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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 00:02:38
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Mat Smiths latest "Whats coming up article has Champions of Ruin coming out in May (it had previously been listed for August!)
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050303a
Helps when I include the link
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 04 Mar 2005 00:18:27
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 03:15:10
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And if you click on the link provided in that blurb, and go to the Champions of Ruin description page, it still lists it as coming out in August. Curiouser and curiouser...
Gods, I hate to admit it, but I'll likely pick up that Races of Eberron book, too (off of eBay, of course -- gotta save the bucks for Realms stuff!  ). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 04 Mar 2005 03:16:14 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 03:20:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
but I'll likely pick up that Races of Eberron book, too (off of eBay, of course -- gotta save the bucks for Realms stuff! ).
Alaundo! Alaundo! Wollys buying non realms material again!!!!
And he said a dirty word to! |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 04:50:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Gods, I hate to admit it, but I'll likely pick up that Races of Eberron book, too (off of eBay, of course -- gotta save the bucks for Realms stuff! ).
Lose a bet  |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 05:07:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Gods, I hate to admit it, but I'll likely pick up that Races of Eberron book, too (off of eBay, of course -- gotta save the bucks for Realms stuff! ).
And you call yourself a Great Reader. Well, at least we know what you've been reading now ... For shame! 
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 04 Mar 2005 05:08:39 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 05:10:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Mat Smiths latest "Whats coming up article has Champions of Ruin coming out in May (it had previously been listed for August!)
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050303a
Helps when I include the link
Well, I know that Eric had finished his small contribution to Champions well before his City of Splendors stuff, so that really isn't surprising - if it is coming out in May, I'll be thrilled. You can never have enough FR stuff. Also, unlike LEoF, I've only seen a tiny bit of this so it will all be new and wonderful for me.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 06:10:46
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| Lurue's Horn! You make one little comment... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 04 Mar 2005 06:11:24 |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 07:36:29
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Nothing wrong with a few new ideas, just as long as the Realmslore keeps on comin'! I'll start to worry when folks here start saying that they have more than enough info about the Forgotten Realms and wish WOTC would quit releasing more information. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 07:41:55
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
Nothing wrong with a few new ideas, just as long as the Realmslore keeps on comin'! I'll start to worry when folks here start saying that they have more than enough info about the Forgotten Realms and wish WOTC would quit releasing more information.
Crazy talk! Only someone who reads a Races of some other world tome would believe such nonesense. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 09:09:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
but I'll likely pick up that Races of Eberron book, too (off of eBay, of course -- gotta save the bucks for Realms stuff! ).
Alaundo! Alaundo! Wollys buying non realms material again!!!!
And he said a dirty word to!
 Why I oughta... |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 10:12:24
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
Nothing wrong with a few new ideas, just as long as the Realmslore keeps on comin'! I'll start to worry when folks here start saying that they have more than enough info about the Forgotten Realms and wish WOTC would quit releasing more information.
Crazy talk! Only someone who reads a Races of some other world tome would believe such nonesense.
I think we need to conduct an Inquisition, I think some of our candlekeep breathren have been corrupted by False settings and they are in need of "Purificiation"
*Casts Mystic Lash* |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Lysander
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 15:23:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
Nothing wrong with a few new ideas, just as long as the Realmslore keeps on comin'! I'll start to worry when folks here start saying that they have more than enough info about the Forgotten Realms and wish WOTC would quit releasing more information.
Crazy talk! Only someone who reads a Races of some other world tome would believe such nonesense.
I think we need to conduct an Inquisition, I think some of our candlekeep breathren have been corrupted by False settings and they are in need of "Purificiation"
*Casts Mystic Lash*
Yer right! all this crazy talk about post Second Edition material. Utter heresy!
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Lysander
Defender of the Second Edition
Moderator, Project Gemengan, Worlds of D&D |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 17:36:30
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Wooly, my friend, you've let yourself down.
