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Decomp
Acolyte
USA
23 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Feb 2005 : 18:16:27
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Albeit a very broad question but I am curious if anyone else considers the Dark elf trilogy to be far superior in all aspects? I whole heartedly agree with almost every member of Candlekeep that Drizzt is an incredibly overused character, but whom else could wield a pair of scimitars like the dark one?
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"so many humans...so few recipes" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2005 : 22:54:13
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| While I do like both trilogies, I prefer the Icewind Dale trilogy, myself. Somehow the Dark Elf trilogy just never grabbed me as readily... Admittedly, this could be because I read Icewind Dale before Dark Elf came out... |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 00:56:22
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With the Dark Elf trilogy, my favorite was Homeland, followed by Exile, followed by Sojourn.
With the Icewind Dale trilogy, my favorite was The Halfling's Gem, followed, by Streams of Silver, followed by The Crystal Shard. So it's hard to say which trilogy I liked better. *shrugs*
I enjoyed the dark elf politics, where all but gone in Sojourn, of course, because that novel is about Drizzt being on the surface. In The Halfling's Gem, I felt that a lot of different things happened, unlike in The Crystal Shard, which in retrospect seemed rather repetitive. To be fair, it's been several years since I read The Crystal Shard, but I remember it was mostly about Drizzt and Wulfgar running around Icewind Dale fighting various beings, and Akar Kessel sitting in his tower gloating as he acquired numerous "caravan girls". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 01:22:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
To be fair, it's been several years since I read The Crystal Shard, but I remember it was mostly about Drizzt and Wulfgar running around Icewind Dale fighting various beings, and Akar Kessel sitting in his tower gloating as he acquired numerous "caravan girls".
That's partially due to the intent of the novel... I don't know if The Crystal Shard was originally intended to be the first book of a trilogy or not, but I do know (from an RAS interview in Dragon) that Drizzt wasn't intended to be the spotlight character. Wulfgar was. Drizzt was a spur-of-the-moment creation RAS thought up when asked "What about Wulfgar's sidekick?"
I think its safe to say that no one expected the sidekick to become one of the Realms' most well-known characters... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 02:03:23
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Drizzt wasn't intended to be the spotlight character. Wulfgar was.
I've heard this before and actually have read the R.A. Salvatore interview but I really don't believe it for a second. If you read Crystal Shard again, it is pretty clear that Drizzt is "the guy" that carries the novel.
When you want to throw in a "sidekick" you don't choose a "good" version of a mysterious evil race who happens to be the toughest character in the story and defeats both arch-villains.
I think it just makes for a better story when somebody can say "wow, I never imagined he would be this popular, he wasn't even supposed to be my main character". I don't buy it.
As for the question in the original post, I prefer Dark Elf Trilogy. I really wasn't a huge fan of Crystal Shard so that's probably why I wasn't a huge fan of Icewind Dale. |
Edited by - Chosen of Bane on 01 Mar 2005 02:08:35 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 03:47:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
quote:
Drizzt wasn't intended to be the spotlight character. Wulfgar was.
I've heard this before and actually have read the R.A. Salvatore interview but I really don't believe it for a second. If you read Crystal Shard again, it is pretty clear that Drizzt is "the guy" that carries the novel.
When you want to throw in a "sidekick" you don't choose a "good" version of a mysterious evil race who happens to be the toughest character in the story and defeats both arch-villains.
I think it just makes for a better story when somebody can say "wow, I never imagined he would be this popular, he wasn't even supposed to be my main character". I don't buy it.
It's what RAS said about his own character, so I tend to believe it. I don't think it makes for a better story that way, either...
I also disagree that Drizzt carried the first book. Any reasonably skilled fighter could have done just as well... Heck, how is Drizzt introduced? By nearly getting killed by a tundra yeti! Yeah, that's great for the "toughest" character -- he gets ambushed by a dumb critter and has to be rescued by a dwarf. A further mark of how he's not the toughest is the fact that Wulfgar was keeping up with him, kill for kill...
Defeating the two arch-villains? He had to have help getting in Cryshal-Tirith, and he couldn't have done it without Regis and Guen... And his victory against Errtu was simply dumb luck.
Look at Icingdeath... Did Drizzt kill it? No, he just distracted it so Wulfgar could get the killing blow. That's a sidekick maneuver if there ever was one...
And why not a good member of an evil race as a sidekick? It's certainly different (or at least, it was back then). Besides, I doubt TSR would have been willing to take a chance on a outcast character like that being the star from the beginning.
RAS says Drizzt was supposed to be a sidekick. Reading The Crystal Shard, I find nothing to contradict this, and plenty to support it. So, I believe what the character's creator says about him. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 03:55:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Decomp
Albeit a very broad question but I am curious if anyone else considers the Dark elf trilogy to be far superior in all aspects?
It's been some time since I read the trilogies. However, I do feel the Dark Elf trilogy was superior.
quote:
I whole heartedly agree with almost every member of Candlekeep that Drizzt is an incredibly overused character,
I don't think "almost every member of Candlekeep" feels that way. The character has quite a number of fans still.
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but whom else could wield a pair of scimitars like the dark one?
Bah! That's not so tough. Now when he starts wielding moonblades, come talk to me. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 01 Mar 2005 03:56:10 |
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Decomp
Acolyte
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 15:09:54
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I still and always will love Drizzt as a character but I am looking forward greatly to a change!
That change will come in the form of RAS new novel...I hope its as great as anticipated! |
"so many humans...so few recipes" |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 18:21:41
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Bah! That's not so tough. Now when he starts wielding moonblades, come talk to me.
