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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Mar 2005 : 21:12:23
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I currently play in one campaign and DM another (we alternate weeks) and the only two people in our gaming group that read the novels are me and the other DM. In the game that I play do I think it gives me an advantage or ruins my fun because I read the novels and own all the sourcesbooks? Absolutely not. It is very easy for me to know that Jattikus Coldstone Hornblower the Strongheart Bard does not have the same info as Eric the grad student.
Last session we found an old map that had "Vaprak's cave" as a place that we wanted to explore. Now, because I knew that Vaprak was the god of Ogre's doesn't mean my PC went out and bought Giant Bane items. I didn't tell anyother players who vaprak was because I didn't want to ruin their fun (although it probably wouldn't have).
Like Rinonalyrna Fathomlin stated, it I do think it would be insulting if my DM said to me, hey, The Rite has info on who Vaprak is so I don't want you reading the book. Does he not think I am capable of separating? And, he is the DM but he doesn't have any influence on my out of game life. If I want to see how the year of rogue dragons plays out I will read it, regardless of his desires.
Now, if I am running a published adventure (such as City of the Spider Queen) I would prefer they not read it first for suprise value but I would not pretend to control what they can and can not buy.
If players can't read sourcebooks how are they supposed to know the common knowledge that the people of the region would know. Lets say the PC makes his character from Tilverton. He is denied access to sourcebooks, how is he to know his town has been destroyed? Or the great situation of....I wrote my character history, I've been a cleric of Bane for 10 years. What do you mean he only came back in 1372? Guess it's back to the drawing board.
I feel that trying to disallow your players from reading sourcebooks you are insulting their ability to role-play and inhibiting the amount of background they can give their character.
But you seem to think it's a good idea to ban source material so who are we to judge. |
Edited by - Chosen of Bane on 19 Mar 2005 21:15:09 |
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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2005 : 17:50:51
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| In all fairness, Dargoth doesn't ban all source material. |
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Zigywig
Acolyte
Australia
4 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 06:01:31
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hehehe...I am said player. Dargoth is not that bad...He's just enthusiastic about FR. I am also the one running the The Worlds Largest Dungeon (in FR setting) and the Star Wars campaign...thus I find the DM's material indispensible.
I'm also a big fan of FR and own/or am reading all of the novels - thus I love the source books and will continue to buy them. Though my character is completely ignorant of said events/happenings within Toril. But it is funny seeing the look on Dargoth's face when you show him your copy of the latest FR sourcebook. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 06:25:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Zigywig
hehehe...I am said player. Dargoth is not that bad...He's just enthusiastic about FR. I am also the one running the The Worlds Largest Dungeon (in FR setting) and the Star Wars campaign...thus I find the DM's material indispensible.
I'm also a big fan of FR and own/or am reading all of the novels - thus I love the source books and will continue to buy them. Though my character is completely ignorant of said events/happenings within Toril. But it is funny seeing the look on Dargoth's face when you show him your copy of the latest FR sourcebook.
So what day are we play WLD this weekend?
PS: Hes the one who ran the Cleric of Tempus |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 21 Mar 2005 06:27:03 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 06:34:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Zigywig
hehehe...I am said player....
I'm also a big fan of FR and own/or am reading all of the novels - thus I love the source books and will continue to buy them. Though my character is completely ignorant of said events/happenings within Toril. But it is funny seeing the look on Dargoth's face when you show him your copy of the latest FR sourcebook.
You ever need some information from a product or novel that Dargoth won't allow, you just message me and I'll hook you up.
SB who chants "Attica, Attica..." as he continues to browse the forums. |
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Zigywig
Acolyte
Australia
4 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 22:13:59
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Either Friday or Monday.
Saturday I'm car hunting, Sunday with family. |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 23:37:13
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Well, I have a simliar problem that comes from metagaming. I have several players who think it's cute/fun/funny to try and find a reason why their player would do what he normally wouldn't based on information he shouldn't have.
Um, okay, that made little-to-no sense, but I'm going to leave it in my post for the laugh. 
What I am trying to say is that I have players who try to argue their way into using whatever player knowledge they can. To use the above Vaprak example, if their character did not know who Vaprak was, but the player did, they would make sure the character researched the subject until they were positive that they could argue that their character would know as much as the player did. It can be irritating, but I have found that it is easier to let them think they figured it all out, then change things around on them at the end to 'put them in their place'. Oddly enough, it doesn't seem to be working. 
Regardless, I still think it should be okay for players to buy what books they want. It makes it easier to not have to worry about things that are commmon knowledge (the player's already know and I don't have to waste game time explaining them). Also, I'll be the first to admit (but by no means the last) that I'm not perfect. So if a player sees that I missed an important bit of info, he/she is free to let me know. At the very least I know they're paying attention! |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 02:55:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Melfius
Um, okay, that made little-to-no sense, but I'm going to leave it in my post for the laugh.
