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Smirc
Acolyte
17 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Feb 2005 : 19:21:12
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During the past year or so my players have had their characters inquiring about abandoned or monster infested keeps. I finally mad a session that would both allow them to vanquish a lich and allow most of the party advance in level. After they had defeated my lich (one player died, bet they rezzed him) everyone in the party that could selected the leadership feat. They then proceeded to ask me about craftsmen and mercenaries. Apparently my players are intent on making some kind of mercenary army. I can handle the boring stuff, like craftsmen and hiring mercenaries, but how do I deal with them gathering of followers or the massive battles that they will be fighting with? I have been playing around with a few ideas but would really appreciate it if anyone could offer some book or website that deals with this kind of game.
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"We pity him. We hate him. We fear him—all because there is a little of him in each of us, though we admit it to ourselves only in the darkest part of the night."
—Justarius, Time of the Twins |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2005 : 20:29:36
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| If you want 3rd party books I'd try to find AEG's Mercenaries. It is a 200+ page book about, well, Mercenaries. :) It's packed with a lot of good lore and I use it myself for my mercenary table top based game. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2005 : 23:59:14
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At the WotC download section, there's a sourcebook called Gold and Glory that you can download for free. It's all about mercenary companies and related information.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2005 : 04:12:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Smirc
Apparently my players are intent on making some kind of mercenary army.
Are these players just interested in the "my army attacks that town over there" aspect of being generals? Or are they also interested in the diplomacy aspects of having such a leadership position? |
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Smirc
Acolyte
17 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2005 : 18:28:57
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I have talked to them about that. I guess their long term goal is to make a kingdom. They have always been serious about every aspect of the game and now they want everything to be how it is now. Ive been looking at other rpgs for information on how to calculate massive combat situations. That was a really good suggestion. This has caused another problem to arise, what kind of missions should I make. Shuld I have King X hire the pc's army or... I dunno an invading horde?
My players have already designed their fortress(I was actualy impressed with the detail) and they are working on strategies for fighting off invaders. Anyone here ever had to seige a pc held keep? :) |
"We pity him. We hate him. We fear him—all because there is a little of him in each of us, though we admit it to ourselves only in the darkest part of the night."
—Justarius, Time of the Twins |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2005 : 20:18:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Smirc
I have talked to them about that. I guess their long term goal is to make a kingdom. They have always been serious about every aspect of the game and now they want everything to be how it is now. Ive been looking at other rpgs for information on how to calculate massive combat situations. That was a really good suggestion. This has caused another problem to arise, what kind of missions should I make. Shuld I have King X hire the pc's army or... I dunno an invading horde?
My players have already designed their fortress(I was actualy impressed with the detail) and they are working on strategies for fighting off invaders. Anyone here ever had to seige a pc held keep? :)
Well the book I mentioned above also contains 100 plot hooks that can be used to start adventures. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 06:37:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Smirc
I have talked to them about that. I guess their long term goal is to make a kingdom. They have always been serious about every aspect of the game and now they want everything to be how it is now. Ive been looking at other rpgs for information on how to calculate massive combat situations. That was a really good suggestion. This has caused another problem to arise, what kind of missions should I make. Shuld I have King X hire the pc's army or... I dunno an invading horde?
My players have already designed their fortress(I was actualy impressed with the detail) and they are working on strategies for fighting off invaders. Anyone here ever had to seige a pc held keep? :)
I concur with the suggestions of Mercenaries and For Gold and Glory, but would also suggest AEG's War (twin to Mercenaries), Atlas/Penumbra's Dynasties & Demagogues: The Sourcebook of Political Intrigue (pretty darned self-explanatory!), and possibly any or all of the following three, which I have not read: Mongoose's Sovereign Magic (the magic of those who actually derive their powers from the land, or vice versa, which can lead to a creepy Strahd von Zarovich thing, but that's neither here nor there) AEG's Empire (which I dare assume is a follow-up to the other two I mentioned), and Mongoose's The Free Companies, which is for their Conan RPG, but which, so I have been told, has just about everything a DM needs to know about mercenary companies. Any of those which I don't already own are on my want list, and the only one I feel iffy about is Sovereign Magic.
One volume which is essential for the micro-managing builder of empires or free companies is Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue. I have a character who is a would-be condottiere, and who is a worshipper of the Red Knight. Since he is not evil he won't allow his troops to "live off the land" (i.e. plunder the peasantry and extort money from the burghers), and since he is a diligent adherent of sound strategic doctrine, he has made sure that his (currently small) troop is as self-sufficient as he can make it: wagons with a portable forge and weapons molds, tuns of wine and cider, three grades of tableware (for everyday mess use, for officer's meetings, and for meeting with potential clients), and so on. What he doesn't have is a lot of soldiers, but those he does have are all uniformly equipped and not likely to go rampaging across the countryside trying to scrape up a spare chicken or two, and drilled daily to make them Fighters, not Warriors.
If you want to slow down your empire-builders, ask them: who is teaching combat feats to their troops? If they are doing it themselves, they won't have time for much else. If not, they'll need a Baron von Steuben or a Jean Martinet, and the recruiting of the right chief of staff could take up several adventures. (The best drill instructor in the world might currently be a prisoner on the notorious Chateuf d'Oof, in the Sea of Raging Hormones. Finding that out might mean travelling to a half dozen different oracles in as many lands, and completeing a couple of quests before they even find out his -- or her -- name.)
