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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 21:39:31
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Hey Tom
Have you got anymore Faithes of Faerun articles in the works for Dragon?
We havent seen any in a while........ |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 22:21:36
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
More importantly, in the case of clerics, they simply lack the flexibility of say fighters or rogues to cover all the possible types of gods and their portfolios, making PrCs a great opportunity to try and capture more of the faith. (I actually think each cleric should have some more minor customization besides just domains -- perhaps bonus class skills and a bonus skill point each level or bonus feat as well as automatic proficiency in the god's favored weapon -- but balance could get a bit tricky here). In addition, if done properly, PrCs give you a mechanism to build more balance into things. For example, not every cleric PrC needs to start at level 6 and have 10 levels. It could start at level 9 and have only 1 or 3 or whatever levels.
Or, potentially, a PrC (or substitution levels) that starts at level 1, allowing a significant focus on the deities portfolios. Giving a cleric of Mystra additional feats for metamagic and item creation only, and a few more skill points in exchange for a d4 hit die, or giving a cleric of Oghma bardic knowledge in exchange for the heavy and medium armor feats.
Giving any cleric proficiency in their deities favored weapon seems like a no-brainer to me. A cleric of Tyr who takes the Knowledge and Law domains (a more magistrate style cleric) should still be schooled in the use of the Longsword, even though they didn't take the War domain.
And it doesn't have to be just substitutions. A cleric of Milil, for example, should be required to have a few ranks in Perform (Sing), all spells now have a verbal component (as all of their prayers are sung), and they may not take the Silent Spell metamagic feat. Alternatively, as a substitution level, a cleric of Milil gets a bonus to their perform (sing) equal to their level, or perhaps one half their level (cleric level only, although it should stack with bard.) In addition, a cleric of Milil suffers no XP penalties when multiclassing as a bard.
Like most Dietys whose portfolio's don’t cover some form of direct conflict, I don't see cleric's of Milil ever bothering to each their acolytes to wear heavy or medium armor. Yes, the realms are dangerous, but a chain shirt and a rapier (A light armor and Milil's favored weapon) should be more than ample teachings for combat in the clergy of Milil.
Tossing in a granted power aside from those granted from Domains (such as giving a cleric of Milil the Countersong ability, or perhaps Inspire Confidence) would be fair enough to lower their HD to a D6.
Just some ideas as to what I'm shooting at. Clerics in the realms should be as unique as the deity they serve, and I don't feel that Domain powers quite cover the difference.
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 05:19:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
All of my first edition and a smattering of second edition stuff was lost in Andrew here in Miami where I'm at. (In fact, I lost everything but what I was wearing and a copy of Peirs Anthony's 'On a Pale Horse'.) Charlie got all the rest of my stuff due to a convoluted series of events involving a girl I met, me potentially movie to Lake Wales (to be closer to her and my Aunt and Uncle) and said girl getting upset for no reason at all and leaving boxes of my books in an open car port during Hurricane Charlie.
Hmmm. I feel for you. When my husband and I split, he took all the Forgotten Realms stuff we had, which was pretty much everything published at the time. That wouldn't have been so bad if he hadn't immediately given it all away to the girlfriend he moved in with after.
Have you seen Unearthed Arcana? It includes a couple of variant cleric classes. There is a cloistered cleric designed for a more cerebral divine caster (trades martial ability and armor proficiencies for bardic knowledge and the knowledge domain), a divine bard and the druidic avenger, (trades the animal companion and spontaneous casting for a rage ability and fast movement).
That book also includes variant monk fighting styles. This is done similar to substitution levels, trading versatility for a set feat selection, bonus skill and an extra ability at sixth level. Something like this might work for clerics. They could possibly only be proficient in the deities favored weapon and armor, in exchange for a bonus skill and extra ability. |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 05:50:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Mareka
Hmmm. I feel for you. When my husband and I split, he took all the Forgotten Realms stuff we had, which was pretty much everything published at the time. That wouldn't have been so bad if he hadn't immediately given it all away to the girlfriend he moved in with after.