As for CoR, I'm still not sold on it so I'll have to wait and see. I'm hoping for some more information soon though, if it's due in May. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 18:43:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
As for CoR, I'm still not sold on it so I'll have to wait and see. I'm hoping for some more information soon though, if it's due in May.
Yeah, I'm still not sold on it either. I'll order it from Amazon, to review it myself. However, I'm suspecting right now that it will be shipped back for a refund after I'm done. I'll pay the $3 in shipping to return it so I can judge the book myself. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 07:42:20
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I'll be buying it - at the very least for Eric's 3 FR NPCs - masterpieces.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 09:18:14
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The biggest thing putting me off buying Champions of Ruin (and for that matter city of Splendors) is the page count cut from 192 to 160 as you can imagine Im not real impressed with WOTC cutting 32 pages out of a book but still charging the same as its 192 page predecessors and if we all buy CoR and CoS then WOtc will conclude that the FR buying public are willing to wear the change.
So in some ways I have to say that Ill be happy if CoS and CoR dont sell as well as LEOF, Serpent Kingdoms and Shining south. Hopefully it will give Wotc a kick in the pants and they'll put the 32 pages back into future FR source books |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 14:41:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
The biggest thing putting me off buying Champions of Ruin (and for that matter city of Splendors) is the page count cut from 192 to 160 as you can imagine Im not real impressed with WOTC cutting 32 pages out of a book but still charging the same as its 192 page predecessors and if we all buy CoR and CoS then WOtc will conclude that the FR buying public are willing to wear the change.
So in some ways I have to say that Ill be happy if CoS and CoR dont sell as well as LEOF, Serpent Kingdoms and Shining south. Hopefully it will give Wotc a kick in the pants and they'll put the 32 pages back into future FR source books
Can't disagree with you on that one, 32 pages is one sixth a book and they tend to have enough trouble cramming things into them as it is. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 00:28:52
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Think of it this way
If WOTC produce 4 Realms source books a year
Then we get 768 pages of Realms goodness a year (4x192=768)
With the new books we only get 640 pages and STILL pay the same price as if we had bought 4 192 page FR books |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 00:52:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Think of it this way
If WOTC produce 4 Realms source books a year
Then we get 768 pages of Realms goodness a year (4x192=768)
With the new books we only get 640 pages and STILL pay the same price as if we had bought 4 192 page FR books
The lower page count is disappointing, agreed, but I can't justify depriving myself of Realmslore because of it. Yes, it's 32 pages less, but if you don't buy the book, that's 160 pages less. |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 01:17:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Mareka
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Think of it this way
If WOTC produce 4 Realms source books a year
Then we get 768 pages of Realms goodness a year (4x192=768)
With the new books we only get 640 pages and STILL pay the same price as if we had bought 4 192 page FR books
The lower page count is disappointing, agreed, but I can't justify depriving myself of Realmslore because of it. Yes, it's 32 pages less, but if you don't buy the book, that's 160 pages less.
That's the problem though, isn't it. I know I'm going to buy City of Splendours and maybe Champions of Ruin. I imagine Dargoth will probably buy both of them. Therefore what conclusions will WOTC draw from that if we keep buying the books for the same price with reduced content? |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 08:43:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Think of it this way
If WOTC produce 4 Realms source books a year
Then we get 768 pages of Realms goodness a year (4x192=768)
With the new books we only get 640 pages and STILL pay the same price as if we had bought 4 192 page FR books
But what if we get an extra product because they cut 32 pages out of each? Then we get more total pages. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 10:29:53
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quote:
Originally posted by BobROE
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Think of it this way
If WOTC produce 4 Realms source books a year
Then we get 768 pages of Realms goodness a year (4x192=768)
With the new books we only get 640 pages and STILL pay the same price as if we had bought 4 192 page FR books
But what if we get an extra product because they cut 32 pages out of each? Then we get more total pages.
