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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 04:09:12
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Since I'm fairly new to the boards I apologize if this has been discussed but from reading posts on the boards I get the impression that people were not satisfied with the Return of the Archwizards novels. Is this a correct assumption?
I am curious as to why the trilogy (and anthology) was not well received? I liked the trilogy...a lot actually.
Just curious as to others opinons.
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 04:14:14
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For me, it was just another novel that destroyed things, Tilverton, Evereska, some of the other elves, some of the army from Waterdeep, the Phaerimm.
All the cannon fodder the Phaerimm seemed to just have. Mindflayers, etc. Where did they all come from?
The Chosen just seemed out of place and acted out of character.
It still bugs me that there's a half-weave/half-shadow weave Mythal when in a earlier book we were told that two strong magics of the two weaves would cause problems with each other. For example, Elminster being thrown into Hell for that reason.
That's just off the top of my head. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 06 Mar 2005 04:32:39 |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 04:25:45
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Yeah, I guess it was a bit ridiculous how many Mind Flayers and Beholders came out of the woodwork.
I guess I don't mind the destroying of stuff though. I like "Realms Shaking" stuff so I can work it into my campaigns and give my PC's a feel of not just playing in the same generic world all the time.
The whole Mythallar stuff didn't make a lot of since to me either.
The Chosen didn't bother me because whenever a novel has something that is potentiall world changing I always think to myself "yeah right, like the Chosen would let this happen." That's why I'm kind of glad they were involved. I can defitely see why people wouldn't like their involvement though.
I guess what I really liked about the novels was the incorporation of armies from so many major areas working towards similar goals. From Waterdeep and Evereska battling to the council of Cormyr and the Dales. I always enjoy series that incorporate many areas of Faerun.
The Last Mythal is shaping up to yield similar results in terms of spanning a great portion of Faerun. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 04:35:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
Since I'm fairly new to the boards I apologize if this has been discussed but from reading posts on the boards I get the impression that people were not satisfied with the Return of the Archwizards novels. Is this a correct assumption?
I've seen more negative comments about this series than some others. Still a thing to recall is that the online community represents only a fraction of consumers who buy novels.
quote:
I am curious as to why the trilogy (and anthology) was not well received? I liked the trilogy...a lot actually.
It's been awhile since I read the novels. However, for me it comes down to poor character development and lack of anything interesting plot wise overall as to why I didn't enjoy the series. The Shade became one big yawn to this reader as the series progressed.
quote:
Just curious as to others opinons.
Do a search and you'll be able to find other threads devoted to the series. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 04:35:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
[bThe whole Mythallar stuff didn't make a lot of since to me either.
The Chosen didn't bother me because whenever a novel has something that is potentiall world changing I always think to myself "yeah right, like the Chosen would let this happen." That's why I'm kind of glad they were involved. I can defitely see why people wouldn't like their involvement though.
:) Well since I've helped you over on the WOTC boards, I think, I won't tease you about liking Realms Shaking Events. :)
However, I edited my above reply about the Chosen to include more about why I didn't like them in that series.
And to get back to the RSE's. They are nice, I suppose, but I'll never include them. FR is not about grand events that span all of Faerun. It's about local tales about people, merc companies, merchant companies, etc. Sigh but TSR and now WOTC has changed that because they have to try to keep adding more and more RSE's to make the setting "interesting." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 06 Mar 2005 04:36:52 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 04:36:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
The Last Mythal is shaping up to yield similar results in terms of spanning a great portion of Faerun.
Yes, it does have an epic scope already and they are only at Book One in the series. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 04:38:23
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Sigh but TSR and now WOTC has changed that because they have to try to keep adding more and more
Speaking of adding more and more, did I just see a recently published FR sourcebook, that did not include a new race?
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 04:41:29
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Sigh but TSR and now WOTC has changed that because they have to try to keep adding more and more
Speaking of adding more and more, did I just see a recently published FR sourcebook, that did not include a new race?
Heheeh. Well Rich has been trying to find a way to include the Races of the Wild races. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 06:02:37
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My biggest problem with the trilogy was that the white hats were protrayed as a bunch of incompetent idiots. Other than the main group, just about every opportunity where the good guys had the chance to act intelligently, they instead did something to make things worse.
That's my main reason for not liking it, though the fact that the characters and the plot weren't all that interesting certainly wasn't a point in the trilogy's favor. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 06:43:25
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My biggest problem with the series was that like others have mentioned, mindflayers and beholders just kinda appeared out of nowhere. Seriously, when was the last time we heard about legions of beholders and mindflayers of this proportion active around Evereska? Wouldn't it be more accurate to feature goblin and orcish tribes as the grunts of an army, considering they are like the most populous in that region?
