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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Feb 2005 : 11:18:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
No maps?  After the complete lack of them in SK, I thought they'd sorted it out with SS. Do they not realise how exceedingly useful maps are?
Indexes are useful, too, but we've not had any of those in a while...  |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2005 : 11:37:56
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The maps are definte MUST
Im almost through the Fall of Netheril chapter and its definately the best chapter so far, it also reveals MUCH
One thing I can say is that LEOF is definately not a free standing product, it makes alot of references to Underdark, Serpent Kinggdoms and Unapproachable east. |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Eremite
Learned Scribe
Singapore
182 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2005 : 13:44:23
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I picked up a copy today in Brisbane for AUD34.95 from Ace Comics on the Queen Street Mall.
I've read the first two chapters, the monster chapter and the sections dealing with Narfell and Raumathar and am really impressed. It's reminded me of why I chose FR as my preferred campaign world when the grey box came out. I love the sense of history and how that history can be used to craft adventures and campaigns with more depth than the average hack'n'slash module (not that there is anything wrong with h'n's all the time).
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edbonny
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2005 : 13:56:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
The maps are definte MUST
Im almost through the Fall of Netheril chapter and its definately the best chapter so far, it also reveals MUCH
One thing I can say is that LEOF is definately not a free standing product, it makes alot of references to Underdark, Serpent Kinggdoms and Unapproachable east.
MAPS: While not a convenient workaround, the free download of the Horde boxset in PDF format from the wizards site has excellent maps of the region where the Imaskari Empire once ruled.
NOT STANDALONE: What do you think of the book not being free standing? It was very important to me to thread the previously published materials throughout this book such as using feats and prestige classes from other sources when writing up NPCs.
- Ed Bonny |
Edited by - edbonny on 09 Feb 2005 14:09:02 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2005 : 14:17:11
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
AUSTRALIA:2
USA: Nil
Make that 5  . Along with Eremite and SacredOne, I just received my copy this afternoon.
Dargoth, where did you get your order from?
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Borch
Acolyte
Germany
21 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2005 : 14:35:08
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As far as maps are concerned, I consider them very important, especially when dealing with the past of Faerűn.
I can live without indices, but not without maps.
I like that LEoF makes extensive use of other published Realms material, both in rules and flavor. Since I own the other books, it does not diminish the book's usefulness for me, although I can see others argueing exactly that.
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Sprich aus der Ferne,
heimliche Welt,
die sich so selten
zu mir gesellt |
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edbonny
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2005 : 14:45:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
God-Kings of the East...<snip>...The author also makes reference to the Sword Mountains which Im assuming should be the Dragonsword Mountains.
A bit of geographical retcon was the cause of this confusion. I was working extensively with FR10 - Old Empires and the map of the Mulhorandi region specifically names that range "the Sword Mountains" (and not Dragonsword Mts.). Of course, it should be labeled the latter as that is how 3e names those mountains.
- Ed |
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Eremite
Learned Scribe
Singapore
182 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2005 : 15:58:52
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quote:
Originally posted by edbonny(snip) NOT STANDALONE: What do you think of the book not being free standing? It was very important to me to thread the previously published materials throughout this book such as using feats and prestige classes from other sources when writing up NPCs.
One of the things I appreciated was the cross-referencing with other FR books. I think it's fair to say that most FR DMs buy everything so the designers may as well throw in some cross-references.
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2005 : 22:56:18
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quote:
Originally posted by edbonny
MAPS: While not a convenient workaround, the free download of the Horde boxset in PDF format from the wizards site has excellent maps of the region where the Imaskari Empire once ruled.
NOT STANDALONE: What do you think of the book not being free standing? It was very important to me to thread the previously published materials throughout this book such as using feats and prestige classes from other sources when writing up NPCs.
