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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 02:52:51
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Okay, here's a simple question. I've flipped thru a number of tomes, and I'm afraid I already know the answer... But I'm going to ask anyway. I may have missed something or been distracted by something bright and shiny...
In 2E, most elven high mages took a chance whenever they cast a high magic spell, unless they cast it on Evermeet. Sometimes the results of this chance could be quite bad for the spellcaster...
Anyway, does that still apply to 3.x, or is that another of the many things that was thrown out the window with nary a word of explanation?
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 02:59:33
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| I have a feeling that it's been tossed..... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 03:12:59
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It got tossed. Remember, in 3.X, Elves are no longer restricted to a maximum level.
Personally, I always thought that the elven high mage was simply the answer to having a race that studies and loves magic, and lives for hundreds of years but is somehow stuck at some massivly low level. You know, trying to figure out how a mage who can't grasp 6th level spells can still some how create a Mythal the size of a forest.
Although, unless there is another version of the High Mage besides the one I know of (Races of Faerun)the PrC requires you to be epic before entering. (21st or 24th level minumun, depending on if you can take an Epic feat at 20th level or not.) That's pretty tough on it's own. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 03:30:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Although, unless there is another version of the High Mage besides the one I know of (Races of Faerun)the PrC requires you to be epic before entering. (21st or 24th level minumun, depending on if you can take an Epic feat at 20th level or not.) That's pretty tough on it's own.
It is pretty tough, but the idea I was playing with required high magic to be dangerous to cast. Now I've got to come up with something else...  |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 22 Mar 2005 03:32:24 |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 03:55:33
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Refresh my memory; what exactly was the drawback, what were the dangers of high magic?
In 2ed, we houseruled out the level limitations, so we never actually bothered with the mechanics of it. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 04:07:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Refresh my memory; what exactly was the drawback, what were the dangers of high magic?
In 2ed, we houseruled out the level limitations, so we never actually bothered with the mechanics of it.
Any elven high mage (except for Amlaruil) had to roll percentile dice when casting High Magic -- even on Evermeet. 1-25%, you're safe. Beyond that... You could pass out, or lose all memorized spells -- and those were good results. You could also get sucked into a lower plane, take damage, age, permanently lose points from ability scores, permanently lose hit points, lose some levels, lose all spellcasting ability, or even die.
High Magic could do a lot for you, but it could also do a lot to you. 
But all that appears to have vanished in another of WotC's pointless retcons of the Realms.  |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 04:20:06
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| And what sort of powers did the high mages recieve in exchange for such risk? The current PrC is generic (and a little flavorless) with the abilitie to get epic spells a little faster and cheaper than than a standard epic mage. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 04:26:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
And what sort of powers did the high mages recieve in exchange for such risk? The current PrC is generic (and a little flavorless) with the abilitie to get epic spells a little faster and cheaper than than a standard epic mage.
Well, they got to exceed the normal level limits for elves, and they had some truly sweet spells...
Really, it was far more of an NPC thing than anything else. |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 04:37:33
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Hmm, then what I would do is create the new high mage; one who vastly increased the potency of their spells (Sort of like a Stone Shape that covers an acre) in exchange for risk. Using the same chart you have would probabably work just as well.
If you plan on keeping it an NPC thing, then hard and fast rules aren't nessesary, I would think.
In the novel Evermeet, I loved the flavor of the High Mages perfoming group rituals in defense of the island.
And I can see the definate appeal of having fantastic power in exchange for a high risk. It makes for good Drama, and thus good gaming.
However, with the invention of 3.x epic spellcasting and elves not having level limits, the previous use for high magic (and resulting potential price) seems to have gone away with most of the yummy flavored stuff. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 04:45:05
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I never strictly adhered to the level limit during 2e. It was at most, as Wooly suggested, an aspect for NPCs... but even then I was hard-pressed to retain the rule, especially when PCs starting reaching what would today be considered "EPIC LEVEL".
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 06:03:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Hmm, then what I would do is create the new high mage; one who vastly increased the potency of their spells (Sort of like a Stone Shape that covers an acre) in exchange for risk. Using the same chart you have would probabably work just as well.
If you plan on keeping it an NPC thing, then hard and fast rules aren't nessesary, I would think.
In the novel Evermeet, I loved the flavor of the High Mages perfoming group rituals in defense of the island.
And I can see the definate appeal of having fantastic power in exchange for a high risk. It makes for good Drama, and thus good gaming.
However, with the invention of 3.x epic spellcasting and elves not having level limits, the previous use for high magic (and resulting potential price) seems to have gone away with most of the yummy flavored stuff.
Well, here's the problem: I'm fiddling with the creation of an elvish artifact. I figured that a nifty ability would be that it would allow a High Mage to cast High Magic spells without worrying about the possible adverse effects. But if those adverse effects are gone, it's not much of a special ability for said artifact.
