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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Mar 2005 : 22:37:14
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quote:
But your DM might just be banking on the fact that you probably don't remember them very well. So get Lords of Madness, and get the scoop on why these devious slavers are walking the streets of your character's home city.
am i the only one who doesnīt like (to put it mildly!) that reasoning? that argument might as well be used to recommend players to buy the modules their dmīs are preparing (or dmīing) right now: "...your DM might just be banking on the fact that you probably don't read the module he prepares/dmīs at the moment. So get it and know everything beforehand." 
quote:
I just hope that this tome expands upon, rather than re-hashs, the racial details for the illithids and beholders, that has come before it.
having seen several of the last generic products, i am rather pessimistic about that. but of course i hope wotc proves me wrong. |
Edited by - tauster on 30 Mar 2005 22:38:34 |
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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2005 : 22:49:35
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quote:
Originally posted by tauster
quote:
But your DM might just be banking on the fact that you probably don't remember them very well. So get Lords of Madness, and get the scoop on why these devious slavers are walking the streets of your character's home city.
am i the only one who doesnīt like (to put it mildly!) that reasoning? that argument might as well be used to recommend players to buy the modules their dmīs are preparing (or dmīing) right now: "...your DM might just be banking on the fact that you probably don't read the module he prepares/dmīs at the moment. So get it and know everything beforehand."
I thought the same thing when I read that. Encouraging players to get out and spite the DM so he can't surprise them. Or stay ahead of the DM's storyline. Either way, it's portraying 'player vs DM' as being the way to play. I realize this is just advertising. Still, the game is weighed heavily in favour of the players, both in products released and in the way so many artifacts (like moonblades) or adversaries (like archdevils) have been toned down. There is very little support for DMs (I guess because there are fewer of them), it's a bit insulting to them, to market a product written for them in this way. At least they could have been a little less blatent about it. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2005 : 08:06:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
I'll pick it up now just because a lot of those races are in Spelljammer. :)
That's part of my motivation, as well, though I fully expect a total absence of Spelljammer references. That's part of the reason I'm not eager to rush out and spend the cover price for it.
That's a delightful aside for me. The planar lore comes first, of course. But I'll appreciate the SJ-type details as well.
I'm also curious about learning more about the grell. Although, I do not hope the only reason they were included in this tome is because they have tentacles...  . There will be, I'm assuming, some relevant information on the race that can be shared.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 31 Mar 2005 08:08:12 |
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2005 : 09:14:59
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm also curious about learning more about the grell. Although, I do not hope the only reason they were included in this tome is because they have tentacles... . There will be, I'm assuming, some relevant information on the race that can be shared.
the information about grell is the main reason iīll looking forward to reading this book.
apart from the entry in the mc thereīs precious little lore about them (no "ecology of..." in dragon mag), and i still remember my failure to portray the grell encounter in night below in a realistic way...
the mc entry hints towards an interesting social structure as it mentiones distinct "classes" of grell (worker, philosopher, patriarch) and it decribes the grell as higher-than-average intelligent, but thatīs pretty much all we know about them. there is not very much old information to rehash, raising our chances of seing new lore. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2005 : 05:27:23
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| Lords of Madness has a new article up, You'd be crazy Not to! |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 06 Apr 2005 05:28:11 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2005 : 06:00:24
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| And looking at that article, it certainly appears they've made the neogi terrestrial... I don't like that. Take neogi out of their Deathspiders, and they're just something else to stick a sword in. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2005 : 08:51:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And looking at that article, it certainly appears they've made the neogi terrestrial... I don't like that.
That's disappointing to hear, but not entirely unexpected. We knew there'd be some "changes" to the existing material regarding these aberrations.
I wonder what other "changes" are in store for the rest of the detailed races...?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2005 : 21:46:15
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I can't get too sidetracked with Lords of Madness since I have to save my coppers for Champions of Ruin and the Waterdeep sourcebook, as well as the unnamed "opposite" book to Champions of Ruin. Dispite that, I loved Draconomicon and Libris Mortis, although the "race" books didn't seem that great to me, Races of Stone being the most useful to me.
