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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Mar 2005 : 23:38:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
That stomach-riding scene sounds great, can I get a page reference?
Towards the end of the third book, when they were trying to get to Shade's mythallar. I can't recall the exact page number, and I'm not subjecting myself to that book to find it.  |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2005 : 01:41:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I could care less about who writes the RSEs... I just want a good tale with good characters.
Me too. ;) The Rogue Dragon series is a good example of an RSE that hasn't sacrificed wonderfully realized characters for the sake of the plot--indeed, a good author should be able to write both a great plot and great characters without having to sacrifice one for the other. But still, I loved the writing of Byers before I picked up the Rage; I always thought his characterization was excellent.
I like the writing of Richard Lee Byers simply because he *is* a great writer, not because his recent trilogy is about crazed dragons running rampant throughout the Realms. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2005 : 02:02:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I could care less about who writes the RSEs... I just want a good tale with good characters.
Me too. ;) The Rogue Dragon series is a good example of an RSE that hasn't sacrificed wonderfully realized characters for the sake of the plot--
Honestly, I don't call Rogue Dragons a RSE. For starters, IMHO, it's set in a rather dead part of Faerun. The entire part of the Realms could be raised and it wouldn't effect anyone. You can disagree with me on that point if you like, but that's how I feel.
I've enjoyed it thus far, but I believe it just goes along with the whole new faces/new places push. And is furthered by reeking of 3.5 supplement pimpage instead of supporting and prompting and being relevent to Forgotten Realms supplement material that progresses the setting.
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"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2005 : 02:22:02
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
I've enjoyed it thus far, but I believe it just goes along with the whole new faces/new places push.
I would agree with you on that. I like The Rogue Dragons books not because of what they are about, but because of how they are done. The Rage is supposed to affect dragons all over Faerun, and it's true that we are mostly getting a view of what is happening in Damara, Impiltur, and the Moonsea. However, I'm not sure if the books would really be that much better if they had the protagonists literally scuttling all over the map of Faerun and giving us, the readers, some kind of ersatz World Tour of the Realms in disguise. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2005 : 05:01:29
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
I've enjoyed it thus far, but I believe it just goes along with the whole new faces/new places push. And is furthered by reeking of 3.5 supplement pimpage instead of supporting and prompting and being relevent to Forgotten Realms supplement material that progresses the setting.
I like the Dragon series a lot, but I do agree with this. It's like the Draconimicon and the Rogue Dragons books should be a complete set.
As far as it being a RSE, I'm hoping that there is some mention of a rage elsewhere in Faerun in another novel. Take the Avatar series. I found it to be very rewarding to discover that the Time of Troubles was going on simultaneously in Siege of Darkness, the Avatar Series, and part of the Shadow of the Avatar series. That's a RSE. The Rogue Dragons series doesn't seem like a RSE.
It reminds me very much of what is happening with Erevis Cale. His tale could potentially be a RSE... if he weren't around, of course. The events in the War of the Spider Queen series don't even seem like they're affecting the entire Realms. A true RSE is one whose ripples are felt in more than one series. |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2005 : 06:01:15
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We are getting 2 Anthalogies for Realms of Dragons in addition to the trilogy so maybe the other 2 books will have references to whats going on outside the Moonsea/Cold Lands region
I wonder if the Waterdeep source book will mention stuff thats happaning around the Sea of swords with regard to the rage |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2005 : 06:25:21
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I'd be surprised at all if there's more then a sentence regarding Rogue dragons in either Waterdeep products.
In regards to WOTSQ, I believe it to be a mistake for it to be 6 books by 6 different authors, that's JUST NOW finishing. It's completely held up the Underdark, as well as ruined us for 2 years without FR adventure modules because of the marketing strategy of the time.
You'll notice that Shade's return has also been pretty much been dropped too.
Basically the flavor of the moment and push on. New faces/new places.
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"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 15 Mar 2005 06:26:56 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2005 : 07:06:45
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
In regards to WOTSQ, I believe it to be a mistake for it to be 6 books by 6 different authors, that's JUST NOW finishing. It's completely held up the Underdark, as well as ruined us for 2 years without FR adventure modules because of the marketing strategy of the time.
How did it hold up the Underdark? I never heard of any delay in publishing this tome. And what source do you have for the tie-in for this series and the lack of adventure modules? |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2005 : 14:05:19
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
How did it hold up the Underdark? I never heard of any delay in publishing this tome. And what source do you have for the tie-in for this series and the lack of adventure modules?
Four words... Year of the Drow.
City of the Spider Queen bomb, COTSQ caused them to say no more adventures.
Holding up the Underdark meant that there's been no real progress in what's going on down there, not the Underdark region book. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2005 : 16:27:08
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Four words... Year of the Drow.
City of the Spider Queen bomb, COTSQ caused them to say no more adventures.
I blame that on marketing and the adventure itself rather than the WOTSQ series.
quote:
Holding up the Underdark meant that there's been no real progress in what's going on down there, not the Underdark region book.
Ah, thank you for the clarification. Interesting that despite the Underdark's most powerful race being in a state of flux, it didn't stop them from publishing the Underdark region book. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2005 : 18:11:39
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Four words... Year of the Drow.
City of the Spider Queen bomb, COTSQ caused them to say no more adventures.
I blame that on marketing and the adventure itself rather than the WOTSQ series.
Like I said, Year of the Drow. Their stupid marketing campaign.
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlackquote:
Holding up the Underdark meant that there's been no real progress in what's going on down there, not the Underdark region book.
Ah, thank you for the clarification. Interesting that despite the Underdark's most powerful race being in a state of flux, it didn't stop them from publishing the Underdark region book.