Also, I didn't like how all these epic or well-known characters all just kinda got bunched together into one story. For example, there was Malik, Ruha, Piergeron, Vangerdahast, Wulfgreth, and like a dozen other NPCs that had cameos in the series. I know it's to emphasize on the epicness and seriousness of the series, but it was just a bit too much even for me.
One minor thing that got me kinda annoyed was the teleportation in the books. For some reason, every wizard (powerful or weak) suffered from "teleportation distortion". I've, for some reason, never heard of this happening or have such an emphasis in other FR stories. From phaerrims to Chosens of Mystra, we see them "suffer" from this and pay big consequences for it. The side effects of teleportation shouldn't be this great, should it? However, in other books you read about wizards teleporting from one side of the Realms to another as if stepping into another room. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 17:06:35
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
One minor thing that got me kinda annoyed was the teleportation in the books. For some reason, every wizard (powerful or weak) suffered from "teleportation distortion". I've, for some reason, never heard of this happening or have such an emphasis in other FR stories. From phaerrims to Chosens of Mystra, we see them "suffer" from this and pay big consequences for it. The side effects of teleportation shouldn't be this great, should it? However, in other books you read about wizards teleporting from one side of the Realms to another as if stepping into another room.
Good point. It's another example of how the white hats were given every disadvantage and the bad guys got every advantage... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 01:21:30
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| Well don't forget Wooly that the Shades were new,and they were here to stay.That can quite possibly the reason that the white hats were acting so stupid.The white hats weren't going to win.Overall I liked the trilogy.I do like that there was some major players in it.I've always liked that.There was some major destruction,which I can go either way on.This is definitely not my favorite trilogy though. |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 03:00:29
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quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
Well don't forget Wooly that the Shades were new,and they were here to stay.That can quite possibly the reason that the white hats were acting so stupid.The white hats weren't going to win.
I can dig that the white hats weren't going to win. That doesn't mean that a normally intelligent group of folks should suddenly turn into morons. The bad guys could have still outmaneuvered or outplanned the good guys without the white hats all becoming a bunch of Joey Tribiani's.*
(Dumb guy on the TV show Friends, for those who don't catch the reference) |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 Mar 2005 03:05:03 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 05:47:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
Well don't forget Wooly that the Shades were new,and they were here to stay.That can quite possibly the reason that the white hats were acting so stupid.The white hats weren't going to win.
I can dig that the white hats weren't going to win. That doesn't mean that a normally intelligent group of folks should suddenly turn into morons. The bad guys could have still outmaneuvered or outplanned the good guys without the white hats all becoming a bunch of Joey Tribiani's.*
I agree--if you have to make your protagonists act like idiots and act out of character for the sake of the plot, something is very wrong with the writing. That kind of plot is rightly called an "idiot plot", and is sloppy work on the author's part. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 06:23:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I agree--if you have to make your protagonists act like idiots and act out of character for the sake of the plot, something is very wrong with the writing. That kind of plot is rightly called an "idiot plot", and is sloppy work on the author's part.
Sounds like the last published WOTSQ novel to this scribe. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 06:56:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I can dig that the white hats weren't going to win. That doesn't mean that a normally intelligent group of folks should suddenly turn into morons. The bad guys could have still outmaneuvered or outplanned the good guys without the white hats all becoming a bunch of Joey Tribiani's.*
I don't know if that's better or worse than "The heroes are all idiots anyway, so the villains must be even bigger idiots in order for the heroes to win." Either way, it does seem to be a depressingly common occurrence in fantasy. |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2005 : 17:58:37
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| I am tryng to go on memory here.I can vaguely recall the mention of the Shadovar in an early realms novel.I am talking about before this trilogy.I cant recall the name of the novel.I was thinking the Cormyr series,but that was the Ghazneth's.If I recall,they were hunting someone,or something.Also that there were only a few of them alive.Does this sound familiar to anyone? |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2005 : 18:21:53
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quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
I am tryng to go on memory here.I can vaguely recall the mention of the Shadovar in an early realms novel.I am talking about before this trilogy.I cant recall the name of the novel.I was thinking the Cormyr series,but that was the Ghazneth's.If I recall,they were hunting someone,or something.Also that there were only a few of them alive.Does this sound familiar to anyone?
Are you thinking of the shadevari from Curse of the Shadow Mage and Crypt of the Shadowking?
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2005 : 20:13:23
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| Yes Eric,I am.....are they all one and the same????? |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2005 : 20:53:30
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quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
Yes Eric,I am.....are they all one and the same?????
No. :) The shadevari are from the dawn of Realmspace and they are whole different race. They were stated in Villian's Lorebook. The Shadavor, or whowever it's spelled, are residents of the Shade Enclave of Netheril. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Shadovar Series