I still wish we would get maybe an overview product that at least give a cursory view of Kara-Tur, Maztica, and Zhakara . . . perhaps a "Far Lands" sourcebook or some such.
But I doubt it will happen. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 10:05:00
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Theres a Lords of Maddness excerpt and Esigner interview up at the WOTC
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050408a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ps/20050408a
and all I can say is....Meh
I was thinking of buying this book but after reading the excerpt and a few of the coments from people who have it, I have to say Lords of Maddness will be one I give the miss. I bought the Draconomicon and Libris Mortis but the third races book doesnt inspire me at all. (correct me if wrong but I didnt spot a 4th Race book in the Complete 2005 cataloge)
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I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 15:43:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I was thinking of buying this book but after reading the excerpt and a few of the coments from people who have it, I have to say Lords of Maddness will be one I give the miss.
Thank you for the links to the excerpts and interview. I had already planned to pass and these new updates haven't changed my mind. I have enjoyed encounters in gaming in the past involving beholders or mind flayers. However, I have never been that interested in either race to purchase a tome devoted to them and other abominations. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 16:18:21
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| I am going to try to get the book, but I'm going to get it on the cheap from eBay. I want it, but not enough to think of paying cover price. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 16:50:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I am going to try to get the book, but I'm going to get it on the cheap from eBay. I want it, but not enough to think of paying cover price.
Define cheap. How much off cover are you willing to pay for it? I recall the only reason I gave Draconomicon a try was I got it at a great discount from Amazon. However, with as much as I enjoyed that tome, I would have paid cover. Nice how things worked out.  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 17:57:19
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I am going to try to get the book, but I'm going to get it on the cheap from eBay. I want it, but not enough to think of paying cover price.
Define cheap. How much off cover are you willing to pay for it? I recall the only reason I gave Draconomicon a try was I got it at a great discount from Amazon. However, with as much as I enjoyed that tome, I would have paid cover. Nice how things worked out.
$20 or so. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 18:29:52
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ENWorld reports in today's news that some people already have a copy of Lords of Madness and are answering questions about the tome in this thread.
Just an FYI for those wishing more information about the tome from someone who actually has it. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 18:35:51
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In this updated list, the following item caught my eye:
D&D Fantastic Locations: Fane of the Drow - 9/9
Well ENWorld has provided some additional information from Charles Ryan regarding this product. Below is a quote from him found on today's ENWorld main news page:
quote:
So, last year we put out a couple map products (the Map Folios I, II, and 3-D). They were kind of an experimental product, and frankly they didn't turn out the way we would have liked--but they did really well. So we thought "heh, what if we made a really good map product?"
We put our heads together and thought about what sort of map product would be interesting and most useful to players, and the Fantastic Locations series is what we came up with.
Essentially, what they are isn't just a set of diagrams of interesting locations, but a set of diagrams that you can actually use in play. Then we added some material for both RPG play (interesting encounters and a mini-adventure) and minis skirmish play (scenarios).
The basic premise is the same as the Map Folios: Cool maps of interesting places that you can use in any campaign. The difference is in the immediate utility to the player. If players like the FL products, you can count on seeing more in the future.
Charles Ryan also had this to add about the adventures coming out later this year:
quote:
As for adventures, the Eberron series of adventures (last year and this) marked our return to adventure publication. You'll notice in that same catalog that there's an FR adventure coming out in September. You might see more, for the campaign settings and for D&D in general, in the future.
(Philosophically speaking, back in the day we figured the d20 community would jump all over adventure publication, and we'd focus on the core rules and high-end products we're uniquely qualified to produce. But the d20 publishers quickly abandoned adventures in favor of competing with us in the realm of rulebooks and supplements (Sun Tzu would not be proud), leaving that part of the market underserved. So we're going to serve it!)
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Edited by - SiriusBlack on 09 Apr 2005 18:36:29 |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2005 : 04:46:15
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That's funny, because I was just at a panel at a convention today, and they said the reason D20 is failing is because they got into the adventure supplements, it was a losing market since 1 person in every group buys it.