No it didn't, and aside from new stats, the Underdark region book has absolutely little new information for 1372+ |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2005 : 19:26:14
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
quote:
Originally posted by Crust
Chosen riding in people's stomachs (the worst scene in all of FR)
Yeap, definately bad.
::whince::  I must say that this particular scene really stuck in my mind as been absolutely awful and ruined the trilogy for me. I will still stand by my previous words that I did enjoy the trilogy but it was only a few weeks back when I was giving a review of this trilogy to a friend that I said that there was a terrible scene that will make you cringe 
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Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2005 : 19:29:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Just to make it clear that I'm not some anti-Denning person... Parched Sea, The Veiled Dragon and Dragonwall are all books I have enjoyed. Crucible is a personal fave among Realms novels.
I read the first book of the Twilight Giants, and it simply failed to grab me. Faces of Deception struck me as utterly pointless -- I was left wondering what the point of the book was, or even if there was one.
Ahh, I forgot about Denning being the author of The Veiled Dragon, and I thoroughly enjoyed this novel also. In fact, it sticks as one of the most enjoyed of the Harpers Series for me 
I have yet to read The Twilight Giants trilogy, as I tended to leave the more confined localised novels to the end of my backlist.... which has been a mistake being as the Lost Empires series, for one, has been amazing so far!!
On the whole, from what I have read, I have enjoyed Dennings work  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Paec_djinn
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2005 : 00:53:51
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I must admit that I liked the Return trilogy when I first read it, but mainly because then I was new to the realms. But after reading about this inconsistencies and such, I'm rather swayed now.
The only other Troy Denning book I've read is Waterdeep and for me the book was excellent.
For me, the main reason why Troy Denning isn't listed as major author is not because of the quality of his books, (a lot of Ed's books aren't that good either) but because of the rate in which one of his books is published.
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2005 : 20:53:55
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Well, if you liked them, then they were good novels, for you, then -- which isn't the same as good Realms novels.
I think -- apart from sales data which I don't have -- Troy is more of a jobbing author with some Realms books whereas Ed created the Realms and Bob and Elaine made their reputation there. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2005 : 21:18:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
::whince:: I must say that this particular scene really stuck in my mind as been absolutely awful and ruined the trilogy for me. I will still stand by my previous words that I did enjoy the trilogy but it was only a few weeks back when I was giving a review of this trilogy to a friend that I said that there was a terrible scene that will make you cringe
Yes, it certainly hurt the third book for me.
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"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2005 : 17:00:31
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I have to defend Troy a bit here . . . I know I haven't always liked all his books or all parts of a given book . . . but Troy is much more a Realms author than some of the one shot drek books we got back in the nineties. Books that might use one city name from a map and then otherwise could have been set in a random fantasy setting with almost no outside references.
I have enjoyed Ruha since she first appeared, and I think she makes an interesting Harper agent. I actually like Malik as a sort of comic relief that Cyric is constantly torturing by giving him the "honor" of undertaking dangerous missions. I really liked Aris, especially since we haven't seen a lot of giants since Troy's Twilight Giants (except Gerti and her frost giants, credit where credit is due). I think that Elminster, Khelbun (in the first two books), Laeral (again, the first two books), Peirgeron, Alusair, and Vergerdahast were all treated well in the early parts of the story. In fact the final book seems to be what everyone cites as their reason for not liking the series.
I reiterate my point about the Chosen working together as a critism though. I think they would come together to plan, then break back into their power groups to help. For example, Khelbun and Laeral would go back and organize the Moonstars and the forces of Waterdeep, Alustriel would mobilize the Silver Marches resources, Storm and Dove would work to get the Dales and Cormyr going, etc.
I still think in the end there are far worse authors, both in technical abilities and in Realms flavor, and becuase of Troy we now have a pre-history of Faerun that includes a giant empire (I don't know how Ed envisioned it, but I think it makes it interesting). |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2005 : 18:15:04
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I have to defend Troy a bit here . . . I know I haven't always liked all his books or all parts of a given book . . . but Troy is much more a Realms author than some of the one shot drek books we got back in the nineties. Books that might use one city name from a map and then otherwise could have been set in a random fantasy setting with almost no outside references.
I understand the desire to defend him. However, I don't think the majority of posters have criticized TD for his books lacking Realms flavor as you describe above.
Now, to really stir the pot. I wonder would TD be getting as much criticism as he currently is were he to be posting at Candlekeep? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2005 : 23:03:41
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I have to defend Troy a bit here . . . I know I haven't always liked all his books or all parts of a given book . . . but Troy is much more a Realms author than some of the one shot drek books we got back in the nineties. Books that might use one city name from a map and then otherwise could have been set in a random fantasy setting with almost no outside references.
I understand the desire to defend him. However, I don't think the majority of posters have criticized TD for his books lacking Realms flavor as you describe above.
Now, to really stir the pot. I wonder would TD be getting as much criticism as he currently is were he to be posting at Candlekeep?
I'd tone it down a bit, but I'd still criticize his depiction of the white hats in that trilogy.
I'd also ask for more info on Deliah The White.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2005 : 07:47:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I understand the desire to defend him. However, I don't think the majority of posters have criticized TD for his books lacking Realms flavor as you describe above.
Now, to really stir the pot. I wonder would TD be getting as much criticism as he currently is were he to be posting at Candlekeep?
Almost certainly not. I think even the (comparatively mild) complaints about Drizzt wouldn't come up as frequently, either, had RAS posted here regularly. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2005 : 16:04:22
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| Thanks to Winterfox and WR for honest replies. I thought for sure I'd get entirely "oh, no everything would be the same" replies. |
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Topic |
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Why isn't Troy Denning Listed as a Major Author?
