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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Feb 2005 : 21:01:57
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Has anyone done a conversion of specialty priests to prestige classes, either writing their own or adapting the Wizard's ones? I'm currently trying to assign prestige classes to faiths and orders (monks and paladins too) using the 'Complete' series and T. Costas' work. Just wondering if anyone else has done this and if they had suggestions.
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Edited by - Mareka on 18 Feb 2005 18:52:02
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2005 : 23:51:19
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| I can offer some advice. In the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book at the start with the class listings, there is a list of Paladin Orders (of about 6 or 7 deities) and Monk Orders (such as of the Long Death, Old Order, Shining Hand). |
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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2005 : 18:50:51
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Thanks Kaladorm.(How's your pbem going BTW?)
What I'm trying to do, though, is use prestige classes to emulate the old specialty priests from the 2e Faiths and Avatars, Demihuman Deities and Powers and Pantheons. I'd like to adapt many of the classes in the Complete Divine book and other sources to the Realms and have started with the ones geared toward clerics.
Has anyone done this yet? Should I just post a list for feedback? |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2005 : 22:29:28
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Looked through some of the old 2E books available and I can't find either of the ones you mentioned I'm afraid (though I know of them) so I can't really offer much advice.
Are you looking for inspiration in terms of creating abilities that define the prestige class, or help with balancing the mechanics of them?
I'm not familiar with the book like I say, perhaps if you could give me an example of one of the specialty priests I could give a hand or example of that one.
Sorry, wish I could be more help but I don't quite know what it is you have to work with. If you need help with balancing or converting traits of 2E classes into similar ones in 3rd ed I'm happy to lend a hand there.
(pbem is about to open hehe, check the adventuring forums in about 10min  ) |
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green knight
Seeker
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2005 : 23:18:05
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Greetings,
Actually Dragon magazine was running a series of articles with this thought in mind a while back. I dont have them with me but if I have time later I will try and look them up and list the ones they did. They actually simulated some 2nd ed. specialty priests by multiclassing in various combinations, which would work for some specialty priests but not for all of them. BTW they were Realms specific Dieties.
Green Knight |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2005 : 06:32:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Mareka
Has anyone done a conversion of specialty priests to prestige classes, either writing their own or adapting the Wizard's ones? I'm currently trying to assign prestige classes to faiths and orders (monks and paladins too) using the 'Complete' series and T. Costas' work. Just wondering if anyone else has done this and if they had suggestions.
I did one of them-the Icemaiden of Auril awhile back. It's here, but will need to be updated if you're using content from the Player's Guide to Faerun or Frostburn. I've got a list of the changes that need to be made(and I will process and send an updated copy to Alaundo soon, I swear)!
In 3e, though, the concept of being specially attached to a priesthood is conceptualized by the Acolyte feats and specialty priest PrCs. It works-you've just got to be slightly flexible with it. |
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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2005 : 08:35:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
I did one of them-the Icemaiden of Auril awhile back. It's here, but will need to be updated if you're using content from the Player's Guide to Faerun or Frostburn. I've got a list of the changes that need to be made(and I will process and send an updated copy to Alaundo soon, I swear)!
In 3e, though, the concept of being specially attached to a priesthood is conceptualized by the Acolyte feats and specialty priest PrCs. It works-you've just got to be slightly flexible with it.
That's a nice class and it is the kind of thing I'm looking for.
There are a lot of published PrCs designed with clerics or druids in mind, though not Realms specific. Some of those could be used for Faerun's deites, it's just a matter of matching them up and making any appropriate changes. Although it may be easier to build them from scratch. |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2005 : 12:32:49
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The 'Initiate of' feats in the players guide to faerun would be good to look at.
They add an ability and a fer new spells for clerics (and sometimes druids, paladins and rangers) that worhsip a certain Deity |
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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2005 : 05:27:26
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| Yes, the initiate feats work well and it's easy to make more as needed. It just bothers me that some faiths have prestige classes and some don't. It seems incomplete somehow. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2005 : 21:13:18
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| You probably know this, but just in case, there are all the PrCs in official 3E/3.5E FR products, FR-related PrCs that have appeared in Dragon, the ones in the file I posted in Eric Boyd's website, and then there is a lengthy board at the WotC messageboards dedicated to fan-created FR PrCs. |
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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2005 : 21:44:36
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
You probably know this, but just in case, there are all the PrCs in official 3E/3.5E FR products, FR-related PrCs that have appeared in Dragon, the ones in the file I posted in Eric Boyd's website, and then there is a lengthy board at the WotC messageboards dedicated to fan-created FR PrCs.