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 06:39:19
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| Hmm... didn't WotC just released a new sourcebook called Lords of Battle that deals with wars and large-scale battles? That could be useful. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Lysander
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 12:06:48
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I'm going to run the risk Bit Al might take this the wrong way... but....
Birthright.
(Birthright.Net appears down at the moment for unknown reasons  )
Birthright has rulership rules (the online version had 3.5 conversions for the 2E source material) that might help, and the rules might, with some work, be portable to a FR campaign. I have yet to try, however. |
Lysander
Defender of the Second Edition
Moderator, Project Gemengan, Worlds of D&D |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 12:30:46
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hmm... didn't WotC just released a new sourcebook called Lords of Battle that deals with wars and large-scale battles? That could be useful.
Do you mean Heroes of Battle? |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 12:41:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Lysander
I'm going to run the risk Bit Al might take this the wrong way... but....
Birthright.
(Birthright.Net appears down at the moment for unknown reasons )
Birthright has rulership rules (the online version had 3.5 conversions for the 2E source material) that might help, and the rules might, with some work, be portable to a FR campaign. I have yet to try, however.
Well met
Oh worry not, Lysander. 'tis all for the greater good  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 21:58:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Smirc
During the past year or so my players have had their characters inquiring about abandoned or monster infested keeps. I finally mad a session that would both allow them to vanquish a lich and allow most of the party advance in level. After they had defeated my lich (one player died, bet they rezzed him) everyone in the party that could selected the leadership feat. They then proceeded to ask me about craftsmen and mercenaries. Apparently my players are intent on making some kind of mercenary army. I can handle the boring stuff, like craftsmen and hiring mercenaries, but how do I deal with them gathering of followers or the massive battles that they will be fighting with? I have been playing around with a few ideas but would really appreciate it if anyone could offer some book or website that deals with this kind of game.
Heroes of Battle would be perfect for the type of battles you would be running, plus there's wuite a bit of Leadership based feats, rules, etc... |
War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
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Check out my custom action figures, hand-painted miniatures, gaming products, and other stuff on eBay.
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2005 : 00:08:46
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hmm... didn't WotC just released a new sourcebook called Lords of Battle that deals with wars and large-scale battles? That could be useful.
Do you mean Heroes of Battle?
Yes, that was the one. Thanks, Sirius. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2005 : 13:18:24
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quote:
I'm going to run the risk Bit Al might take this the wrong way... but....
Birthright.
(Birthright.Net appears down at the moment for unknown reasons )
Birthright has rulership rules (the online version had 3.5 conversions for the 2E source material) that might help, and the rules might, with some work, be portable to a FR campaign. I have yet to try, however.
A really good idea! And this put my mind to spin a little... Consider this:
Tiamat, the Nemesis of the Gods, want to strike hard against one faerunian god. She knows that she has no power (yet) to do this, and she is very cautious. By no way she wants to make deals with the other "bad" gods, so she start to search in the other crystal spheres, and came to discover Cerillia and The Gorgon. She perceivres the great oportunity at hand, and make a deal with The Gorgon. By the power of Tiamat, The Gorgon appear to the minotaurs of Faerun proclaming to be his "god", and start to create a powerful army. Very trusted regiments of orogs (both from Cerillia and from the Underdark - see Races of Faerun) organize the troops. Tiamat give clerical powers to the minotaurs clerics and shamans that start to pray from his "horned extraplanar god", and in little time an horrible army is ready to start a havoc in the Realms. Maybe the target can be... let´s se.. Hoar... maybe Garagos, I don´t know who will be the best one...
Well, that mercenary army will have a great headache (and some memorable war tales to tell) |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2005 : 15:13:30
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I did a lot of search into this a year or two ago. I found two good products out there that I couldn't decide on getting or not. I ended up not getting either and didn't need it as my campaign didn't go that way.
FIELDS OF BLOOD
http://www.edenstudios.net/odyssey/7005.html
This book was much anticipated and slow to come out. When it finally did, it was off the shelves before I could order one. I hear that they have reprinted them and are available for sale.
This book deals not just with warfare, but also with running a kingdom. It has all sorts of rules for developing various parts of the kingdom and also for spying on your neighbors. I was looking forward to this book for the multi-purpose element.
The one complaint that I have heard about the book is that the system is based on 12 mile hexes as parcels of land. This is the starting kingdom. Most people wanted to use the rules for larger kingdoms and were having problems finding the right ratio to upgrad it all (100 miles or 20 miles, etc). This, though, might be just right for your players.
CRY HAVOC
http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_Havoc
This book is by the esteemed Monte Cook who is one of the creators of 3E. This means that the rule system is very tight, blends well with other existing rules, and also makes sense in the new d20 mentality. I have looked over this book and found it does exactly what it sets out to.
What does it set out to do? It is to allow for large scale military unites. Each figure on the map turns into a unit of 5-50 soliders. You take an average of all the figures in the unit to come up with the unit stats. It allows translating monsters and other non-conventional creatures to easily fit into the system.
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In conclusion, either system looked great and were full of PrC's, feats, and other rules to go with mass battle. It all looked cool enough for me to want to start a military campaign.
Hope it helps... |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2005 : 15:49:40
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Yes, that was the one. Thanks, Sirius.
You're welcome and for those interested a thread to that product can be found here. |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2005 : 16:25:42
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| That product, though, doesn't actually have rules for mass combat. Unfortunatly. |
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My players want to be generals