Arilyn vs Drizzt. There's a streetfight I'll buy a ticket to see! |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 01 Mar 2005 18:22:05 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 19:54:24
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When I read the Icewind Dale trilogy I was quite uninterested in Drizzt, and I still regard Wulfgar and Bruenor as the main characters of Bob's Realms books.
On these boards, we don't libel people by accusing them of lieing without proof.
In Icewind Dale, Bob was working through his very direct Tolkien influence; the Dark Elf books are better novels technically, but I don't prefer them. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 23:13:17
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Bah! That's not so tough. Now when he starts wielding moonblades, come talk to me.
Arilyn vs Drizzt. There's a streetfight I'll buy a ticket to see!
It wouldn't be much of a fight. Arilyn's moonblade wouldn't let her attack him, and he'd not attack her... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 23:16:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It wouldn't be much of a fight. Arilyn's moonblade wouldn't let her attack him, and he'd not attack her...
Doesn't matter anyway, Artemis could beat both of them with ease. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 23:39:40
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It wouldn't be much of a fight. Arilyn's moonblade wouldn't let her attack him, and he'd not attack her...
Doesn't matter anyway, Artemis could beat both of them with ease.
And Belwar Dissengulp could beat him.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 23:46:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's partially due to the intent of the novel... I don't know if The Crystal Shard was originally intended to be the first book of a trilogy or not, but I do know (from an RAS interview in Dragon) that Drizzt wasn't intended to be the spotlight character. Wulfgar was. Drizzt was a spur-of-the-moment creation RAS thought up when asked "What about Wulfgar's sidekick?"
I think its safe to say that no one expected the sidekick to become one of the Realms' most well-known characters...
Oh, I'm well aware that the novel wasn't written with the intention to focus on Drizzt. That's not what bothered me. I was oversold on the book in general--I heard it hailed as a "modern fantasy masterpiece", but what I actually read didn't quite measure up to such praise. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 23:57:05
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I apologize for causing a little problem with my last post. I didn't really mean to call Salvatore a "liar" I simply think stories evolve over time. I believe that he may have originally intended for Wulfgar to be the star but realized he struck gold with Drizzt and changed the focus of his writing. This is just my theory I realize.
I simply think the whole defeating Errtu and Kessell makes Drizzt the main character. Everyone else here is obviously entitled to their own opinion, that is mine.
Once again I apologize for coming off so harsh in my last post. I tend to be a very opinionated/argumentative person and it tends to show when I don't want it too.
I happen to be a fan of Salvatore's writing (especially all things Entreri) and did not mean for my post to be an attack on him. I just think it makes for a dramatic "wow, who would have thought" type of story to say Drizzt was a "throw-in" character. |
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2005 : 00:37:53
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| It's been a while too since I've read the triologies... I can't seem to remember alot about either storyline so I'd be completely stabbing in the dark when I say that, for me, both had equal standing. I like Drizzt but I'm not a fanatic so the Dark Elf series seemed a little over the top but was interesting, while I thought that the Icewind Dale triology was as entertaining as going to a soccer (some of you call it football) match. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2005 : 01:57:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Look at Icingdeath... Did Drizzt kill it? No, he just distracted it so Wulfgar could get the killing blow. That's a sidekick maneuver if there ever was one...
This is a little thing, really, but I thought the whole Icingdeath situation was a bit cheap. Didn't Wulfgar kill Icingdeath by knocking a giant icicle on the dragon or something? Also, was Wulfgar's main reason for killing the dragon just to prove how tough he was? Again, I don't remember every single detail--I think the book mentions that the dragon was a terror or some sort, but when Wulfgar shows up the dragon was encased in ice, not having provoked any attacks in a long time.
By the way, I'm not one of the many people who seem to dislike Wulfgar. I always liked him, and I actually enjoyed Spine of the World, a book a lot of people say they hated. My problem with the character is that even after the Errtu/alcholism debacle, he is more or less back to being the same person he was--after so many years--which just doesn't seem realistic to me. I know it's fantasy, but I like fantasy that pays attention to human psychology, as well. If you are going to make a person go through 6 years of torture, and then alchoholism, why revert the character to the same person he "always was" when he finds his way out of those dark tunnels? No person is the same person they were 10 years ago.
And spoiler for The Two Swords...
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I was utterly shocked at the lack of response Wulfgar showed to his wife's death. That part of book lowered my opinion of him.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 02 Mar 2005 02:00:48 |
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Decomp
Acolyte
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2005 : 03:16:26
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Spine Of The World was a great book! I thought it was one of his best. |
"so many humans...so few recipes" |
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Decomp
Acolyte
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2005 : 03:23:48
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And as far as a great battle, what about Zhai(Demon Stone) VS. Drizzt? Man, she is one bad ass character! I think she would light him up pretty good!
 <----Me watching the fight...LOL |
"so many humans...so few recipes" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2005 : 05:40:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Decomp
Spine Of The World was a great book! I thought it was one of his best.
And I actually liked the "romance novel" parts of the book, too. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Jon Grey
Acolyte
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 13:56:02
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I'm a fan of the Dark Elf Trilogy, though more for the intrigue and detail to things beyond the battle than the battles themselves. I read Icewind Dale first, and loved all of the characters, but Dark Elf answered so many questions about Drizzt (and the world of the Drow) that I just got myself caught up (and paid for a late night of reading the next day).
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Of all the people that have lied to me/
Bards tend to do it most beautifully. -Rehthan Cotheras, Harper |
Edited by - Jon Grey on 04 Mar 2005 13:57:12 |
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Icewind dale or Dark elf?
