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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 03:28:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
I don't ever think w will find who is truly the most powerful man(or women in Faerun) However we definetly know that there are a select few who will always have an impact on the realms. Due to there power and influence.
How about the most powerful hamster in Faerűn?  |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 01 Mar 2005 03:28:42 |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2005 : 23:07:46
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| Hmmmmm? I'd have to say Boo! but whose to know they are powerful mysterious creatures only I can ponder about. |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2005 : 00:14:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
Hmmmmm? I'd have to say Boo! but whose to know they are powerful mysterious creatures only I can ponder about.
I'd go with Boo also. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Antareana
Seeker
Germany
59 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 22:53:25
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yepyep, definately Boo 
most dangerous, powerful... if we are talking about potential danger(and not just actual one) then there would be some more or less equals at the top of that mountain... and I would call them:
The Simbul (personal power and a whole kingdom behind her)
Halaster (his insane nature alone would be a threat if outside of undermountain)
Khelben (great politician AND great mage)
Telamont
King Zalathorm of Halruaa (never underestimate a true diviner)
King Dragonsbane of Damara (although he would never be a threat)
El (very subtle power)
Tabra the Innkeeper
oh, and Fzoul of course, too. Even if Manshoon might be just more... intriguing
whew.. became a long list  |
It is all just a past and future secret
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 23:16:08
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Doesn't Halaster stop being insane outside the Undermountain? Also, I agree that he is definitely dangerous, but I wonder why being insane would make one more of a threat rather than less of a threat. I'm not trying to argue with you, Antareana, so much as a common fantasy cliche--I just think that to be dangerous and threatening, it's more helpful to be lucid and in touch with the reality. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 02:48:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Doesn't Halaster stop being insane outside the Undermountain? Also, I agree that he is definitely dangerous, but I wonder why being insane would make one more of a threat rather than less of a threat. I'm not trying to argue with you, Antareana, so much as a common fantasy cliche--I just think that to be dangerous and threatening, it's more helpful to be lucid and in touch with the reality.
Yeah, but the insane are harder to predict, which makes opposing them a greater challenge. Further, if you are insane, you are by definition not in your right mind -- so you'll take risks that someone who is in his/her right mind wouldn't take. |
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Alhoon
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 17:17:36
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| Netheril... |
::SLURP:: |
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Gerath Hoan
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 17:32:03
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IMO the most dangerous man in Faerun, until the advent of 3E, was Manshoon during the Manshoon wars... how's about a few dozen clones (or more) of a competent and dangerous archmage rampaging around Faerun killing each other? That's dangerous!!!!
If we're talking most powerful, then that's a different matter. Being powerful and being dangerous are two seperate and very distinct things. At the time when i believe Manshoon to be the most dangerous man in Faerun to life, limb and real estate, Fzoul was arguably more powerful thanks to his machinations with the Church of Xvim.
Right now in Faerun, Shade seems to be a bit of a lame duck. Since the Return of the Archwizards trilogy (which i still haven't read, mind) they've done little in the limelight which can be considered dangerous, though they do have potential (in my campaign however, i ignore Shade, as they're not one of my favourite additions to the Realms. I can be pretty slow in getting used to change though. Heck, i only really started to appreciate Xvim when they brought Bane back!).
I'd also agree that Cyric as a mortal, whatever the source of his success and/or power, was dangerous. He was a godslayer, and you don't get too many mortals who can realistically claim that title.
Still, that's all just my two cents.
GH |
Knight of the Order of the Keen Eye - Granted by Ed Greenwood, 30th January 2005 |
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Antareana
Seeker
Germany
59 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 17:41:12
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That was exactly what I wanted to reply, Wooly
Intelligence and (more or less) insanity are an explosive mixture, while moderately cunning and powerful Persons are far more predictable and more "easy to handle"
don't know whether Hal is insane or not outside of Undermountain, but it would be interesting to know |
It is all just a past and future secret
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 22:29:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Doesn't Halaster stop being insane outside the Undermountain? Also, I agree that he is definitely dangerous, but I wonder why being insane would make one more of a threat rather than less of a threat. I'm not trying to argue with you, Antareana, so much as a common fantasy cliche--I just think that to be dangerous and threatening, it's more helpful to be lucid and in touch with the reality.