Id say its a rort
Currently we get a book at 20 USD so we spend 80 USD a year for 4 books and get 768 pages
Assuming your right we spend 100 USD and get 800 page (5 books at 160)
We get 32 pages for the cost of 192 page book, that doesnt impress me |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 16:42:06
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That's the wrong way to think of it. I think WOTC is trying hard to keep the price low and affordable but unfortunately at the cost of content. Publishing costs as they are it is becoming nigh impossible to print 192 pages and keep the price below $30 (US). If they maintained the 192 page count they would probably have to charge somewhere between $32-$35 and that is probably a psychological breaking point that would mean dramatically fewer sales.
I regret the necessity that WotC must cut the page count, but I don't begrudge them the right to make a profit and maximize sales. I want WotC to remain fiscally hale and hearty for a long, long time into the future so they can keep putting out quality Realms products for us all to enjoy--and so our favorite Realms writers and freelancers can make a wonderful living sharing their work with us! |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 22:46:17
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| Then Ill expect to see a 32 page web Enhancement when CoR and CoS come out |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 03:23:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
That's the wrong way to think of it. I think WOTC is trying hard to keep the price low and affordable but unfortunately at the cost of content. Publishing costs as they are it is becoming nigh impossible to print 192 pages and keep the price below $30 (US).
Here's a simple solution. Get rid of the ridiculous hardcovers, use cheaper paper, oh.. and drop the stupid color backgrounds. Do THAT and they'll be adding pages to each book instead of editing out pages and we'll get certain USEFUL things, like indexes, in EVERY book.
quote:
I regret the necessity that WotC must cut the page count, but I don't begrudge them the right to make a profit and maximize sales.
I begrudge them. They waste pages on advertisements instead of indexes. They stop producing books in softcover. That alone adds $5 to the price tag.
I hate to say it, but the artsy crap that's been added to the Realms books MAY LOOK GOOD but I don't see Realms books taking any D&D/D20 awards for it. People buy books for the content, not the $2 semigloss paper it's printed on.
Wizards of the Coast is the largest company in the D20 market right? If that's so, why do Campaign Settings published by OTHER companies that have THE SAME 2-3 people working on each book, have twice as many books compared to 3E Realms, they're all cheaper, and some are even all hardcover. I could answer why, but I'd be a broken record, just read the BEGINNING of my post. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 07 Mar 2005 22:00:59 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 06:07:56
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| I agree. I think they're lining their pockets more, not trying to meet any rising publishing expenses. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 06:21:23
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| I have no experience in publishing. The only power I have is as a consumer. If I don't like something, I don't purchase it. That's why I don't have a good many 3.0 and 3.5 FR products. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 22:02:27
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I have no experience in publishing. The only power I have is as a consumer. If I don't like something, I don't purchase it. That's why I don't have a good many 3.0 and 3.5 FR products.
I'm just glad the Complete set it done. Maybe now they can get back to original products only. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 23:44:53
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Well, I for one prefer the hardcovers. They hold up better during serious gaming.
Seriously, I just get tired of the hyping of books that turn out to be just alot of fluff about their 'flavor of the moment'. Case in point - Lost Empires of Faerűn. They could have done without the section on Imaskar and added a ton of spells. |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2005 : 00:58:40
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If it was me I would have done LEOF as a series 1 book each year and focused on 4 Empires in Each book and really hammered the 4.
So say this year we would of had LEOF Volume 1 which would have covered Narfell/Raumathar, Netheril, Jhaamdath and Ammarindar
Next year we get LEOF Volume 2 which details Cormanthyr, Shoon Empire, Imaskar and Eaerlann
Each LEOF book is 192 pages each realm gets 40 pages each with the remaining 32 pages going to crunch ie Spells, Feats PrCs etc
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2005 : 02:02:43
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I like Dargoth's idea.
Melfius, I don't think they've been doing a "flavor of the moment" thing. I don't recall snake-critters being a major flavor, or the lands of the Shining South...
And for me, the "fluff" as you call it (I've been weaned away from that term, I call it "lore") was what was appealing about Lost Empires of Faerűn. Spells? We've already had hundreds of spells in 3.x. But great background material... That's not been as plentiful. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Mar 2005 02:04:31 |
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Unholy mother of Bane! Champions of Ruin in May?!?