Have no fear, it made sense. And your players sound...colorful. |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 07:28:23
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Have no fear, it made sense. And your players sound...colorful.
Well, a few descriptors come to mind, but 'colorful' wasn't one of them! |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2005 : 04:52:07
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I remember when my friend would DM Greyhawk and I had the Realms, he rarely looked into my FR stuff, but I didn't have a problem if he did. I on the other hand, always looked at new Greyhawk stuff, but I never shared any "metagame" interest with the other PCs in the campaign. I was just too curious to not read "City of Greyhawk" or "From the Ashes" to let them slip by, and besides, it lead so some of our great Waterdeep/Greyhawk debates . . .
In a long term campaign in a setting your players are bound to learn a few secrets that will stay with them even when they make up new characters in a new part of the world. Eventually its a matter of maturity. Then again . . . I remember the old 1st edition DMG rants about what is and isn't a proper game of D&D and what players must never know lurks in the DMG and all of that. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2005 : 18:50:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, and SB? You think you can stop me from getting the Waterdeep book? That's like trying to stop Drizzt from whining about how tough it is to be a drow! 
Are you insulting my favorite forgotten realms character, Wooly? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2005 : 19:44:35
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, and SB? You think you can stop me from getting the Waterdeep book? That's like trying to stop Drizzt from whining about how tough it is to be a drow!
Are you insulting my favorite forgotten realms character, Wooly?
Apparently I am. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike Drizzt Do'Urden. I just think he's had too much airtime, and I got tired of the whiny nature of his little essays or interludes or whatever you call them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 01:32:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Apparently I am. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike Drizzt Do'Urden. I just think he's had too much airtime, and I got tired of the whiny nature of his little essays or interludes or whatever you call them.
Essays/Interludes.  |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 11:06:08
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All right Wooly, I forgive you.
But think about this: His essays may seem a bit whiny but he is a drow living on the surface and those who don`t know him hate him! It would be like a black person living somewhere where almost everyone is a member of KKK! Under these circumstances it`s no wonder he gets depressed. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 14:48:33
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| Actually I would say Drizzt's situation is more like a person of Middle Eastern decent living in the United States. Many people hate and fear you when they don't even know you, but they may have had good reason to hate and fear someone like you. The fear is understandable, but really sadly misplaced, in both the real world and in the story lines. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 16:13:36
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Khorne, KnightErrantJR, I'll grant that both of you are right.
Yes, Drizzt has to deal with a lot of crap from surface-dwellers, simply because of his race. And yes, that's got to draw vacuum after a while...
But... I got the point back in The Legacy. I don't need to know that it sucks to be Drizzt in every single book. One or two complaints, entirely justified. Every book containing at least one "Woe is me, a friendly drow in an unfriendly surface world  " is too much for me. Continuous repetitions of the same complaint is whining.
Liriel Baenre had to deal with the same prejudices... Did she waste time complaining or moping about it? Nope, she shrugged her shoulders and got on with her life. That I can respect. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 03 Apr 2005 16:15:52 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 16:18:11
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Oh, I'll not disagree with you about the whinning comment, I just thought the analogy needed a bit of clarification. And I'm not a Drizzt basher by nature . . . 5 years ago I would have vehemently defended Drizzt reputation, but quite frankly, I am a little burned out on him after the "Hunter's Blades" trilogy.
As as a grow older I am starting to realize I am actually more of a Bruenor fan . . . |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 19:58:40
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Sirius, I respect you greatly and have enjoyed a lot of points you have made on a lot of topics, but I have to say that I don't think that I have said anything wrong, nor do I think that my comments comparing a fantasy world to a real world analogy are out of line. Considering the author himself, R A Salvatore, has mentioned the theme of racism, a real world evil, I don't see how my comment is beyond the pale.
That having been said, if anyone was offended by my comment, I would welcome a conversation with them. If I have said anything out of turn I would apologize to them.
And I also apologize to Big Al for the derailment of this thread, and would respectfully ask that if said comments on the above should need to be hashed out that we all do so in another thread that is more appropriate to the topic.
Thanks everyone. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 20:13:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Liriel Baenre had to deal with the same prejudices... Did she waste time complaining or moping about it? Nope, she shrugged her shoulders and got on with her life. That I can respect.
That's what I respect too. Complain, but then move on. Do something. Don't be too wracked with indecision. Drizzt is very brave in battle, but not very brave when it comes to dealing with his emotions and personal relationships.
There are other reasons besides this that I'm not too keen on Drizzt, and the same goes for most of the other people here who aren't that keen on him either.
quote:
You both might wish to be a bit more general and tread carefullly when it comes to using real world examples to try and illustrate a point about a fantasy character in a made up world.
Agreed. Both real world examples weren't very good, because in Faerun, the fact is most drow ARE evil, and the fear of drow most people have is more than justified. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Gods Robert Wiese has a lot to answer for