Competing with Wizards? That's funny. The first thing everyone did in d20/OGL was race books, something Wizards took what.. 4-5 years to do? Now that Wizards is catching up to everyone else, class books, races books, envirnoment books, they're driving everyone else out of business. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2005 : 04:47:52
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
ENWorld reports in today's news that some people already have a copy of Lords of Madness and are answering questions about the tome in this thread..
I got it, picked it up at Icon yesterday, my first purchase. :) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2005 : 05:23:34
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Now that Wizards is catching up to everyone else, class books, races books, envirnoment books, they're driving everyone else out of business.
I don't know if Wizards is driving everyone out of business so much as the D20 market itself is beginning to have an attrition on companies. I recall well over a year ago, a D20 vendor mentioning that a vast majority of the D20 companies currently in existence would be out of operations in another year or so. Not sure if that came true, but the D20 market sure has seemed to level off the past couple of years. I don't think this is so much as Wizards getting involved in other areas as much as the "new fad" is over and consumers are settling on the one/two D20 companies that they prefer to buy from. It will be interesting to see how WOTC's attempts at selling adventures for the Realms goes this time around given all that has taken place. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2005 : 05:29:19
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Cheaply hopefully. You know, Attack on Myth Drannor style. :)
Forstburn put 1 company out of business cause Wizards basically stole the idea.
Why buy races books for D20 when Wizards puts them out?
Wizards holds 30% of the market. White Wolf 25%. Everyone else is 6% or less. The companies that survive will be companies that come up with their own system, continue their own system with campaigns worlds spawned off of D20, or companies that get licenses people want to play in.
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"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2005 : 05:32:56
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| I think part of the problem is that the market was over-saturated. D20 was a big thing in the gamer community, and everyone jumped aboard. Now the gamers are drifting back to their tried-and-true settings, and the market is simply drying up. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2005 : 05:54:05
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Why buy races books for D20 when Wizards puts them out?
For awhile there, I found better quality in some D20 products than I did WOTC. But, now, the D20 companies I used to purchase from, haven't gotten a sale from me in at least a year. I'm only buying so far one D20 product this year. An expensive one, but still just one.
quote:
Wizards holds 30% of the market. White Wolf 25%. Everyone else is 6% or less. The companies that survive will be companies that come up with their own system, continue their own system with campaigns worlds spawned off of D20, or companies that get licenses people want to play in.
Diversity seems to be the key to the companies, such as Green Ronin; Mongoose; Malhavoc Press, that are surviving and apparently making a profit. I use italics because this is all just based on speculation rather than any concrete evidence. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2005 : 05:55:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Now the gamers are drifting back to their tried-and-true settings, and the market is simply drying up.
And that's not really a bad thing. If anything, consumers being more cautious with their $$$ will require all companies including WOTC with their releases featured in this thread to produce higher quality items. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 05:21:38
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Hmmm...
Aside from the chapter on the Magic of War, I can't really see a lot in this tome that will provide me with useful information that I've not already devised for myself. Having played Warhammer for more years than I can count, I have slowly developed my own interpretations when it comes to large scale warfare in D&D. Not to mention my experiences with the 2e Battlesystem rules for AD&D which also fostered a way of thinking when it came to running campaigns centered around large conflicts involving more than just an average party of adventures.
For myself, I think I'll skip purchasing this one. But I would like to know whether any other scribes here will find any use from it and whether they wish themselves to buy it.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 08 May 2005 05:22:55 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 05:43:18
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
For myself, I think I'll skip purchasing this one. But I would like to know whether any other scribes here will find any use from it and whether they wish themselves to buy it.
I'm passing on this tome as well. I just haven't found anything in the WOTC postings that makes me think I'd find it useful. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 17:55:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Besides, I need to keep money handy for several upcoming tomes.
Indeed, my decision to pass on this month's gaming releases from WOTC has allowed me to keep more money in my pocket for next month. |
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Rudar Dimble
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 18:43:51
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Besides, I need to keep money handy for several upcoming tomes.
Indeed, my decision to pass on this month's gaming releases from WOTC has allowed me to keep more money in my pocket for next month.
Totally agree. With Waterdeep, the 'Champions' books coming up are just being released, there's plenty to buy. And then I don't even mention upcoming novels |
Jesus saves... and takes Â― damage |
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Updated Release Schedule for 2005