Yeah, but the insane are harder to predict, which makes opposing them a greater challenge. Further, if you are insane, you are by definition not in your right mind -- so you'll take risks that someone who is in his/her right mind wouldn't take.
*shakes head* I'm still not sure I buy into the argument that being insane (and I mean psychotic, not the joking colloquism meaning "eccentric") gives one amazing insight, better battle tactics, a sharper mind, or even that it makes one less predictable. What is this argument based on? Actual studies of mental illness, or common cliches about insanity that have plagued fantasy for a long time?
You can be sane and still be cunning enough not to be too predictable, and remember that people who take too many stupid risks don't always survive for very long... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 07 Mar 2005 22:31:28 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 22:53:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Doesn't Halaster stop being insane outside the Undermountain? Also, I agree that he is definitely dangerous, but I wonder why being insane would make one more of a threat rather than less of a threat. I'm not trying to argue with you, Antareana, so much as a common fantasy cliche--I just think that to be dangerous and threatening, it's more helpful to be lucid and in touch with the reality.
Yeah, but the insane are harder to predict, which makes opposing them a greater challenge. Further, if you are insane, you are by definition not in your right mind -- so you'll take risks that someone who is in his/her right mind wouldn't take.
*shakes head* I'm still not sure I buy into the argument that being insane (and I mean psychotic, not the joking colloquism meaning "eccentric") gives one amazing insight, better battle tactics, a sharper mind, or even that it makes one less predictable. What is this argument based on? Actual studies of mental illness, or common cliches about insanity that have plagued fantasy for a long time?
You can be sane and still be cunning enough not to be too predictable, and remember that people who take too many stupid risks don't always survive for very long...
I never said a word about insight, tactics, or anything like that... One of the common conceptions about insanity (and it could be wrong; I've never researched it) is that it makes one do unpredictable things. And it makes sense -- when someone's mind is functioning in a highly abnormal manner, they are not going to do things in a normal manner. Hence, they are unpredictable.
Why does that make someone dangerous? How many tales mention watching an enemy fall into a pattern, and then taking advantage of that pattern? If I remember my history correctly, part of why Patton beat Rommel in WWII was because Patton was familiar with Rommel's tactics and ways of waging war. If someone can determine the next move you're likely to take, they can react to it before you make the move.
And the insane will by definition not look at things the same way sane people will. So they'll not even think about it before taking a risk that you or I would shudder at the thought of. Stupid or not, if someone takes a risk that you won't, it can give them a serious advantage.
I'll grant that people who take too many stupid risks don't always survive for long. But sometimes they do -- either thru dumb luck or thru other means. And we're talking about someone who is very powerful -- he could find himself in a very bad situation and survive simply because of his magic.
So, I say that insanity makes Halaster a very dangerous foe. I'm not saying that he's more dangerous than he would be if he was sane, but he is still quite dangerous. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 23:02:11
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I wasn't trying to argue with you, btw--I'm just interested in knowing the reasons behind considering an insane person to be more dangerous than a sane one. Yes, being predictable is a bad thing, but like I said it's possible to be extremely cunning and hard to figure out, and still be sane.
But I'll grant that the nature of Halaster's insanity has never been well explained, at least to my knowledge. And I would still agree that Halaster would be among the most dangerous people in the Realms, though not moreso than Elminster (he is still my number one pick ). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2005 : 06:15:14
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| Wasn't Halaster cured of his insanity at some point? |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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sabre
Acolyte
Turkey
47 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2005 : 10:20:29
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| Don't forget about the drow if they come to unite sometime... |
sabre |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2005 : 11:22:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
Wasn't Halaster cured of his insanity at some point?