- Ed Bonny
As Im a self confessed Realms nut and own all the 3ed (and most of the 1st and 2nd) edition source books its not a problem, and if you have the books what youve done is definately a plus (I particularly like the Fall of Netheril tie to Serpent Kingdoms)
The maps as you can probably guess are a pet peeve, Im hoping that maps where done and where merely cut and we'll see them either in the Web Enhancement or as free download at some point
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2005 : 02:58:09
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Finished
Wounding Spell feat seems a little underwhelming
The Prereqs are another Meta Feat and 4 Skill ranks
A wounding spell takes a spell slot 2 levels higher
However all you get is 1hp of extra damage each round
This means that a 3rd level Wounding Magic missile has the same effect as an "11th level" Wounding Meteor Swarm when it comes to Wounding damage on an Indivdul |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2005 : 10:44:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Realmslore
The web excerpt lists the date for The Sundering as -17600 DR. Is there any more detail on The Sundering in Lost Empires, or an explanation for placing the event at -17600 DR (which clearly contradicts the novel Evermeet)? The timeline event cryptically explains that "The spell reaches both back and forward in the mists of time." What the heck does that mean?
Well, the problem with "Evermeet" is that it contradicts itself. I know where you are coming from Brian, the novel states that Evermeet is created and then Sharlarion becomes Aryvandaar. But the chapter on the Sundering and the chapters before that talk about Ilythiiri and how the dark elves are specifically excluded from the Sundering High magic ceremony. Ilythiir is formed after Aryvandaar as we know, so obviously something had to give.
Putting the Sundering at -17600 DR is interesting because it can be seen as a catalyst to the Ilythiiri getting peeved at their 'treatment' by the other races and probably directly influences their machinations re the War of Three Leaves (-17100 DR). Essentially, the Sundering dated where it has been in Lost Empires can be viewed as the point where the Ilythiiri started to really go 'off' and established the 'them and us' demarkation that triggered the Crown Wars.
I grant you, it could have gone either way and a dating of -25000 DR or so would have been a valid choice also, but hey it's all good.
As for the 'mists of time' thingy, that was Eric's suggestion IIRC. He has this theory (which he applies to the Dawn Cataclysm also) that mega, godly-influenced events (and the Sundering is arguably such an event given the interest of the Seldarine in it) operate at many levels and that they can reach forward and backward through the mortal time stream, leaving us with a 'present' that has been re-constructed from a merging of time streams and realities. Basically, FR quantum mechanics! . Of course, I'm extrapolating from brief e-chats and discussions, but hopefully you get the idea.
If Steven's reading this - it's like when the revamped Legion of Super Heroes comic line in the 90s had the plot thread where Mordru took over the universe because he eradicated the meeting that created the Legion in the first place. When someone went back to that point from Mordru's new 'present' and changed that, all of the 'past' got retrofitted and a new 'present' came into being with the Legion in existence. Boy, I hate time conundrums. But it was a great comic series!
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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edbonny
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2005 : 14:07:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Finished
Wounding Spell feat seems a little underwhelming
The Prereqs are another Meta Feat and 4 Skill ranks
A wounding spell takes a spell slot 2 levels higher
However all you get is 1hp of extra damage each round
This means that a 3rd level Wounding Magic missile has the same effect as an "11th level" Wounding Meteor Swarm when it comes to Wounding damage on an Indivdul
My original concept for the wounding spell (originally named "spell scourge") was to be:
1) Had any one metamagic feat as the only requirement
2) Only to be used on spells with the force descriptor
3) Only require a spell slot 1 level higher
4) Was a prerequisite for the magelord prestige class (instead of the weapon focus feat which seems to have replaced it). The magelords of old were nasty and nasty folk need nasty metamagic IMO.
After I turned my work over, it must have been decided to expand the feat to be compatible with all spells which necessitated the increased spell slot.
