:56:43
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quote:
Originally posted by LordAnki
Salvatore should've put the books in order. Reading the books from Dark Elf Trilogy on thru is going to make so much more sense to me than to my friends who have every FR book, and every DL book.
Actually it's not, because Dark Elf was writen assuming the reader read Icewind Dale and thus makes references to things in Icewind Dale you won't understand.
There's absolutely no benefit to reading them in timeline order.
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"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2005 : 05:27:12
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
quote:
Originally posted by LordAnki
Salvatore should've put the books in order. Reading the books from Dark Elf Trilogy on thru is going to make so much more sense to me than to my friends who have every FR book, and every DL book.
Actually it's not, because Dark Elf was writen assuming the reader read Icewind Dale and thus makes references to things in Icewind Dale you won't understand.
There's absolutely no benefit to reading them in timeline order.
I disagree. It's been a while since I read those books, but I'm not recalling much (until the end of the third book) in the Dark Elf trilogy that references the Icewind Dale trilogy... And then it's not so much a reference to the events of that trilogy, as it is a kind of prequel to The Crystal Shard.
By reading in timeline order, you are following the story from start to finish, instead of jumping around from adulthood to childhood and back to adulthood. To me, it's the only way to read *any* book series: chronologically. |
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snowybeagle
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2005 : 03:34:11
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If I have a choice, I'd read the books in the publication order, not the chronological order within the universe.
Basically, when writers tell a story, they have to be mindful of what was revealed before in previous stories.
In reading the Dark Elf Trilogy, Salvatore was aware that many readers would already know that Drizzt did survive the Underdark with his panther companion. The focus would be on how his character developed, how he learned his skills and acquire his artefacts, and eventually left the Underdark.
But when he was writing the Crystal Shard where Drizzt first appeared, his characters and their encounters were more "mortal", because the readers would have no idea whether they would survive. Until the revelation, most readers would probably assume Bruenor bought the farm.
Even if Drizzt got himself killed in the Dark Elf Trilogy, readers would assume he would be resurrected somehow (as far as elves could be resurrected) - or the Drizzt in Crystal Shard is a clone whose story is yet to be revealed. Thankfully, TSR had not gone into that direction, yet. Not for the major good guys anyway, IIRC, the Zhent leaders got a few clones hidden around. |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2005 : 04:01:12
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
quote:
Originally posted by LordAnki
Salvatore should've put the books in order. Reading the books from Dark Elf Trilogy on thru is going to make so much more sense to me than to my friends who have every FR book, and every DL book.
Actually it's not, because Dark Elf was writen assuming the reader read Icewind Dale and thus makes references to things in Icewind Dale you won't understand.
There's absolutely no benefit to reading them in timeline order.
I agree completely. I mean, of course, it doesn't really matter whether you read Dark Elf or Icewind Dale first. By the time you've finished both trilogies, you're in the know concerning Drizzt. All that aside, there are definitely no extra benefits in reading Dark Elf first. If anything, there will be glaring contradictions going from Dark Elf to Icewind Dale. To a perceptive reader who starts with Dark Elf, he or she will realize that the order is off once they begin reading Icewind Dale. Of course, by then it's too late to go back and experience the books the way RAS intended them to be experienced, so that reader will stand firmly behind the idea that starting with Dark Elf is the best way to go.
Or is this re-releasing of the books in chronological order a way of RAS admitting that he should have started with Dark Elf in the first place? It surprises me that he would want the books to be released out of the order in which they were written. |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
Edited by - Crust on 12 Apr 2005 04:02:06 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2005 : 04:55:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Crust
If anything, there will be glaring contradictions going from Dark Elf to Icewind Dale.
And those contradictions don't exist in the other direction? What about the fact that The Crystal Shard gave Drizzt's age as being plus 200 years?
quote:
Originally posted by Crust
Or is this re-releasing of the books in chronological order a way of RAS admitting that he should have started with Dark Elf in the first place? It surprises me that he would want the books to be released out of the order in which they were written.
I doubt he has any say at all in the matter -- this is WotC's doing, not his. It's my understanding that once a manuscript hits the publisher's hands, the author has little control over it.
And what's wrong with them releasing the books in chronological order? New readers won't know the difference, and will have a greater appreciation of the character by reading in this order. People who read the books before already have their preference for what order to read them in. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2005 : 05:34:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I doubt he has any say at all in the matter -- this is WotC's doing, not his. It's my understanding that once a manuscript hits the publisher's hands, the author has little control over it.
Yes, WOTC no doubt retains the rights. However, given the history with this author, I don't think the company would do anything to upset their most popular author. Thus, while the new editions might be someone other than R.A. Salvatore's idea, the fact that they are being published indicates to me he does not object to them.
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2005 : 14:19:23
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I also think it's somewhat ridiculous that the books are being released yet again, and this time in an order that contradicts the indended experience originally given by RAS. Is there really any reason to release those books again? More money? I mean, I already have the paperbacks and the collectors editions. Those are arranged in the proper order.