This is why relationships are silly. And Humans. Humans are silly. Need proof? I have two girlfriends now. I learned nothing. I can't take the pebble from the masters hand. (I can brag online though! Muhahah)
quote:
Originally posted by Mareka
Have you seen Unearthed Arcana? It includes a couple of variant cleric classes. There is a cloistered cleric designed for a more cerebral divine caster (trades martial ability and armor proficiencies for bardic knowledge and the knowledge domain), a divine bard and the druidic avenger, (trades the animal companion and spontaneous casting for a rage ability and fast movement).
That book also includes variant monk fighting styles. This is done similar to substitution levels, trading versatility for a set feat selection, bonus skill and an extra ability at sixth level. Something like this might work for clerics. They could possibly only be proficient in the deities favored weapon and armor, in exchange for a bonus skill and extra ability.
I have the book, but it's loaned out. -_- I'll be sure to take a look at that, though. I wasn't aware it was there. Thanks for the tip. Just from what you typed, it looks like very simple soulutions to what I want. *wants book back now*
Well, at least I have something to look forward too. Danke. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2005 : 21:18:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
This is why relationships are silly. And Humans. Humans are silly. Need proof? I have two girlfriends now. I learned nothing. I can't take the pebble from the masters hand. (I can brag online though! Muhahah)
Indeed!
quote:
Well, at least I have something to look forward too. Danke.
You're welcome. Clerics should be more varied. This is something I've been working on for a while now. I'm leaning toward the idea of variant classes. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2005 : 15:16:30
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Dargoth, Dragon is considering a couple articles of mine (and I think will publish), one of which is Realms-related, but not a PrC.
As Dragon has announced they are less interested in PrCs and Realms-specific articles -- which has generally, for good or ill, been my focus and what I like working on.
That said, work on Prestige in the Realms Volume II has begun (though I won't hazard a web publication date -- it'll probably be a few months or more.)
Jindael, I totally agree with your follow-up to my comments on PrCs. |
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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2005 : 23:16:58
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
That said, work on Prestige in the Realms Volume II has begun (though I won't hazard a web publication date -- it'll probably be a few months or more.)
That's good news. Looking foward to it. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2005 : 00:18:47
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Dargoth, Dragon is considering a couple articles of mine (and I think will publish), one of which is Realms-related, but not a PrC.
As Dragon has announced they are less interested in PrCs and Realms-specific articles -- which has generally, for good or ill, been my focus and what I like working on.
That said, work on Prestige in the Realms Volume II has begun (though I won't hazard a web publication date -- it'll probably be a few months or more.)
Jindael, I totally agree with your follow-up to my comments on PrCs.
Excellent
If your taking requests for PITRV2 Id like to add
Knight of the Black Gauntlet
Ice Priest of Auril |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 24 Mar 2005 00:19:24 |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2005 : 01:03:13
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| Hey, Mareka. Do you happen to have the stuff you've worked on easily postable? I'd like to see what you have, or at the very least, what you have assigned to which faith. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2005 : 04:37:25
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Priest details are nice, but what * I * REALLY want is what Ed keeps talking about (and TSR Code of Ethics prevented him from putting into print, right at the beginning): details of the churches and faiths: daily rituals (yes, right down to words of prayers) and special ‘most holy’ days or observances or festivals. Dogma, right down to petty stuff like “thou shalt” and “thou shalt not” details, special underwear - - the works. Plus aims (what secular stuff is the priesthood ‘up to’ or trying to achieve), intrigue (what do priests of the same faith argue about/try to change about their own church/do to each other when they’re trying to be nasty), and outlook: what’s “fun” to a priestess of Shar? A priestess of Ilmater? A priestess of Loviatar? What do they do on their “time off,” if they’re given any?
Game mechanics that say, “Oh, you’re now level X and so can now do the Quivering Forefinger of Holy Harrowing” are all very nice, but I need the churchlore as well to put it in context, or it really isn’t that much different from saying, “you’re a fighter but better than other fighters, because you get special powers and attacks they don’t - - because you put on this holy tabard and claim to serve God X, so you get THIS cool new power at level Y, and this other one at level Z,” and so on.
It doesn’t matter when Ed Greenwood is my DM and we’re playing intensive roleplaying, but I’ve seen too many gamers at conventions who really do play priests as selfish fighters with special powers and a “holy righteous act” (I’ll heal your character, but only if he gives ME that gold cup we just got). Playing a priest should MEAN something; it should shape the character’s entire life, not be something we scribes have to be asking basic questions about.