Thanks.
I loved your PrCs, BTW. It's a very handy document. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2005 : 20:45:13
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| Thanks. Glad you liked them. |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2005 : 06:46:05
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I keep telling myself that one day I will sit down and redo a priest core class for each and every deity out there. Each with it's own specific calling and powers that relate directly to the deity's spheres of influence, rather than just giving them generic domain powers. After all, I can't see why my cleric of Erevan Ilesere would ever even learn to use full plate and a heavy shield. Sure, I'm sure some do, but they are likely the exception (bought the feat) rather than the rule.
However, that in an amazingly lengthy task. And, likely to be very difficult to balance. And would also probably require access to "Faiths and Pantheons; the revised 900 page edition, complete with rituals, holidays and detailed duties of the priesthood. Avatar stat free!"
Since this book doesn't exist, I'll have to guess (Assuming I ever get around to it).
I suggest someone ask Ed Greenwood to set up a paypal account, and we all give what we can; $5, $10, etc in exchange for a real and detailed look at the gods of the realms. Money in his pocket. ^_^ (okay, I know, he can't, but I can dream right? FR is the only world where I desperately LOVE playing clerics.)
*ramble/rant off*
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2005 : 15:31:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
I keep telling myself that one day I will sit down and redo a priest core class for each and every deity out there. Each with it's own specific calling and powers that relate directly to the deity's spheres of influence, rather than just giving them generic domain powers. After all, I can't see why my cleric of Erevan Ilesere would ever even learn to use full plate and a heavy shield. Sure, I'm sure some do, but they are likely the exception (bought the feat) rather than the rule.
However, that in an amazingly lengthy task. And, likely to be very difficult to balance. And would also probably require access to "Faiths and Pantheons; the revised 900 page edition, complete with rituals, holidays and detailed duties of the priesthood. Avatar stat free!"
Since this book doesn't exist, I'll have to guess (Assuming I ever get around to it).
I suggest someone ask Ed Greenwood to set up a paypal account, and we all give what we can; $5, $10, etc in exchange for a real and detailed look at the gods of the realms. Money in his pocket. ^_^ (okay, I know, he can't, but I can dream right? FR is the only world where I desperately LOVE playing clerics.)
*ramble/rant off*
Actually, you might want to look into acquiring the three "god books" from second edition: Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities. Those three books have a wealth of lore about the deities of the Realms -- the 3E Faiths & Pantheons is but a pale shadow of those three books.
Those three books are, in my opinion, among the best Realms products we've had in any edition. Most people who have them seem to agree. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2005 : 17:51:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Those three books are, in my opinion, among the best Realms products we've had in any edition. Most people who have them seem to agree.
I'll second this sentiment. If you wish to find the best information about FR deities currently available, those three tomes are the way to go. |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 00:03:05
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I've owned the books above at one point in time, but a combination of hurricanes and jealous ex-girlfriends have caused me to lose them. I didn't see them at the Wizards.com website in the download section either. My FLGS has nothing to offer me as far as these are concerned. (Although they do have a large collection of Skills and Powers books. :p)
I suppose that if I'm serious about putting together such a project, I would start looking at e-bay, but I've never been comfortable with the whole online bidding thing. Then again, after browsing through a number of posts here at Candlekeep, I'm sure that some of the very knowledgeable people here could help me out.
I may just start small, like limiting myself to the elven deities to see how much I can carry the project.
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 00:17:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
I've owned the books above at one point in time, but a combination of hurricanes and jealous ex-girlfriends have caused me to lose them. I didn't see them at the Wizards.com website in the download section either. My FLGS has nothing to offer me as far as these are concerned. (Although they do have a large collection of Skills and Powers books. :p)
I suppose that if I'm serious about putting together such a project, I would start looking at e-bay, but I've never been comfortable with the whole online bidding thing. Then again, after browsing through a number of posts here at Candlekeep, I'm sure that some of the very knowledgeable people here could help me out.