I understand the logic in reading the books in chronological order. I can understand how someone would stumble into the series by starting at what one might consider the beginning of the saga. I read them in order of publication, so I'm biased. However, unless there have been revisions made to the books, re-releasing them in chronological order doesn't make much sense to me unless it's about money. No reader is going to benefit starting with Dark Elf any more than a reader will benefit starting with Icewind Dale. It's not like the next generation of FR readers will have a higher understanding of RAS's books now that they start with Dark Elf.
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"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2005 : 17:28:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Crust
Is there really any reason to release those books again? More money?
I've no idea if the new editions feature any changes/additions or anything special? Can someone who has such information help us out here? Is there anything special with these new editions? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2005 : 17:46:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Crust
I also think it's somewhat ridiculous that the books are being released yet again, and this time in an order that contradicts the indended experience originally given by RAS.
Again, how do you know this was how he intended them to be read? Has he ever stated this anywhere?
I honestly don't think that was how he intended them to be read... Drizzt wasn't created to be a star, he was created to be a sidekick (according to RAS himself). Who plans out this kind of thing for a sidekick?
No, here's what I believe happened: Drizzt became wildly popular, surprising everyone. This was inspiration enough for his early days to be chronicled, and for an endless stream of sequels to follow. RAS has been giving the crowd what it wants, not trying to spin out some epic. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2005 : 19:42:55
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| Hey, who renamed the title of this thread? :) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2005 : 20:35:51
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Hey, who renamed the title of this thread? :)
Probably some troublemaker. But, whoever it is  , that scribe has just made it easier for the thread to be found by new scribes who are passionate about Drizzt. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2005 : 22:56:46
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Hey, who renamed the title of this thread? :)
Probably some troublemaker. But, whoever it is , that scribe has just made it easier for the thread to be found by new scribes who are passionate about Drizzt.
Aye, must be those pesky gremlins running around the library altering the spines on tomes and rearranging scrolls again... |
Alaundo
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 03:23:14
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| Must be a Fremlin then. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 18:07:05
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quote:
I've no idea if the new editions feature any changes/additions or anything special? Can someone who has such information help us out here? Is there anything special with these new editions?
The Dark Elf books have several Q&As in each.
Crystal Shard has the timeline.
We'll see about the others. Personally I'm thrilled Dark Elf and Icewind Dale are in hardcover basically for the first time. What I don't like is it looks like they're going to reprint ALL the Drizzt novels into this Legends of Drizzt series right up to The Thousand Orcs. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 18:16:45
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
The Dark Elf books have several Q&As in each.
Crystal Shard has the timeline.
We'll see about the others. Personally I'm thrilled Dark Elf and Icewind Dale are in hardcover basically for the first time. What I don't like is it looks like they're going to reprint ALL the Drizzt novels into this Legends of Drizzt series right up to The Thousand Orcs.
Ah, I didn't know those plans. I wonder if each tome will have something extra for previous edition buyers? Thanks for providing this information. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 06:16:19
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Ah, I didn't know those plans. I wonder if each tome will have something extra for previous edition buyers? Thanks for providing this information.
I'm only speculating since in Icewind Dale they list ALL of the Drizzt novels except the Hunter's Blades trilogy as part of the Legends of Drizzt series, which leads me to assume they'll reprint them all.
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"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2008 : 16:18:36
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Old scroll, I know. But responding here seemed more apropos than starting yet another new scroll . . .
As an alternative or supplement to the official Wizards timeline of Drizzt books, I offer my own RAS Realms Chronology (see sig).
My timeline includes the novellas/short stories, as well as a game module which included a bit of a Drizzt-related story within.
Most notably, my timeline has the benefit of being painstakingly based on the time clues given within each of RAS's Realms works. This timeline was prepared in order to agree as closely with the works themselves.
However, I acknowledge that there may or may not be other Realms lore that Wizards was trying to cause the Drizzt chronology to agree with, which I have not taken into consideration. That might explain any discrepancies between my Drizzt-book-based timeline, and WOTC's official one.
I am here, partially, to find out. 
EDIT: Bump (to see if this will actually move the scroll up to the recent topics page). |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
Edited by - BEAST on 14 May 2008 08:34:48 |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 05:37:53
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Will someone please tell me, or direct me to where I may find, a chronology of R. A. Salvatore's Realms novels which is current to 2008 CE?
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 06:16:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Will someone please tell me, or direct me to where I may find, a chronology of R. A. Salvatore's Realms novels which is current to 2008 CE?
Well, BEAST has such a chronology, linked to in his sig. And there's always O Love's Novels Timeline, another wonderful resource. |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 07:45:17
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| Good information all around... |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 09:10:43
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I need to update that chronology, and add more time clues. I've been challenged more than a few times to back up my calculations! 
However, as I don't seem to find myself getting along with the staff over at RAS.com, I think it might be better to import it over here in order to continue working on it.
Wooly, in order to facilitate easier access to that timeline here, would it be alright if I started a new scroll for it, with the timeline proper in the first post of the scroll, rather than being buried on page 3 or whatever?
Not a pressing priority, but rather an ongoing project. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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mnb128
Learned Scribe
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 13:56:17
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
I need to update that chronology, and add more time clues. I've been challenged more than a few times to back up my calculations!