- Ed |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2005 : 14:56:12
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Well, the problem with "Evermeet" is that it contradicts itself. I know where you are coming from Brian, the novel states that Evermeet is created and then Sharlarion becomes Aryvandaar. But the chapter on the Sundering and the chapters before that talk about Ilythiiri and how the dark elves are specifically excluded from the Sundering High magic ceremony. Ilythiir is formed after Aryvandaar as we know, so obviously something had to give.(/quote]
Well there can be a reason they were not invited. The time line also indicates " -18000 Some Ilythiiri houses discover Ghaunadaur and begin venerating him in secret. In the centuries that follow, rival Ilythiiri houses turn to other dark deities, such as Lolth." There is no indication of how widespread this worship grew in 400 years, however Houses willing to used more blood thristy and/or Ecil tactics could gain power quicker then the more lawful Houses. It is true that Aryvandaar has a founding date earilier, but I wonder whom where the founders as some lore clearly indicates that most of the Gold and Silver were the last major group of elves to colonise. There certainly could have been advance groups much sooner or other elves could have founded and the gold over time took over.
[quote]
Putting the Sundering at -17600 DR is interesting because it can be seen as a catalyst to the Ilythiiri getting peeved at their 'treatment' by the other races and probably directly influences their machinations re the War of Three Leaves (-17100 DR). Essentially, the Sundering dated where it has been in Lost Empires can be viewed as the point where the Ilythiiri started to really go 'off' and established the 'them and us' demarkation that triggered the Crown Wars.
Being excluded certainly could be a factor I am sure, however there were disagreement before this placement of the Sundering, Orishaar and Ilythiir started to have conflicts about c. -20000 DR (unless this date has been changed). |
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Eremite
Learned Scribe
Singapore
182 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2005 : 15:34:45
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quote:
Originally posted by edbonny (snip) "spell scourge" (snip)
Hmmm, methinks I'll take that original idea and use it.... ;) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2005 : 01:12:36
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Passion is a wonderful thing - especially when it comes to the Realms. I've tried long and hard however to try and channel that passion into positive areas. I'm not always successful - ask Paul Kemp about some of my off the cuff musings on the Novel threads. But the thing is that I was ticked off with your post because sarcasm and petulance (if I can go that far) are a waste of time and energy that can be properly channeled into more positive areas. If your post had been one of disappointment, sans the  , it would have been better received by me. Disappointment, when viewed through the harsh looking glass of the FR creative continuum, is an everpresent bogey man - but one that is easier to understand and respond to.
And no, this thread isn't just for positive comments. I agree with you wholeheartedly there. I'm disappointed that Raumathar got misspelled on the map. I'm also disappointed that "Crownblade" was adopted for the "Ruler's Blade". There are a few typos here and there that confuse a few things (which I'll clarify in due course) and there are synergy problems (due to multiple versions of my North Timeline) betwen this product and some aspects of Serpent Kingdoms.
But all in all, it really is a fine piece of work. When you read it in entirety, I hope you'll feel the same way I do.
I hope so too. I'd rather enjoy a book than not enjoy it, like most people. :)
Sorry for the rolling-eyes, then. I don't mean to come across as nasty. By the way, whatever it's flaws may be, I do like the map...I like getting an actual *vision* of the past, and it's interesting and even a bit poignant to finally see how much more forested the Realms used to be.
And of course, the artwork is splendid--whether the Shrinshee is a moon elf or not, the picture of her is striking. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2005 : 04:38:36
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Another thing needing Errata
Table 2-8 on page 41 Some of the Ancient Deities dont have their alignment Domains
For example Bhaals Lawful evil but he doesnt have the Law domain in the table
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2005 : 04:53:49
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Would really love to have a nice chat with whoever is in charge of distribution for WotC.
Spoke to my local game store (an authorized WotC dealer), in their latest email (dated Feb 7) WotC listed Feb 18 as the release date.
Told one of the owners about Australia and Germany already having copies. So he is going to call and try to get some answers for me when I go to the store to game tomorrow.
I want my copy  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2005 : 05:55:51
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Would really love to have a nice chat with whoever is in charge of distribution for WotC.
Spoke to my local game store (an authorized WotC dealer), in their latest email (dated Feb 7) WotC listed Feb 18 as the release date.
Told one of the owners about Australia and Germany already having copies. So he is going to call and try to get some answers for me when I go to the store to game tomorrow.