I may just start small, like limiting myself to the elven deities to see how much I can carry the project.
SVGames has two of the three tomes mentioned available for purchase as PDFs. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 00:19:39
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Let's not forget that we've got the cleric prestige classes we have not because the designers thought it was a good idea, but because they thought players wanted prestige classes. Compare the later "Faiths of Faerűn" articles to this, from the first (Dragon #284):quote:
The new D&D game restores the core abilities of the cleric, while giving them the feel of specialty priests through the use of domains. It also allows for a breadth of character customizability through the new multiclassing rules, the addition of feats and skills, and prestige classes. In converting to the new D&D, DMs and players might be tempted to take those specialty priests and transfer them each into a prestige class. Our advice: don't.
Instead, try to use the tools provided by the new system. You're more likely to come out with a more focused and balanced character. Start by looking for the core concept of the specialty priest. Often the FORGOTTEN REALMS specialty priests were clerics with a touch of something else -- a little fighter, some wizards, some rogue, or even some bard.
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Edited by - Faraer on 21 Mar 2005 00:44:07 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 00:32:39
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Im hoping Champions of Ruin will have some Banite PrC Goodness ideally the Knight of the Black Gauntlet or a Monk of the Iron Gauntlet PrC |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 01:37:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
I've owned the books above at one point in time, but a combination of hurricanes and jealous ex-girlfriends have caused me to lose them. I didn't see them at the Wizards.com website in the download section either. My FLGS has nothing to offer me as far as these are concerned. (Although they do have a large collection of Skills and Powers books. :p)
Which hurricanes? I'm on the Space Coast -- we caught a tiny piece of Charlie, a little of Ivan, and all of Frances and Jeanne... Luckily, all I lost was $20 of groceries and a whole lot of being comfortable.
quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
I suppose that if I'm serious about putting together such a project, I would start looking at e-bay, but I've never been comfortable with the whole online bidding thing. Then again, after browsing through a number of posts here at Candlekeep, I'm sure that some of the very knowledgeable people here could help me out.
I've done a lot of bidding on eBay. It's relatively easy, and so long as the person you're dealing with has good feedback, it's a good chance you'll get what you want. You can PM me on it, if you want more info.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 02:01:55
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All of my first edition and a smattering of second edition stuff was lost in Andrew here in Miami where I'm at. (In fact, I lost everything but what I was wearing and a copy of Peirs Anthony's 'On a Pale Horse'.) Charlie got all the rest of my stuff due to a convoluted series of events involving a girl I met, me potentially movie to Lake Wales (to be closer to her and my Aunt and Uncle) and said girl getting upset for no reason at all and leaving boxes of my books in an open car port during Hurricane Charlie.
The only second edition stuff I currently own is the DM's high level campaign book and The Complete Book of Elves. (Which I think isn't unbalanced at all *waits for the gasps*)
And thanks for the offer of help with E-bay. However, SiriusBlack's link to SVGames is really fantastic. Less than $5!! Can't beat that with a +2 stick!
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 02:43:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Charlie got all the rest of my stuff due to a convoluted series of events involving a girl I met, me potentially movie to Lake Wales (to be closer to her and my Aunt and Uncle) and said girl getting upset for no reason at all and leaving boxes of my books in an open car port during Hurricane Charlie.
Man your forgiving
If it had been my D&D stuff she'd left out for the Hurricane, The next time a hurricane came through the GIRLFRIEND would have been left out in the open! |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 03:44:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
All of my first edition and a smattering of second edition stuff was lost in Andrew here in Miami where I'm at. (In fact, I lost everything but what I was wearing and a copy of Peirs Anthony's 'On a Pale Horse'.) Charlie got all the rest of my stuff due to a convoluted series of events involving a girl I met, me potentially movie to Lake Wales (to be closer to her and my Aunt and Uncle) and said girl getting upset for no reason at all and leaving boxes of my books in an open car port during Hurricane Charlie.