Here endeth my rant. I have spoken (and the hills echo back the thunder of my wrath). Accordingly, I shall pick up the Sacred Rubber Duckie, step into the waiting sacred bathtub, and give the soap back its box. 
love to all,
THO
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2005 : 04:43:08
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Well Hooded one, If you, Ed and Myself start beating poor Rich Baker and the rest of WOTC management over the head with a wet noodle, maybe we can get them to do a 3ed Prayers of the Faithful
PS: What did you think of the Church of Cyric and Church of Bane write ups in Lords of Darkness? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 24 Mar 2005 04:45:24 |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2005 : 05:20:02
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Priest details are nice, but what * I * REALLY want is what Ed keeps talking about (and TSR Code of Ethics prevented him from putting into print, right at the beginning): details of the churches and faiths: daily rituals (yes, right down to words of prayers) and special ‘most holy’ days or observances or festivals. Dogma, right down to petty stuff like “thou shalt” and “thou shalt not” details, special underwear - - the works. Plus aims (what secular stuff is the priesthood ‘up to’ or trying to achieve), intrigue (what do priests of the same faith argue about/try to change about their own church/do to each other when they’re trying to be nasty), and outlook: what’s “fun” to a priestess of Shar? A priestess of Ilmater? A priestess of Loviatar? What do they do on their “time off,” if they’re given any?
I'd beat a crippled halfling with a rubber hose for that information. And, if Ed Greenwood desperately wants to print it, does that me he has it written up already? Hmm, maybe I should just, like, once a week, post in the "Ask Ed" thread about a particular priesthood's details. *grin* (I'm sure I'm not the first one to think of this…)
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
It doesn’t matter when Ed Greenwood is my DM and we’re playing intensive roleplaying, but I’ve seen too many gamers at conventions who really do play priests as selfish fighters with special powers and a “holy righteous act” (I’ll heal your character, but only if he gives ME that gold cup we just got). Playing a priest should MEAN something; it should shape the character’s entire life, not be something we scribes have to be asking basic questions about.
People seem to meet "That Guy" a lot, the player who makes a priest (usually because the party "needs healing") and then has no clue at all about the religion. I, thankfully, have never met them. (Although I have met his cousins :p)
I LOVE playing clerics. I adore it. So the above is particularly heinous to me. The fun part of playing a priest is being…well, a Priest/ess. I'm not a healing potion on legs, I'm a servant of my god, a representation of their divine will because the will of my god reflects what is in my heart.
And not just for clerics. I've a character in the sidelines that I'm itching to play; a fighter who's mother is a priestess of Selune (and who's father is a "striking figure of an elf, who forgot to tell me his name" according to mom). The character has lived his whole life with Selune, and even tried to be a cleric, but just didn't cut it ("Selune has other plans for you, baby-boy" sayeth mom). However, he is an active participant in his church and faith. He's totally in love with Selune.
But, I end up with "I like the moon!"
Must have more info!!
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Well Hooded one, If you, Ed and Myself start beating poor Rich Baker and the rest of WOTC management over the head with a wet noodle, maybe we can get them to do a 3ed Prayers of the Faithful
*Starts cooking noodles to hand out* ^_^
EDIT: Sorry for this, but I'm still new and I'm allowed to be starstruck. I just replied to a Knight of Myth Drannor! Reading the bit in Spellfire where the Knight's show up and start doing some kung-fu is what made me decide that I wanted to know more about the realms. They just had this…fellowship that was so wonderful. That is STILL to me, the heart of the Realms.
Okay, gushing mode now set to off. Sorry.
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
Edited by - Jindael on 24 Mar 2005 05:30:08 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2005 : 05:25:49
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Priest details are nice, but what * I * REALLY want is what Ed keeps talking about (and TSR Code of Ethics prevented him from putting into print, right at the beginning): details of the churches and faiths: daily rituals (yes, right down to words of prayers) and special ‘most holy’ days or observances or festivals. Dogma, right down to petty stuff like “thou shalt” and “thou shalt not” details, special underwear - - the works. Plus aims (what secular stuff is the priesthood ‘up to’ or trying to achieve), intrigue (what do priests of the same faith argue about/try to change about their own church/do to each other when they’re trying to be nasty), and outlook: what’s “fun” to a priestess of Shar? A priestess of Ilmater? A priestess of Loviatar? What do they do on their “time off,” if they’re given any?