Indeed. Mystra cured him. Sayeth Ed:
quote:
Steven Schend and I pretty well agreed that he was only insane as long as he was in Undermountain, and it seems that ‘the new’ Mystra has freed him from the worst magical effects of its thrall, returning him to sanity. She did NOT make him a Chosen, but instead made a ‘separate peace’ with him, giving him the status of a free-willed agent (from time to time she’ll ask him to do something for her, with new spells or augmented powers as his reward or price, but she will do absolutely nothing to coerce him into service, nor look upon him unfavorably if he refuses).
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 00:49:42
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| I think, at opposite ends of the spectrum, the Simbul might be extreemly dangerous due to her capriciousness, but I think Khelbun has similar dangerous potential due to his constant plotting and manuvering. I love Khelbun as a character . . . but ask the people of Ascalhorn about how dangerous he might be. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 07:23:47
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quote:
Originally posted by sabre
Don't forget about the drow if they come to unite sometime...
Now what could possibly end up causing that race to unite... |
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 15:42:05
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quote:
Originally posted by sabre
Don't forget about the drow if they come to unite sometime...
*shudder* I hope nothing happens on that front. I've had quite enough of drow, what with Salvatore's novels and the WotSQ. More of them would be an overdose. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 16:44:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
quote:
Originally posted by sabre
Don't forget about the drow if they come to unite sometime...
*shudder* I hope nothing happens on that front. I've had quite enough of drow, what with Salvatore's novels and the WotSQ. More of them would be an overdose.
Agreed--how about focusing on some other races for a change? If WotC's new novel policy is "let's focus on new characters and new stories", why not focus on other races for a change, besides drow and elves in general?
And certainly Khelben is dangerous--as I mentioned in previous posts, I think manipulation and farsightedness is ultimately more dangerous than "insanity" or whimsy. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 17:12:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
quote:
Originally posted by sabre
Don't forget about the drow if they come to unite sometime...
*shudder* I hope nothing happens on that front. I've had quite enough of drow, what with Salvatore's novels and the WotSQ. More of them would be an overdose.
Agreed--how about focusing on some other races for a change? If WotC's new novel policy is "let's focus on new characters and new stories", why not focus on other races for a change, besides drow and elves in general?
There's other races? No one ever told me about those! 
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 20:05:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There's other races? No one ever told me about those!
You know, the short, insignificant races you often see used as decorations to remind the reader that humans and elves aren't the only inhabitants of Faerun? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2005 : 00:17:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There's other races? No one ever told me about those!
You know, the short, insignificant races you often see used as decorations to remind the reader that humans and elves aren't the only inhabitants of Faerun?
Oh, yes, them. Well, who in his right mind cares about them? Humans we can relate to. Elves are magical, mysterious and alluring. What more do we need? Unless you like half-size humans. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2005 : 04:36:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
Oh, yes, them. Well, who in his right mind cares about them? Humans we can relate to. Elves are magical, mysterious and alluring.
You forgot sexy. The shorter races just aren't sexy, so they couldn't be protagonists. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2005 : 05:23:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There's other races? No one ever told me about those!
I believe Elaine Cunningham once told of having a similar reaction when WOTC wanted her next novel be not about elves, but humans in Halruaa. Humans? Poor dear, having to write about that freaky race. |
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2005 : 14:12:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
Oh, yes, them. Well, who in his right mind cares about them? Humans we can relate to. Elves are magical, mysterious and alluring.
You forgot sexy. The shorter races just aren't sexy, so they couldn't be protagonists.
Actually, I did consider putting "sexy" instead of "alluring," but finally decided on the latter. But I guess you're right. The novels' core audience (i.e. teenage and adult males) no doubt prefer to read about hot elven or drow women than about some half-size women (some with beards, at that). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2005 : 14:15:28
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There's other races? No one ever told me about those!
I believe Elaine Cunningham once told of having a similar reaction when WOTC wanted her next novel be not about elves, but humans in Halruaa. Humans? Poor dear, having to write about that freaky race.
Why does no one ever write about the hamsters in the Realms? |
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The Most Dangerous Man in Faerun