Man, that draws vacuum... I did evacuate from Frances, and I made a point of taking all of my game stuff with me! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 03:46:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Man your forgiving
If it had been my D&D stuff she'd left out for the Hurricane, The next time a hurricane came through the GIRLFRIEND would have been left out in the open!
Yeah, but the next three hurricanes missed that area. And quite frankly, I hope it's many years before any more hit this state! Last year was not amusing... Especially being without power (or hot water!) for a week... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 04:09:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
SiriusBlack's link to SVGames is really fantastic. Less than $5!! Can't beat that with a +2 stick!
Yes, the offerings from SVGames are quite appealing. Although, I'm curious as to why Faiths and Avatars remains MIA from items that can be purchased via a PDF download. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 04:10:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Man your forgiving
If it had been my D&D stuff she'd left out for the Hurricane, The next time a hurricane came through the GIRLFRIEND would have been left out in the open!
She would be an appropriate sacrifice to Umberlee in my opinion for her transgression. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 04:15:41
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| More like Talos |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 06:36:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
More like Talos
True. Good adjustment. |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 06:41:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yeah, but the next three hurricanes missed that area. And quite frankly, I hope it's many years before any more hit this state! Last year was not amusing... Especially being without power (or hot water!) for a week...
Try six weeks with no roof, walls, any water pressure, and having to eat MRE's. Andrew was a serious pain in the buttocks.
As far as godly vengance, Oghma struck for me. According to what I heard later, a Book of Artifacts (soaking wet for additional weight) apparently went through a window and smashed into a bedside lamp, the shards of which punctured her waterbed, flooding her room. ^_^ Don't piss off the Binder of What is Known.
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Yes, the offerings from SVGames are quite appealing. Although, I'm curious as to why Faiths and Avatars remains MIA from items that can be purchased via a PDF download.
Yes, that is sad. That would be one of more importaint ones to have... |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
Edited by - Jindael on 21 Mar 2005 06:42:45 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 11:22:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Try six weeks with no roof, walls, any water pressure, and having to eat MRE's. Andrew was a serious pain in the buttocks.
Ah, no thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
As far as godly vengance, Oghma struck for me. According to what I heard later, a Book of Artifacts (soaking wet for additional weight) apparently went through a window and smashed into a bedside lamp, the shards of which punctured her waterbed, flooding her room. ^_^ Don't piss off the Binder of What is Known.
Now that's irony!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 18:47:50
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Quote: Let's not forget that we've got the cleric prestige classes we have not because the designers thought it was a good idea, but because they thought players wanted prestige classes. Compare the later "Faiths of Faerűn" articles to this, from the first (Dragon #284): quote: The new D&D game restores the core abilities of the cleric, while giving them the feel of specialty priests through the use of domains. It also allows for a breadth of character customizability through the new multiclassing rules, the addition of feats and skills, and prestige classes. In converting to the new D&D, DMs and players might be tempted to take those specialty priests and transfer them each into a prestige class. Our advice: don't. Instead, try to use the tools provided by the new system. You're more likely to come out with a more focused and balanced character. Start by looking for the core concept of the specialty priest. Often the FORGOTTEN REALMS specialty priests were clerics with a touch of something else -- a little fighter, some wizards, some rogue, or even some bard.
********************8
A: I don't know that I totally agree. While most of the 2E specialty priests convert fine without a PrC, using good selection of domains, feats, skills, and some multiclassing, with so many FR gods, it was inevitable that more than a few just didn't convert that well, especially those that had powers that didn't correspond to existing spells. I think that quote was directed toward the often lack of balance between specialty priests in 2E and the equally inevitable power inflation that occurred through 2E.
More importantly, in the case of clerics, they simply lack the flexibility of say fighters or rogues to cover all the possible types of gods and their portfolios, making PrCs a great opportunity to try and capture more of the faith. (I actually think each cleric should have some more minor customization besides just domains -- perhaps bonus class skills and a bonus skill point each level or bonus feat as well as automatic proficiency in the god's favored weapon -- but balance could get a bit tricky here). In addition, if done properly, PrCs give you a mechanism to build more balance into things. For example, not every cleric PrC needs to start at level 6 and have 10 levels. It could start at level 9 and have only 1 or 3 or whatever levels. |
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Specialty Priests, Prestige Classes