Game mechanics that say, “Oh, you’re now level X and so can now do the Quivering Forefinger of Holy Harrowing” are all very nice, but I need the churchlore as well to put it in context, or it really isn’t that much different from saying, “you’re a fighter but better than other fighters, because you get special powers and attacks they don’t - - because you put on this holy tabard and claim to serve God X, so you get THIS cool new power at level Y, and this other one at level Z,” and so on.
It doesn’t matter when Ed Greenwood is my DM and we’re playing intensive roleplaying, but I’ve seen too many gamers at conventions who really do play priests as selfish fighters with special powers and a “holy righteous act” (I’ll heal your character, but only if he gives ME that gold cup we just got). Playing a priest should MEAN something; it should shape the character’s entire life, not be something we scribes have to be asking basic questions about.
I'd love to see that, too -- especially for Selûne and Lurue. 
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Here endeth my rant. I have spoken (and the hills echo back the thunder of my wrath). Accordingly, I shall pick up the Sacred Rubber Duckie, step into the waiting sacred bathtub, and give the soap back its box.
love to all,
THO
Speaking of things I'd love to see... Need a hand?   |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2005 : 05:35:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd love to see that, too -- especially for Selûne and Lurue.
I second a vote for Selûne, and I'd love to see my Lady of Joy, Lliira. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2005 : 06:34:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd love to see that, too -- especially for Selûne and Lurue.
I second a vote for Selûne, and I'd love to see my Lady of Joy, Lliira.
I would not be suprised if Selunes church gets a write up soon
*looks in Thomas Reids direction* |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2005 : 08:59:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Hey, Mareka. Do you happen to have the stuff you've worked on easily postable? I'd like to see what you have, or at the very least, what you have assigned to which faith.
Unfortunately, most of my notes are scrawled by hand into an old notebook. An example of the type of thing I've done:
AKADI (neutral deity of elemental air, movement, speed, and flying creatures)
Classes: cleric, shugenja (among the tuigan)
Domains: Air, Illusion, Travel, Trickery
Orders:
airwalkers - - - - - Elemental Archon (Faiths and Pantheons)
Knights of the Winds of the Four Quarters - - Divine Champion (Player's Guide to Faerun)
Companions of the Summer Wind - - - - - Mystic Wanderer (Magic of Faerun)
Disciples of the Spring's Breeze - - - - - Mystic Wanderer
Alliance of the Midwinter's Teeth - - - - - Mystic Wanderer
Bonus Skill (add to skill list): Perform (instrument)
If there is anything specific you want to see, let me know.
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2005 : 23:18:11
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I see that we are approaching things from different angles. ^_^ Which is a good thing.
To give you an example of where I'm coming from:
Cleric of Erevan Ilesere.
BAB: Medium
Fortitude: Poor
Reflex: Good
Will: Poor
Hit Die: D6
Skill Points: 4+ int bonus
Class Skills:
Balance, Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, Hide, Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (local), Move Silently, Perform, Profession, Slight of Hand, Spellcraft, Swim, Tumble, Use Rope.
Weapons and Armor:
Proficient in light armor.
Weapons as per rogue.
A Cleric of Erevan Ilesere casts spells as a Favored Soul (Complete Divine), including spells per day, spells known and using Charisma as spells per day. They do not use wisdom to determine how hard the spells are to resist, however. They use charisma for this also. They do not get any of the other benefits of being a Favored Soul. (Weapon focus, energy resistance, etc.)
A Cleric of Erevan Ilesere has no power over undead.
At first level, a cleric of Erevan Ilesere can cast Faerie fire 0+ Cha modifier times per day. (SU, innate ability)
At fifth level, the cleric is always under the effects of a Non-detections spell (DC 15+caster level +cha modifier.) Unlike many innate abilities, the cleric can not suppress this ability. (SU)
I'm sure there needs to be more granted powers and the like (or maybe more skills and skill points?), but I honestly haven't thought of them yet. But, that's the gist of what I'm doing. Making the flavor match the mechanics. Most of the stuff I do have written down (also, like yourself, handwritten) is flavor text for the priesthood. With the removal of specialty priests in 3.x, I've found the cleric to be way to generic, and this is my solution.
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Specialty Priests, Prestige Classes