I want my copy
Yeah, it is odd that the rest of the world gets a book written and published in the USA about 2 weeks before the USA does...  |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2005 : 13:34:15
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| I bet Wizards employee drop shipping, which is a method of shipping the book to far away places ahead of time so that everyone in theory gets the book at the same time (but in the case of these foreign places aren't holding the book till release date.) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2005 : 13:49:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yeah, it is odd that the rest of the world gets a book written and published in the USA about 2 weeks before the USA does...
Except the UK. I can't even get an answer on when it's due at my local gaming store and Amazon still has it down for 30th March. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2005 : 14:15:08
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
I bet Wizards employee drop shipping, which is a method of shipping the book to far away places ahead of time so that everyone in theory gets the book at the same time (but in the case of these foreign places aren't holding the book till release date.)
Yeah, but from what I've heard in the past, releasing something before its official street date can result in bad mojo for the seller... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2005 : 14:20:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Well met
Hmmmm, it certainly makes a change for other countries to receive the product before the US. Still, lets please keep this scroll to discussions on the content of the tome rather than product distribution
Oops, replied to a comment on the previous page before seeing this one... Apologies, Big Al. |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2005 : 15:11:56
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I haven't seen it yet, but I curious about the dead gods and their uses in a persons campaign. Especially Moander (As I am a Finder Fan).
Thanks. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2005 : 12:54:08
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I picked up my copy a few days ago, and after skimming through much of the book I must say I am impressed.
It is certainly the one of the best 3e FR books (if not *the* best), way up there with LoD and UE. I am certain I will mine this book for adventure hooks and background material way into 4e.
As a BGII fan, am I particullary pleased that the bhaalspawn were mentioned. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2005 : 04:19:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
I haven't seen it yet, but I curious about the dead gods and their uses in a persons campaign. Especially Moander (As I am a Finder Fan).
Thanks.
I haven't read through that section yet, but from what I've skimmed over so far... there are some particulate details.
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2005 : 03:13:13
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All I've had a chance to do thus far is to skim over the book...
But I did, from my skimming, see a couple of nifty bits. One was the fact that 2 Netherese cities managed to avoid falling when Karsus cast his Ultimate Mistake spell. 'Tis a nice bit of detail, and though nothing is formed yet, I feel that this has spawned some potential idea lurking in the back of my mind.
Another thing I liked was that the monsters are mostly (if not entirely) updates of old favorites. I was particularly delighted to see the werecat entry, since an NPC that I'll eventually share here is a werecat (I used the Realms Bestiary, Volume 1, by Eric L. Boyd and Thomas M. Costa, when I designed her). And who doesn't love deepspawn and helmed horrors? 
Some of the illustrations are good, others I just wonder about...
And ooh, all the lovely timelines! I love timelines.
I do wish there had been more info on the dead deities, though.
I must go do some other stuff, so I can immerse myself in this lore!
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 18 Feb 2005 03:14:29 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2005 : 03:19:36
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| I'm just in the crunch chapter so far. But, I am very happy to see Prestige Classes presented in a way that highlights what makes the class unique to the campaign world. I hope this is the format used in all future FR products. |
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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2005 : 03:54:29
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I also just finished reading the crunch chapter. I really like the new expanded descriptions for the prestige classes. It really fits the class into the context of the setting, and helps me visualize how to introduce them into a current campaign. I also hope this format continues in the future. I skimmed over the new spells, and had a quick read of the rules for creating mythals...they seem pretty detailed, and tying them into the Epic Spellcasting mold is a great idea. Nice to see two new Epic seeds included as well.
I'm going to jump into the Crown Wars now...see you all tomorrow. |
"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2005 : 06:23:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Brother Ezra
I also just finished reading the crunch chapter. I really like the new expanded descriptions for the prestige classes. It really fits the class into the context of the setting, and helps me visualize how to introduce them into a current campaign. I also hope this format continues in the future.
Yes, if anyone out there knows who came up with the idea of this format change, please let me know. They deserve a big thank you.
quote:
I'm going to jump into the Crown Wars now...see you all tomorrow.
Light reading. A bunch of elves fought...yada yada yada...bunch of elves died. Next. |
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Lost Empires - Comments & Reviews