So, back to the drawing board... |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2005 : 04:59:55
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Well, you can still do that Wooly - sort of. You can have the item absorb backlash damage from casting Epic Magic (High Magic) and perhaps any other negative effects of Epic spellcasting. There aren't many FR-specific Epic spells at the moment but who's to say that future spells won't have some other drawbacks instead of backlash damage like ability drain or the possibility of insanity/feeblemind/disease etc. Of course, this is written based upon my feeble understanding of how Epic spellcasting works. Mind you, I'm trying to study up as I have an interesting article idea I'm looking to pitch to DRAGON ...
-- George Krashos
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2005 : 06:03:12
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Mind you, I'm trying to study up as I have an interesting article idea I'm looking to pitch to DRAGON ...
Tempting us again, eh George? 
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2005 : 06:18:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Tempting us again, eh George?
Teasing more than tempting.  |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2005 : 11:14:19
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I think I'm saying the same thing as George here, but I would do it as follows:
The nasty 2e repercussions to using High Magic can be thought of as mitigating factors to reduce the DC. (We put one such mitigating factor into LEoF to explain how much of a reduction in DC one gets by sacrificing one's own life in creating a mythal.) Culturally, elves are more willing to "go for it", creating incredibly powerful epic magic that few other races dare. The way they do it is to load up on mitigating factors with nasty side effects. This approach is not limited to elven high magic casters, but elves do it so much more often than other races, it's seen as differentiating high magic from "ordinary epic magic" in a role playing sense.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2005 : 08:55:35
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Okay, so here's what I'm thinking for this artifact...
Most of these powers will only be available to elves.
A bonus metamagic feat for the weilder.
Increased spellcasting ability for the caster (likely a +1 level for spellcasting)
When used during the casting of epic spells, can act as a mitigating factor, providing a -10 DC.
Mythal affinity: The weilder can spend a turn to become attuned to a mythal. The weilder would know the powers of the mythal and how to use them. If they make some saving throw, they can ignore the restrictions built into the mythal (this only applies to the weilder, obviously). Also, a weilder would provide some sort of bonus when participating in the raising of a mythal.
That's what I'm thinking, thus far. Thoughts? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2005 : 09:05:15
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Oh, and in case anyone's wondering... I'm creating this artifact simply to drop it into an NPC's backstory. He's not going to use the artifact, and it's not even in his possession anymore, but he did find it.
I just want to have a good idea of what this artifact did, so it's significance in his story will make more sense. |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 01:06:13
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I'll be picky, just to help you think and refine your idea. ^_^
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Most of these powers will only be available to elves.
Which makes perfect sense; letting be for anyone would rob the item of it's Elven High Magic significance.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
A bonus metamagic feat for the weilder.
A few options:
1: As long as the elf is is possesion of the item, they have access to a feat of their choosing.
2: As per Rods of metamagic: i.e. not having to adjust the level of the spell for the enhanced effect.
3: Using the Sudden meta-magic feats from the Complete Arcane
The first is nice, the second is more "artifact-y" and the last is very usefull in day-to-day magic, but doesn't really lend itself to huge High Magic style castings. (Now that I think of it, the second one is like that also.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Increased spellcasting ability for the caster (likely a +1 level for spellcasting)
Very nice, very powerful, very artifact flavor.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
When used during the casting of epic spells, can act as a mitigating factor, providing a -10 DC.
Good effect, and combined with the High Mage PrC, works out very well.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Mythal affinity: The weilder can spend a turn to become attuned to a mythal. The weilder would know the powers of the mythal and how to use them. If they make some saving throw, they can ignore the restrictions built into the mythal (this only applies to the weilder, obviously). Also, a weilder would provide some sort of bonus when participating in the raising of a mythal.
My favorite, simply because of the flavor. And, makes the item a little risky (especially now that it's lost). After all, a not-so-nice elf (Drow, Fey'ri, teen-age angst elf) could potentially use it for ill effect. I like this. ^_^
So, yea, my thoughts. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 03:52:14
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Thanks for your input! A couple of t'ings to think on, definitely...
Anyone else? |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 07:28:13
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As for what this artifact "is" Wooly (as opposed to what it can do), have a read of "City of Ravens Bluff" by Ed and check out the history section that talks about elves and their involvement with Sarbreen/Ravens Bluff. It might give you some more grist for the mill or at least a tie-in to the established Realms if you decide to go this way.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 12:22:15
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
As for what this artifact "is" Wooly (as opposed to what it can do), have a read of "City of Ravens Bluff" by Ed and check out the history section that talks about elves and their involvement with Sarbreen/Ravens Bluff. It might give you some more grist for the mill or at least a tie-in to the established Realms if you decide to go this way.
-- George Krashos
Thanks, Krash, I shall do that. |
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Sorenna_Melruth
Acolyte
24 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 22:30:38
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Since it is now a Epic Prestige Class, I believe that they took away the penalties yes, the Pre-requistes are stiff in return for this and to accomplish such is a real feat.
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History is written by those who survive such terriable times,and every person is a hero, and every person is a villan it depends on who's telling the tale. |
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A simple question on elven high magic...