I'm one of those that's challenged it a little bit, but I'd love to see it over here and updated. It's great work, and it helped me navigate my way through the life and times of Drizzt and friends tremendously. Keep up the great work. |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 15:20:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by elven_songstress
Wow wouldn't that make Catti like sixty or seventy?
No..... she wasn't in the 1st three...... So she would be like late 20's early 30's.
Actually, she was in Sojourn. Bout near the end of the book. Sorry if this was already mentioned and if this was a dead thread. |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 15:24:52
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
I need to update that chronology, and add more time clues. I've been challenged more than a few times to back up my calculations!
However, as I don't seem to find myself getting along with the staff over at RAS.com, I think it might be better to import it over here in order to continue working on it.
Wooly, in order to facilitate easier access to that timeline here, would it be alright if I started a new scroll for it, with the timeline proper in the first post of the scroll, rather than being buried on page 3 or whatever?
Not a pressing priority, but rather an ongoing project.
If it's a work in progress, it prolly would be better in its own scroll, so that people can offer assistance without having to wade thru posts from years before. I'd include links, though, leading from this scroll to that one, and from that one to this one. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 16:28:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If it's a work in progress, it prolly would be better in its own scroll, so that people can offer assistance without having to wade thru posts from years before. I'd include links, though, leading from this scroll to that one, and from that one to this one.
Alrighty. Wilco. Thank you, Sir Hamster! |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 16:46:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by elven_songstress
Wow wouldn't that make Catti like sixty or seventy?
No..... she wasn't in the 1st three...... So she would be like late 20's early 30's.
Actually, she was in Sojourn. Bout near the end of the book. Sorry if this was already mentioned and if this was a dead thread.
Yeppers. Catti-brie was 11 years old near the end of Soj., when Drizzt moved to Icewind Dale in the autumn. By my calculations, that was 1345 DR. So she was probably born in 1334 DR (1345 DR - 11 years = 1334 DR).
This is supported by info in Passage to Dawn. When Drizzt goes to visit Cadderly during the summer of 1364 DR, and while Catti-brie is chatting with Danica, we're told that Cat will soon turn 30. This likewise points to a birth year of 1334 DR.
More specifically, it seems to me that Cat was born probably in the early autumn of 1334 DR. This would allow for her to already be 11 when Drizzt comes to Icewind Dale in Uktar/November of 1345 DR (Soj.), while also allowing her to still be only 29 in late summer 1364 DR (PTD).
With The Pirate King taking place over the course of the autumn of 1376 through spring of 1377 DR, I'd say that Catti-brie appears to have just had her 42nd birthday (1376 DR - 1334 DR = 42 years).
This would appear to contradict the blurb in the book that describes her as still being in her late 30s. And it makes the notion of little half-drow children even more remote.
EDIT:
CAVEAT:
As with so many other things, there are of course exceptions to the above formulation. The Legacy, which I calculate to take place in spring of 1358, tells us that Catti-brie had just turned 20 years old. This would seem to indicate that her birth date was in autumn of 1337, rather than 1334 DR. With that birth year, she would now be 39 years old.
I believe that edit was done in order to retcon Cat and Wulfgar into being the same age. He is described as eighteen in Streams of Silver, which is set in spring through summer, 1356 DR, which would seem to mean that he was born in 1337 or 1338 DR. Since he challenged King Heafstaag for leadership of the tribe the previous autumn, I tend to think of him kinda needing to already be 18 back then in the year 1355, which points to a birth date somewhere around summer or early autumn, 1337 DR.
And then with TPK, we're told that Catti-brie is still in her late thirties, and A Reader's Guide backs this up by citing her birth year as 1339 DR. With that birth year, whe would now be 37 years old.
Just like that, she keeps getting younger! So what we have here is a woman whose birth year magically keeps creeping forward in time, in such a fashion as to keep her from ever turning forty. I guess women don't like acknowledgding their ages even in the Realms!
Either that, or RAS/WOTC are still holding out for her to give Drizzt some kiddos . . .  |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
Edited by - BEAST on 09 Nov 2008 01:49:40 |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 22:48:34
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Ah.... It was the O Love site which I was seeking but could not find. Mercy buckets!
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 07:24:23
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| The debate on where is best to start, I'd have to stay the last trilogy, Hunter's Blade ;) lol...im just kidding, thats where I started on accdient, in fact that where I started my entire FR experience...then I went back and read Homeland-whatever...I started reading this thread and then realized it was 3 years old, holy snikies batman, thats probably before I joined this amazing...community. :D |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 13:48:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Ah.... It was the O Love site which I was seeking but could not find. Mercy buckets!
The catch with that O-Love site's chronology is that it seems to just give the official dates for the various works, without qualifying them by internal time clues within the works themselves. Since I've found quite a few discrepancies between the official dates and the internal info within RAS's works, it's very possible that such hiccups have occurred with other authors' stuff, as well. O-Love's timeline is a wonderful starting point, but remember the qualifier that it seems to be towing the company line... |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Drizzt Timeline
